First Run Dialog for next Lucid Puppy

[Mobeus]

Shinobar,

Could separate entry boxes for monitor resoulution and refresh rate be made? Xorg / xrandr always insists that the only refresh rate for my crt monitors at 1024x768 is 84.9 when it must be 70. The 84.9 setting gives a black screen as it is out of range of my monitors. Manually editing xorg.conf is very risky unless you know what to do. Also Xorgwizard always sets the display to 1280x1024 regardless of what is selected.

Perhaps you could use gtf to output a modeline and insert that into xorg.conf?

[don570]

I found this page to introduce programers to
keyboards
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Extra_Keyboard_Keys

The program xev to allow the study of keyboards is available here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=244431


This page explains how to change one character to another
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 80&t=49008

Does any one know who wrote Mouse/keyboard Wizard?
He would be the man to get for advice on changes to modifier keys.


_____________________________________________________________

[shinobar]

Xorg / xrandr always insists that the only refresh rate for my crt monitors at 1024x768 is 84.9 when it must be 70.

I am not sure but the XorgWizard and the Resolution Changer(xranrshell) may be using the same method.
The xrandr shows available resolutions and the refresh rates for the resolution.
The XorgWizard and the Resolution Changer(xranrshell) takes the lowest frequency from the list for the sake of safety.

Your case, the 84.9 imust be the lowest the xrandr showed.
I don't know why 70 is not shown by the xrandr.
Can be a bug or the limitation of the xrandr or the graphic driver.

Type the command on the virtual terminal(if you are at the Xorg graphic desktop):

Code: Select all

xrandr

[playdayz]

Hi shinobar, the firstrun is looking great and working great. Would you be able to start SNS when firstrun ends? After firstrun does everything that it is going to do then it posts that summary of what it did--at that point it could start SNS, to either inform people that their ethernet was working or give them a chance to start their wireless. I find that I miss that when luci-232 is booting. Thanks.

[Mobeus]

Shinobar,

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I suggest that the First Run Dialog have a means for the user to specify the refresh rate they want.

I suggested gtf as a means to take the users desired resolution and refresh setting and generate the modeline for xorg.conf to set the display correctly for both resolution and refresh.

Reasons:
Xorgwizard does not always work for setting the correct resolution or refresh rate.
Xrandr does not always determine the correct refresh rate.
Quite a few users complain about black screens when trying to set their display.

This is just a request. It never hurts to ask

Edit: This is from luci-232 pfix=ram. The First Run Dialog only offers the first column of refresh rates.

Code: Select all

# xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1280 x 1024, maximum 2048 x 2048
VGA1 connected 1280x1024+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 352mm x 264mm
   1280x1024      75.0*+   75.0*    60.0  
   1600x1200      65.0     60.0  
   1680x1050      74.9     69.9     60.0  
   1600x1024      60.2  
   1400x1050      74.9     74.8     70.0     60.0     60.0  
   1440x900       84.8     75.0     59.9  
   1280x960       60.0  
   1360x768       60.0     59.8  
   1280x800       84.9     74.9     59.8  
   1152x864       85.1     85.0     75.0     75.0     70.0     60.0  
   1280x768       84.8     74.9     59.9  
   1024x768       85.0     85.0     75.1     75.0     70.1     60.0  
   832x624        74.6  
   800x600        85.1     85.1     72.2     75.0     60.3     56.2  
   848x480        60.0  
   640x480        85.0     75.0     72.8     75.0     60.0     59.9     59.9  
   720x400        85.0     70.1  
   640x400        85.1  
   640x350        85.1  
# 

[bigpup]

Xorg / xrandr always insists that the only refresh rate for my crt monitors at 1024x768 is 84.9 when it must be 70.

I am not sure but the XorgWizard and the Resolution Changer(xranrshell) may be using the same method.
The xrandr shows available resolutions and the refresh rates for the resolution.
The XorgWizard and the Resolution Changer(xranrshell) takes the lowest frequency from the list for the sake of safety.

Your case, the 84.9 imust be the lowest the xrandr showed.
I don't know why 70 is not shown by the xrandr.
Can be a bug or the limitation of the xrandr or the graphic driver.

Type the command on the virtual terminal(if you are at the Xorg graphic desktop):

Code: Select all

xrandr

This shows why there needs to be a refresh rate adjustment option along with resolution adjustment. The resolution choices have a set refresh rate. If I use some of the resolution choices, the refresh rate that goes along with it, will not be compatible with my monitor and I will get the Black Screen Of Death.
Having a resolution setting with only the lowest refresh rate does noy make it the best refresh rate for that resolution. From this First Run Dialog Program-
Example;
1024X768 84.9HZ
1024X768 57HZ
1280X1024 50HZ
800X600 67HZ
640X480 78HZ

Do any of these look like good refresh rates to you?

My monitors best refresh rate is 60HZ or 75HZ for any resolution. Do not see it in any choice given for a resolution setting.

[shinobar]

Thanks, Mobeus and bigpup.
Sollved my long time question!

The XorgWizard and the Resolution Changer(xranrshell) takes the lowest frequency from the list for the sake of safety.

I thought so, and maybe Barry thought so.
He like to take the lowest, but the first column is not always the lowest.
My xrandr(Nvidia propriety driver) is the first column is the lowest, but Mobeus case contrary, the last column is the lowest.

Code: Select all

# xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 240, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 1920 x 1080
default connected 1920x1080+0+0 0mm x 0mm
   1920x1080      50.0* 
   1680x1050      51.0  
   1600x1024      52.0  
   1440x900       53.0  
   1400x1050      54.0     55.0  
   1280x1024      56.0     57.0  
   1280x960       58.0  
   1280x800       59.0  
   1152x864       60.0  
   1024x768       61.0     62.0     63.0  
   896x672        64.0  
   832x624        65.0  
   800x600        66.0     67.0     68.0     69.0     70.0     71.0  
   800x512        72.0  
   700x525        73.0     74.0  
   640x512        75.0     76.0  
   640x480        77.0     78.0     79.0     80.0     81.0  
   576x432        82.0  
   512x384        83.0     84.0     85.0  
   416x312        86.0  
   400x300        87.0     88.0     89.0     90.0  
   320x240        91.0     92.0     93.0 

OK, it is the issue of Barry's woof, but i can manage it by checking which is the lowest, first column or the last.
It may be enough, i suppose. Isn't it?

[bigpup]

The point is, the lowest refresh rate is not a good refresh rate for my monitor and I would say not for anyone else. The ideal thing for me, is to set a resolution to say 1280X1024 and then set the refresh rate to 60HZ. I can not use the resolution settings offered by this "First Run Dialog". Most of them will Black Screen of Death my monitor because of their locked in refresh rate.
Look at what is in the post above.
1280X1024 @ 56HZ or 57HZ
My monitor would spit parts on that setting!

It runs all day long on 1280X1024 60HZ as recommended by the manufacturer.

[shinobar]

[1024X768 84.9HZ
1024X768 57HZ
1280X1024 50HZ
800X600 67HZ
640X480 78HZ

Do any of these look like good refresh rates to you?

My monitors best refresh rate is 60HZ or 75HZ for any resolution. Do not see it in any choice given for a resolution setting.

What happens with 1024X768 57HZ in your case?
Black screen? Or another problem?

[bigpup]

What happens with 1024X768 57HZ in your case?
Black screen? Or another problem?

That one will give me a desktop screen, but it is still not good for my monitor.
The fonts do not look clear, does not look good.
1280X1024 60HZ is the native resolution.

Another choice is 800X600 67HZ. My monitor should be able to work at that resolution. It is a setting shown in the manual.
Black screen of death if I use.

1280x1024 50 HZ setting will work and give me an OK desktop, but again not the best refresh rate. Needs to be 60HZ

From monitors owners manual:
Native resolution for best setting 1280X1024 @ 60HZ
Settings available:
720X400 @70HZ
640X480@ 60HZ or 72HZ or 75HZ
800x600 @ 60HZ or 72HZ or 75HZ
1024X768 @ 60HZ or 70HZ or75HZ
1280X1024 @ 60HZ or 75HZ

None of these are choices in "First Run Dialog"

[shinobar]

What happens with 1024X768 57HZ in your case?
Black screen? Or another problem?

That one will give me a desktop screen, but it is still not good for my monitor.
The fonts do not look clear, does not look good.
1280X1024 60HZ is the native resolution.

I see.

1280x1024 50 HZ setting will work and give me an OK desktop, but again not the best refresh rate. Needs to be 60HZ.

What is the problem with 1280x1024 50 HZ then?

And please let me know the result of the xrandr of your case.
On the virtual terminal, type:

Code: Select all

xrandr

[bigpup]

What is the problem with 1280x1024 50 HZ then?

Not the native refresh rate. See my post above.

From monitors owners manual:
Native resolution for best setting 1280X1024 @ 60HZ
Settings available:
720X400 @70HZ
640X480@ 60HZ or 72HZ or 75HZ
800x600 @ 60HZ or 72HZ or 75HZ
1024X768 @ 60HZ or 70HZ or75HZ
1280X1024 @ 60HZ or 75HZ

And please let me know the result of the xrandr of your case.
On the virtual terminal, type:
Code:
xrandr

[shinobar]

Thanks, bigpup.

1280X1024 @ 56HZ or 57HZ
My monitor would spit parts on that setting!

I overlooked.
Is the problem is still with 1280X1024 @ 56HZ or 57HZ? or with 50Hz?

The Mobeus case and bigpup case is different.
The Mobeus case, the issue is the XorgWizad/Resolution Chager takes the highest rate instead of the lowest.

Your(bigpup case) xrandr says 50 or 51Hz is the only available rate for 1280X1024.
Is the xranr wrong?
Does the driver can do the frequencies other than 50/51, say 56/57/60 etc., for 1280X1024?
How can you manage? For example, editing the xorg.conf by hand?

[shinobar]

Would you be able to start SNS when firstrun ends?

We may be better to open new topic on the information and settings needed at the first boot-up.
The theme is: what are needed, in what order, and who control them.

The current luci-232 offers the personalize settings and the welcome1stboot information same time.
Classic puppies, or the Wary-092, offers the console dialog for keyboard setting first, then locale, time, graphic.
Next, start-ups the graphical desktop, offer the welcome1stboot information and upgrade X driver.
It is reasonable sequence.

Thinking our luci/lupu, i think it better: after the graphical desktop, the personalize settings first, welcome1stboot information next, and the last rest of them.

Now on the luci-232, the sequence is controled by the delayedrun, which looses the flexibility.
In another word, the delayedrun branches the first-run.sh and itself provides the welcom1stboot by itself, It make the complexity.
More simple and flex way is the delaydrun only do launching the Startup scripts, or only launching the first-run.sh first and next startup scripts.
I mean the welcome1stboot should be controlled by the first-run.sh. (LupQ does so.)

How do you think? (to all)

[bigpup]

Your(bigpup case) xrandr says 50 or 51Hz is the only available rate for 1280X1024.
Is the xranr wrong?

Yes!!

Does the driver can do the frequencies other than 50/51, say 56/57/60 etc., for 1280X1024?
How can you manage? For example, editing the xorg.conf by hand?

I am Using 60HZ now.
Yes I can edit xorg.conf and make it 60HZ refresh rate at 1280X1024.
I can change it to 60HZ in xorgwizard.
I can change it to 60HZ by using the Nvidia X server settings program.
The point is the resolution options in the First Run Dialog do not give me the 60HZ setting. It offers a setting that just works, but is still wrong for my monitor.
What good is it if I still have to go someplace else to get the settings I need?
I know they are wrong. Would a newbie know that? Would he know that some of the choices will give him the Black Screen of Death? A fuzzy screen because the refresh rate is wrong?

If it had a choice for resolution setting and a choice for refresh rate it would be perfect.

[shinobar]

Your(bigpup case) xrandr says 50 or 51Hz is the only available rate for 1280X1024.
Is the xranr wrong?

Yes!!

Thanks, bigpup.
Then our story becomes quite different.
Using the xrandr to change the resolution can be our mistake.

I have not truly been unaware with the xrandr limitation.
It strongly depends on the driver.

... The dialog of the Personalize Setting says:

If your desired resolution is not shown on the list, you have a chance with running the XorgWizard, and may need to choose the video driver.

That is all i can do at this point of time...
Any of good idea? > to all

[shinobar]

bigpup,
Your suggestion is welcome.
My thought is it can be another project and may take a long term.

I like to confirm, bigpup.
In your case, xorgwizard has no problem, and the problem is of the Video Resolution Changer(xrandrshell)/the Personalize Stting?

You can see my trial to change the resolution by GUI in Puppy-431JPqs3, a half year ago released. Same can be seen in the Browserlinux i remember.
At that time, i didn't use the xrandr.



In the LupQ i aborted it because touching the xorgwizard is hard.
But i like to try again in near future.

As for the Mobeus case, it is different.
i will upload the improved version in a couple of days.

Thanks to all.

[bigpup]

I like to confirm, bigpup.
In your case, xorgwizard has no problem, and the problem is of the Video Resolution Changer(xrandrshell)/the Personalize Stting?

Yes Xorgwizard works fine. However, to get a choice of refresh rate, you have to run Test after selecting a resolution.
Resolution Changer and Personalize Setting. No good, because of no adjustment for refresh rate.
This really got me in trouble in my early days of using Puppy Linux. Like I really know what I am doing now!
Thanks for putting up with my rant!

[bigpup]

shinobar,
About the resolution and refresh rate issue.
Using the First Run Dialog on different video hardware and with different video drivers made a big difference.
Example;
Nvidia NV 37GL Quadro pci-e in a dell.
ATI Radeon 2600 Pro in a home built.

Vesa driver
Nvidia Quadro -no settings looked good.
Ati Radeon -got settings I could use.

Video driver specific to video card
Nvidia Quadro -settings better but still not good.
Ati Radeon -got settings I could use.

Thanks for this, good feature on initial startup.

[shinobar]

shinobar,
About the resolution and refresh rate issue.
Using the First Run Dialog on different video hardware and with different video drivers made a big difference.

Thanks bigpup for the report.
Yes i know that is the limitation of xrandr.