Puppy on old machines

Message

gerry · #1 Post by **gerry** » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 17:37

I run Puppy on a ten-year-old machine, with 600MHz Intel Celeron and 256MB ram. I like to keep up with new developments, but I find that the newest Puppies are characterised by a larger ISO and noticeably slower performance. Has the main stream of Puppy development left old machines behind? New versions that are intended to run quickly on old hardware are all (well, both, ie 214X and TEENpup) out-of-the-mainstream developments by individuals.

I run live cd or frugal install- I suppose I need to try full install?

gerry

James C · #2 Post by **James C** » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 20:30

My test box is a 733 MHz w/256 MB ram (I do have 1 gb swap) with 20 various Puppy installs.I agree, some of the newer,larger versions are a bit slower.Out of the 20 installs 4 or 5 are full and they do seem a little faster......to me at least.
Ttuuxxx's 2.14 seems to be quickest here and then maybe Quirky and the old faithful 4.31.
I think the future plans include a typical 100 mb (or less) Puppy release....novel idea, a Puppy built with Puppy packages.

jemimah · #3 Post by **jemimah** » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 20:32

I think there's at least a few devs that are interested in working on compiling an extremely high performance Puppy from scratch. Both Ttuuxxx and Technosaurus have been talking about it. I too get a kick out of trying to compile stuff for smallest size.

I talked someone though installing Fluppy on a machine of that vintage today and surprisingly, it worked. I don't know what the performance was really like though - since I wasn't there in person.

James C · #4 Post by **James C** » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 20:37

jemimah wrote:I think there's at least a few devs that are interested in working on compiling an extremely high performance Puppy from scratch. Both Ttuuxxx and Technosaurus have been talking about it. I too get a kick out of trying to compile stuff for smallest size.

I talked someone though installing Fluppy on a machine of that vintage today and surprisingly, it worked. I don't know what the performance was really like though - since I wasn't there in person.

I had Fluppy installed (frugal) on the test box and it was certainly usable.In fact I liked it so much I installed it on my main Linux machine.

Stripe · #5 Post by **Stripe** » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 20:48

jemimah wrote:I think there's at least a few devs that are interested in working on compiling an extremely high performance Puppy from scratch. Both Ttuuxxx and Technosaurus have been talking about it. I too get a kick out of trying to compile stuff for smallest size.

I talked someone though installing Fluppy on a machine of that vintage today and surprisingly, it worked. I don't know what the performance was really like though - since I wasn't there in person.

I Too installed Fluppy on my 800mhz AMD 256mb ram (also 1gb swap) and it worked fine, I dont know if full installs work better/quicker, but I prefer them as they boot quicker. The performance difference is not that great between the old box and my 3200+ghz AMD with 1gb ram. (apart from playing flash videos)
Cheers
Stripe

puppyluvr · #6 Post by **puppyluvr** » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 22:07

Hello,
Puppyluvr`s machine specs....

Compaq P3 600mhz upgraded to 384mb pc100 ram.
On board i810 sound and video..
Boot hdd 2 gb Maxtor, w/ 512mb swap partition
Storage hdd 200gb Seagate, USB hdd 250gb..
Ethernet via "Tulip" pci card..
22" acer LCD..

Purchased in 1999 ,used, at an school auction, for $100, including a "shiny new" Win98se CD..(which I still have..LOL)
Machine was built for Win98 and came with a whopping 64mb ram, a dial up 14k modem and a 1gb Hdd...( I couldnt believe it, a whole gigabyte..

..)

Currently, ATM, running Puppy 214x rc-5, Frugal install with Firefox 3.5.12, Opera 10.61, Wine 1.31, Gimp, VLC, and more....

Currently I have Frugal`s of:
Photo Artists Workshop rc-3

MacPup Opera
Lupu 5.1
Browser Linux
BuddaPup Dingo 4.0

And 17 pupsaves....

This old dinosaur has survived lightning, 3 moves, many hdd`s/cdrw`s/dvd`s, a power supply, and massive abuse..
It has outlived 2 desktops and 3 laptops..
It hasnt had a side panel, or a front, for 5 years...

Yet it is currently running the latest browsers, torrents, wine, etc...
Right now I have Facebook, Myspace, Youtube, and this forum open in tabs on Firefox 3.5.12 with no latency. Opera runs even better..I D/L torrents w/ Utorrent via wine, watch movies via Gxine 5.11, VLC, and Mplayer..The Gimp runs great..

Look at my conky stats....
Thousands of landfill computers could be doing this...

Jasper · #7 Post by **Jasper** » Thu 02 Sep 2010, 23:38

Hi again puppyluvr,

I would like to enquire approximately how long does it take to load Firefox from scratch (mine takes 3 to 4 seconds on my desktop delivered on 30th June 1998)?

Also does Firefox restart instantly when it has been minimised to your tray?

I'm still using your ace picture as my desktop background.

My regards

gerry · #8 Post by **gerry** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 07:34

How do you get FF to start that fast? I timed a few starts:

Lucid Puppy 5.1 live cd Firefox- 18sec
Puppy 431 Frugal Seamonkey- 24sec
214Xtop3 live cd Firefox- 20sec

4 or 5 seconds- how do you do that?

gerry

Intel Celeron 600MHz, 256MB ram

gerry · #9 Post by **gerry** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 11:30

Just for a comparison, I woke up my Debian Lenny minimal install....

Debian Lenny minimal, Ice Weasel- 24sec. Same as Puppy 431 SeaMonkey. Now there's a thing.....

gerry

EDIT: footnote for those unfamiliar with Debian ways: Ice Weasel is Firefox with Debian graphics.

gerry · #10 Post by **gerry** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 11:39

My previous post got me thinking. Does running totally in RAM actually get any benefit? With lots of RAM used storing the whole operating system, is the computer slowed down by shortage of ram enough to make up for not loading an application from the hard drive?

gerry

gerry · #11 Post by **gerry** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 13:53

I just found my old Puppy 214R cd. Seamonkey starts in 16secs, the fastest so far. However, I think this is all down to two (well, one really) things: the more recent the software, both kernel and applications, the more resource hungry it is. You can't stem the tide of progress, unless you take the DSL approach and use a really old kernel and old versions of apps. Now there's a challenge for the developers.....

gerry

jemimah · #12 Post by **jemimah** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 19:54

gerry wrote:How do you get FF to start that fast? I timed a few starts:

Lucid Puppy 5.1 live cd Firefox- 18sec
Puppy 431 Frugal Seamonkey- 24sec
214Xtop3 live cd Firefox- 20sec

4 or 5 seconds- how do you do that?

gerry

Intel Celeron 600MHz, 256MB ram

Have you got extensions? Adblock is the worst!

gerry · #13 Post by **gerry** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 20:08

@Jemima- I think you've hit the nail on the head.

gerry

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jemimah · #14 Post by **jemimah** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 21:03

The new pup-advert-blocker that sc0ttman is working on should do the same job without the slowdown.

Jasper · #15 Post by **Jasper** » Fri 03 Sep 2010, 22:59

Dear jemimah, gerry and all,

In case it may be of interest I am using Lucid Puppy 5.1 with Firefox 3.6.8.

I have an ancient desktop running @ 2.0Ghz with 640 MB (SDRAM).

Except if I run an anti virus program or have two versions of Firefox running concurrently my RAM usage rarely exceeds 128 MB. My swap partition is never utilised.

In BIOS I can set a cache between 0 and 64 MB. Mine is set to 64 Mb and it seems to cause major problems if I set it at less than 8MB.

I use the Firefox add-ons:
Adblock Plus 1.2.1
British English Dictionary 1.19
Context Highlight 0.3.3
CookieSafe 3.0.5
Default Full Zoom Level 4.3
Dr.Web anti-virus link checker 1.0.21
Fire Download 1.5.13
Image Zoom 0.4.4
Noscript 2.0.1
ReminderFox 1.9.83
Scrapbook 1.3.7
WOT 20100503

I was using Xubuntu 9.10 and the peculiarities I have noticed are:

(1) In Xubuntu the Windows program Keynote 1.6.5 running in Wine took 20 seconds to load. Using Lucid Puppy 5.1 with a later version of Wine it takes 3 to 4 seconds to load. In W98SE it loads almost instantaneously.

(2) Using Lucid Puppy 5.1 the linux program gnote loads almost instantaneously. In Xubuntu its close relation Tomboy took some 12 seconds to load.

I do not pretend to understand any of this, but I have huge faith in jemimah's ability (+ wide experience with her clients?) and it would be good if gerry could let us know of any time savings as the result of any trials.

My regards

Colonel Panic · #16 Post by **Colonel Panic** » Sun 05 Sep 2010, 17:16

puppyluvr wrote: Hello,
Puppyluvr`s machine specs....

Compaq P3 600mhz upgraded to 384mb pc100 ram.
On board i810 sound and video..
Boot hdd 2 gb Maxtor, w/ 512mb swap partition
Storage hdd 200gb Seagate, USB hdd 250gb..
Ethernet via "Tulip" pci card..
22" acer LCD..

Purchased in 1999 ,used, at an school auction, for $100, including a "shiny new" Win98se CD..(which I still have..LOL)
Machine was built for Win98 and came with a whopping 64mb ram, a dial up 14k modem and a 1gb Hdd...( I couldnt believe it, a whole gigabyte.. ..)

Currently, ATM, running Puppy 214x rc-5, Frugal install with Firefox 3.5.12, Opera 10.61, Wine 1.31, Gimp, VLC, and more....

Currently I have Frugal`s of:
Photo Artists Workshop rc-3
MacPup Opera
Lupu 5.1
Browser Linux
BuddaPup Dingo 4.0

And 17 pupsaves....

This old dinosaur has survived lightning, 3 moves, many hdd`s/cdrw`s/dvd`s, a power supply, and massive abuse..
It has outlived 2 desktops and 3 laptops..
It hasnt had a side panel, or a front, for 5 years...

Yet it is currently running the latest browsers, torrents, wine, etc...
Right now I have Facebook, Myspace, Youtube, and this forum open in tabs on Firefox 3.5.12 with no latency. Opera runs even better..I D/L torrents w/ Utorrent via wine, watch movies via Gxine 5.11, VLC, and Mplayer..The Gimp runs great..]

Look at my conky stats....

Great (and well done for all the effort you've put into developing BuddaPup etc.)

puppyluvr wrote: Thousands of landfill computers could be doing this...

Yep,. agreed (and they should).

#17 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 06 Sep 2010, 08:28

Colonel Panic wrote:
puppyluvr wrote::VLC, and Mplayer..]

Look at my conky stats....
Great (and well done for all the effort you've put into developing BuddaPup etc.)

puppyluvr wrote: Thousands of landfill computers could be doing this...
Yep,. agreed (and they should).

Which VLC and mplayer package are you using ?
Thanks
ttuuxxx

Sage · #18 Post by **Sage** » Mon 06 Sep 2010, 10:00

I suppose I need to try full install?

Yes! Nobody should need to faff around with Frugal, swapping .sfs files, etc. Do a FULL install using 256 mem. then pull out 64 - you don't need it. Try LegacyOS - really nice and you'll have the fastest smoothest browser available.

aai · #19 Post by **aai** » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 17:29

I installed legacyos on an old pentium III (katmai) 61 MB maxtor 90845D4
cache 512 kB frequency 451.07 mHz 86 mode extention
and it works fine

only I cannot mount the cd-drive for playing music cd

my cd-drive= samsung CD-Ror SC-149 F

What can I do to fix it.

walter90 · #20 Post by **walter90** » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 13:53

I run an HP Pavillion 5600ze (2004) with about 450 RAM after boot, no hard drive so I run off flash drives.
I use Puppy 4.2.1
I also use Wine
I installed Firefox the other night and it opens in about 3 seconds.
I run Quake 1, Duke Nukem, Armegatron and others with little latency.
I was using a swap file on another flash drive but I got concerned that I was shortening the life of the drive so I stopped that.
Pretty much my Puppy runs faster than Windoze for most applications.
I sometimes use Mediapup and Macpup Foxy and same situation there.

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Puppy on old machines

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