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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
The source to PPM?
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Luluc


Joined: 16 Mar 2011
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar 2011, 00:08    Post subject:  The source to PPM?  

Is there any place where I can download the source to Puppy Package Manager? I am considering making my own app to use in place of this atrocity.

Note: I don't want ALL the source to Puppy Linux, just PPM.

Thank you.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4134

PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar 2011, 00:34    Post subject:  

it is a set of bash scripts that use gtkdialog3, thus it is already included. (in /usr/local/petget) the gtkdialog thread already has some mods for it
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3145
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar 2011, 00:46    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
1. The "source" to PPM starts with a script called "petget" and it is in /usr/sbin
That
Quote:
atrocity.
serves me pretty well, but hey, if you have a better answer I`m all ears....
2. A responsible inquiry should include :
What version of Puppy you are running....Kinda hard to know which PPM you are so disgusted with if we dont know that eh???
3. Your basic hardware specs......
And....
WTF it is about the PPM you hate so much, as there are alternatives, but ummmm...you know, we cant direct you to a suitable alternative unless we know why it is an "atrocity"....
Variations of the PPM allow D/Ls from Ubuntu, Slackware, Debian etc....
Amazing stuff....but bound to have a few bugs....
So, like, before you are a "hater", ....Like, howz about being a bit more specific about your complaints...OK????


Whoa, was that me???? Embarassed

"Puppy growls........Grrrrr...."

Edit: "Grrrrr:... Shocked

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Luluc


Joined: 16 Mar 2011
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar 2011, 01:33    Post subject:  

I am running lucid_256.

Repeating the very same comments I made in another topic:


1) The UI is awful. It doesn't adapt well to my screen size, I can't resize/adjust panes properly, just viewing the information is horrible. I can't adjust the width of the columns. Instead, I have to use the HORIZONTAL scroll bar to read the description of the packages. I can't believe there is still people making GUIs like that. It forces me to...

-----------------------> scroll to the right to read a description..
<----------------------- scroll to the left to read package names.

Oh, I think this one interests me! What's the description?

-----------------------> scroll to the right to read the description...
<----------------------- scroll to the left to read more package names...

Oh, another one!

-----------------------> scroll to the right to read the description...
<----------------------- scroll to the left to read package names...

-----------------------> scroll to the right...
<----------------------- scroll to the left...
-----------------------> scroll to the right...
<----------------------- scroll to the left...
-----------------------> scroll to the right...
<----------------------- scroll to the left...

About 45 times. Excruciating.

You must be one of those developers who have a glorious, very large, very hi-res screen and assume that, of course, unquestionably, everyone else in the world has a screen as large as yours. Why wouldn't they? Typical.



2) Problem partially swept under the carpet by the fact that the available information is actually scant. Debian packages/repositories offer a lot more detailed descriptions than that, but PPM won't show them. I feel robbed.

It's not just about leisurely reading a catalog of applications that might interest me. Searching in the description is very useful too. For example, I want a Quake-like terminal. I search for "term" in PPM. None of the five search results match what I want. If the descriptions had been searched, Tilda would have come up.

(BTW: Tilda does not work, due to GTK conflicts. I HATE GTK. I hate GTK and Python. GTK and Python applications fail to run all the time.)

(BTW 2: try searching for "xdsfcvgfv". A red warning will pop up telling you that no match has been found. Try to close that pop-up without reaching for the mouse, just using the keyboard. OBVIOUS lack of basic design considerations.)



3) What's the deal with selecting just 5 repositories in the configuration? Why? Why can't I have a drop-down with 150 repositories if I damn well please? And what's the deal with having to restart PPM after configuration changes? That is pitiful. Just reload the new settings and apply the changes on the fly. No big deal.



4) I can only select and install ONE package at a time?!!! You've got to be kidding. Come on, let me put all the ones I want in a basket and check out just once.



5) I select one package (because there can only be one) and it takes too looooooooong to install. Too many steps and waiting around. And it forces me to click pop-ups all the time. I have to select a mirror for each dependency individually. That is just insane. That is worse than Windows with its infamous Next > Next > Next annoyance! Why does it take so long anyway? The fact that I can only install ONE package at a time makes this whole excruciating experience N times as excruciating, where N = the number of packages I choose to install.



6) I'm pretty sure that bad design is what makes it take so long. Let's see: I added a new repository by myself. Can I have PPM fetch and update just that one repository? Noooo... I have to update each and every damn one. Can I skip one and continue? Noooo... It's all or nothing. The entire process is aborted if I choose not to update any one.

Well, downloading the Packages.bz2 files doesn't take that long. But then PPM wants to convert all that info into its own format. Come on, that's all plain text! It should be a 3 or 4-second sed/awk operation. ZAP! SWOOSH! Instead, it takes as long as 20 minutes printing package names to an Xterm window while I want to drive a stake through my chest. Only bad design could explain why that operation is taking so long.

Oh, BTW, PPM's own repository format. Let's take a look at it: file:///usr/local/petget/README-add-repo.htm

First, I lost count of how many times I had to read that rigmarole just so I could understand it. After several attempts, PPM finally accepted my repository. Let's take a look at that format:

Code:
PKG_DOCS_DISTRO_COMPAT="archive.ubuntu.com|http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-main archive.ubuntu.com|http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-universe archive.ubuntu.com|http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages.bz2|Packages-${DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT}-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-multiverse

(The above is one single line)


Holy spaghetti incident, Batman! If you actually expect people to edit that thing manually in order to add repositories instead of scripting/automating the process for them, then at least have the mercy to impose a more humane format, not a dense, machine-readable string. Just finding the single spaces that are supposed to separate the entries in there was quite a challenge. No Sudoku for me tonight.

I suppose you hate my overall tone, but it's not meant to offend, it's rather meant to give you a very accurate report of my reactions and utter amazement at how bad this PPM application is. It really, really is bad on many levels. Remember that Puppy piggybacks on other distros' repositories. So sometimes some package will not work as expected. So maybe I want to remove it and try another one. But every time I install or remove something I have to put up with a lot of grievance. It eats away too much of my time. I've been very close to giving up on Puppy just because of that. It's really awful.

Sorry, no sweet words for today.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3145
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar 2011, 13:00    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Quote:
You must be one of those developers who have a glorious, very large, very hi-res screen

15" laptop @ 1024x768...

Quote:
I can't adjust the width of the columns. Instead, I have to use the HORIZONTAL scroll bar to read the description of the packages.

I agree...The GUI should allow resizing...

Quote:
Debian packages/repositories offer a lot more detailed descriptions than that, but PPM won't show them. I feel robbed.

But just think of the scrolling you would have to do then... Shocked

You have many very valid complaints, although it seems that "Its not Ubuntu" is the major one....

Remember that with Puppy, when you call something "atrocious", it is someones hard work, done just for the love of Puppy...
No Canonical here....just regular guys doing the best they can...
BTW, feel free to write your own package manager...
Suggest a solution...
But please respect the feelings of the developers...
You get better results that way....

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DPUP5520

Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar 2011, 13:53    Post subject:  

Wow Luluc thats kinda jacked up, instead of politely suggesting some changes and improvements you come in insulting the hard work of the people who are working so hard at this. And if you are able to program/compile your own PPM then why aren't you compiling your own apps from source so you can make them to your liking and taking out anything unneeded instead of taking so many apps straight from the repos. While yes there are some things in Puppy such as the PPM that aren't quite so refined it works just fine and I don't mind having to scroll to read the occasional package that I need to download. The only thing that does kinda bug me and I would politely request that if some easier way could be implemented for adding repos to the PPM, i've tried a few times and have had no luck getting other repos added.
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Dougal


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 2505
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Mar 2011, 17:52    Post subject:  

Quote:
atrocity

I agree with that... 'though zigbert has been trying to make it at least a little more palatable.

Note that the reason that it's a mess is obviously Barry's awful coding but also due to limitations of gtkdialog.
This guy tried to help make things faster but I don't know if his code was used (he wrote some real nice code... but he still is tied to Barry's awful format and in order for it to work you have to use that humongous list that matches a category for each package in Packages.bz2...).

Note also that the annoying format of the Debian filelist is partially responsible as not all the fields are always listed, so if you just want to convert it to something like:
name|requires|suggests|size|location
you can't just go ahead and convert it all, as the dependency fields don't exist for some packages! So it's a little more complicated than it could be (the Fedora database file is 200MB(!!) and yet I can convert it in under 30 seconds on a 900MHz cpu using sed etc.).

Oh and if you think PPM is bad... don't try looking at woof (or the init script).

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