First Run Dialog for next Lucid Puppy
Mind if I speak up?
If I don't have any changes to make (screen resolution, keyboard, etc.) via your proposed GUI, can I just close the box with the corner x ?
If I must click on "Okay" to successfully run Puppy with the default selections, would it be better to change "Click okay to save your change" to something like "Click okay to save settings"? The word 'settings' would lead me to believe that I must click "Okay" with changes -- or without changes.
Just an odd-ball perspective....
-Roy
P.S. Shinobar, thank you for all of your work. Really enjoy Lupq!
If I don't have any changes to make (screen resolution, keyboard, etc.) via your proposed GUI, can I just close the box with the corner x ?
If I must click on "Okay" to successfully run Puppy with the default selections, would it be better to change "Click okay to save your change" to something like "Click okay to save settings"? The word 'settings' would lead me to believe that I must click "Okay" with changes -- or without changes.
Just an odd-ball perspective....
-Roy
P.S. Shinobar, thank you for all of your work. Really enjoy Lupq!
Click okay to save your change
Good point, Roy.Roy wrote:If I don't have any changes to make (screen resolution, keyboard, etc.) via your proposed GUI, can I just close the box with the corner x ?
If I must click on "Okay" to successfully run Puppy with the default selections, would it be better to change "Click okay to save your change" to something like "Click okay to save settings"? The word 'settings' would lead me to believe that I must click "Okay" with changes -- or without changes.
If you close the box with the corner x, the dialog comes up every time after X reboot.
So you must press OK even if you need no changes.
We are better to consider the explanation on the button...
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]
a working model is available
Now a working model of the first run dialog is available open for your test and discussion. See the top of this topic.
Install the firstrun-0.8.4d-lucu.pet on Luci-230 or on Lupu-51x.
From the virtual terminal, type: first-run.sh
There are no launchers on the menu nor at the desktop icons.
For precise test, run Lupu-230 with RAM mode(pfix=ram), install the attached, and restart X-server.
The dialog pops up every time restarting X-server even you click 'OK' if the lupu runs under RAM mode.
NOTE: It also replaces the countrywizard.
Install the firstrun-0.8.4d-lucu.pet on Luci-230 or on Lupu-51x.
From the virtual terminal, type: first-run.sh
There are no launchers on the menu nor at the desktop icons.
For precise test, run Lupu-230 with RAM mode(pfix=ram), install the attached, and restart X-server.
The dialog pops up every time restarting X-server even you click 'OK' if the lupu runs under RAM mode.
NOTE: It also replaces the countrywizard.
Last edited by shinobar on Wed 13 Oct 2010, 06:18, edited 1 time in total.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]
Automatic pop up
The working model firstrun-0.8.4d pops up every time restarting X-server even you click 'OK' if the lupu runs under RAM mode.Lobster wrote:Is this the only way it can be programmed?If you close the box with the corner x, the dialog comes up every time after X reboot.
So you must press OK even if you need no changes.
Similar one on LupQ does not pop up once you click 'OK'.
Because the one on LupQ has no difference with the country wizard, can run from the menu or from the wizardwizard.
The behaviour is the choice of the programmer.
Which is better is open for the discussion.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]
Shinobar, Looking great. Thank you for all the work.
What do people think? I really think there ought to be a button for CCE on the first-run dialog (as in 8d1), but I am willing to be convinced . After the CCE (xorgwizard) runs then the first-run dialog would reappear.
I am just thinking out loud, but if we give instructions about running it from the menu we might as well provide a button.
CCE could only set the video driver--not anything else (country, timezone, etc., as xorgwizard traditionally does) then one would see the first run dialog again and could change anything else. Or CCE could set everything. Which?
The reason for CCE is that we have 2 ways to set the video driver--the auto config has been working very well it seems--but xorgwizard CCE is a most capable backup.
One high priority here is to divorce setting the Keyboard Layout from running CCE--because some people have found that they need to change the keyboard but running CCE screws up something else (synaptics touchpad). That is definitely going to be accomplished, no matter what else. Shinobar has a proposal that could fix the problem with synaptics and CCE.
People will only see this first-run dialog once, but it is the first thing they will see, so thanks for all the feedback. Or as Lobster says "Personalize Settings".
If someone closes it with the X in the upper right corner--that would mean they do not want to change anything--so it should not reappear--just a little more complicated programming, eh?
What do people think? I really think there ought to be a button for CCE on the first-run dialog (as in 8d1), but I am willing to be convinced . After the CCE (xorgwizard) runs then the first-run dialog would reappear.
I am just thinking out loud, but if we give instructions about running it from the menu we might as well provide a button.
CCE could only set the video driver--not anything else (country, timezone, etc., as xorgwizard traditionally does) then one would see the first run dialog again and could change anything else. Or CCE could set everything. Which?
The reason for CCE is that we have 2 ways to set the video driver--the auto config has been working very well it seems--but xorgwizard CCE is a most capable backup.
One high priority here is to divorce setting the Keyboard Layout from running CCE--because some people have found that they need to change the keyboard but running CCE screws up something else (synaptics touchpad). That is definitely going to be accomplished, no matter what else. Shinobar has a proposal that could fix the problem with synaptics and CCE.
People will only see this first-run dialog once, but it is the first thing they will see, so thanks for all the feedback. Or as Lobster says "Personalize Settings".
If someone closes it with the X in the upper right corner--that would mean they do not want to change anything--so it should not reappear--just a little more complicated programming, eh?
XorgWizard button
Thanks playdayz for giving me such an exiting job.
We can put a 'XorgWizard' button(, not 'CCE') in the 'Screen size' frame, like 0.8d1.
(I think the CCE devorced with keyboard is the same as the xorgwizard, right?)
In this case, we needs more discussion...
What happens if I choose en_GB, UTC, uk, 1024x768, then click 'XorgWizard' instead of 'OK'?
My thought, all the country settings are applied but the screen size ignored, and go through XorgWizard.
Of course the dialog should pop up again after the XorgWizard performed.
Like to here more discussion.
We can put a 'XorgWizard' button(, not 'CCE') in the 'Screen size' frame, like 0.8d1.
(I think the CCE devorced with keyboard is the same as the xorgwizard, right?)
In this case, we needs more discussion...
What happens if I choose en_GB, UTC, uk, 1024x768, then click 'XorgWizard' instead of 'OK'?
My thought, all the country settings are applied but the screen size ignored, and go through XorgWizard.
Of course the dialog should pop up again after the XorgWizard performed.
Not complicated in programing but i concern isn't it complicated for the users?playdayz wrote:If someone closes it with the X in the upper right corner--that would mean they do not want to change anything--so it should not reappear--just a little more complicated programming, eh?
Like to here more discussion.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]
Important tooThanks playdayz for giving me such an exiting job.
That would be great. An easier solution from a programming standpoint would be simply to run xorgwizard and then come back to the first-run dialog. The way that usually runs xorgwizard is to delete xorg.conf and then wmexit.What happens if I choose en_GB, UTC, uk, 1024x768, then click 'XorgWizard' instead of 'OK'?
My thought, all the country settings are applied but the screen size ignored, and go through XorgWizard.
We should definitely make the OK button the most obvious. Also for the xorgwizard button we could say something like "Click *Only* if the current video driver is unacceptable."
It is good to get all this discussion. Thanks.
I think anyone who clicks the X to close a program knows what they are doing--and they mean to close it. So I don't think anyone would be confused or close it by accident--and even if they did it will still be on the menu.If someone closes it with the X in the upper right corner--that would mean they do not want to change anything--so it should not reappear--just a little more complicated programming, eh? Wink
Not complicated in programing but i concern isn't it complicated for the users?
The new test version looks good. V0.8d4
Because you are able to change resolution. It should make the change and bring you back to decide if that is what you want.
I think you need an apply button and an Ok button.
Apply- all settings are made. You can see effect.
Ok- you are happy. Close program window.
Because you are able to change resolution. It should make the change and bring you back to decide if that is what you want.
I think you need an apply button and an Ok button.
Apply- all settings are made. You can see effect.
Ok- you are happy. Close program window.
Apply button
Sounds nice.bigpup wrote:Apply- all settings are made. You can see effect.
Ok- you are happy. Close program window.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]
keyboard suggestion
Here's a suggestion for you to think about.
What about giving the user a picture (gif or png) of the keyboard
that you choose. Maybe a button labelled 'Picture of keyboard chosen'.
It would allow the user to see the position of the keys which can
be radically different from the US international keyboard.
If pictures take up to much diskspace then a ' text ' picture
could be an alternative
____________________________________________
What about giving the user a picture (gif or png) of the keyboard
that you choose. Maybe a button labelled 'Picture of keyboard chosen'.
It would allow the user to see the position of the keys which can
be radically different from the US international keyboard.
If pictures take up to much diskspace then a ' text ' picture
could be an alternative
____________________________________________
Re: keyboard suggestion
Thanks Don. Interest idea, but i do not think it so effective because it is hard to check out all the key.don570 wrote:What about giving the user a picture (gif or png) of the keyboard
that you choose. Maybe a button labelled 'Picture of keyboard chosen'.
It would allow the user to see the position of the keys which can
be radically different from the US international keyboard.
By the way, I like to show an example here for english readers to see how they are radically different from the US keyboard.
Refer the detail on the Wikipedia.
Imagine how to type 'puppy pfix=ram' or 'xorgwizard' by these layout.
French keyboard layout (AZERTY):
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]
- Béèm
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Re: keyboard suggestion
Thank you shinobar for making this point clear.shinobar wrote:Thanks Don. Interest idea, but i do not think it so effective because it is hard to check out all the key.don570 wrote:What about giving the user a picture (gif or png) of the keyboard
that you choose. Maybe a button labelled 'Picture of keyboard chosen'.
It would allow the user to see the position of the keys which can
be radically different from the US international keyboard.
By the way, I like to show an example here for english readers to see how they are radically different from the US keyboard.
Refer the detail on the Wikipedia.
Imagine how to type 'puppy pfix=ram' or 'xorgwizard' by these layout.
French keyboard layout (AZERTY):
I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
- Béèm
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shinobar, may I make another suggestion.
Your approach looks really well and (being NLS) I like it, but would it be possible to add another button to choose the clock. 12 hour or 24 hour.
Your approach looks really well and (being NLS) I like it, but would it be possible to add another button to choose the clock. 12 hour or 24 hour.
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Béèm, I never doubted you. I used plenty of keyboards that were not natural to me in testing, but my point is that we had such a high percentage of successfully booting to the desktop that it was extremely unlikely that anyone would have to deal with that problem. As you yourself did, you could boot to the desktop and then change the keyboard. A problem that almost never happens is not a reason to make a design change. I agree that in previous versions, even Lucid 5.0 that had the problem with a few, or one, type card booting to a black screen then the problem would have been significant, but Lucid 5.1.1 does not have that problem.I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.
- Béèm
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How did you 'measure' that high percentage of successful booting to the desktop. If people don't report, you wouldn't know.playdayz wrote:Béèm, I never doubted you. I used plenty of keyboards that were not natural to me in testing, but my point is that we had such a high percentage of successfully booting to the desktop that it was extremely unlikely that anyone would have to deal with that problem. As you yourself did, you could boot to the desktop and then change the keyboard. A problem that almost never happens is not a reason to make a design change. I agree that in previous versions, even Lucid 5.0 that had the problem with a few, or one, type card booting to a black screen then the problem would have been significant, but Lucid 5.1.1 does not have that problem.I tried to explain to playdayz the hell national language (NLS) people had to go through, but never thought of making a picture of the NLS keyboard as you did.
But ok, it is nice to know you did testing on keyboards you're not familiar about. I don't think, or maybe didn't remember, you did so. Good point for you.
I still doubt, having been a product manager in my professional life in Belgium, that the issue of National Language Support is fully understood.
And indeed the boot to black display has been improved to a great extend. Fortunately.
I think shinobar's contribution is a good way to handle the situation of NLS.
So don't misunderstand, I appreciate the work done for Lucid.
I see now new developments have been made. I barely have time to catch up with it all, but I will look at 5.2. And give my comment as usual.
I have been distracted a bit by squeeze, the new wary and quirky 1.3 and have problems with the last two. Squeeze is ok for the moment.
I fear Barry's new approach with filenames plays a negative role to the way I install using the Lin'N'Win method.
Hope 5.2 will not do so, but I will tell if it does.
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Safe mode
I like to inform you my approach on LupQ, giving 'safe mode' on the boot menu.Béèm wrote:How did you 'measure' that high percentage of successful booting to the desktop. If people don't report, you wouldn't know.
Because they may be unable to type 'puppy pfix=nox'.
http://shino.pos.to/linux/lupq/features.html
The graphical menu is not difficult. Even the isolinux can, I know the Fluppy does, but grub4dos is more easy and the remasterpup2 supports the grub4dos.
Asking the keyboard layout with the 'safe mode', I needed modifying rc.country and /etc/profle.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]
countrywizard
Thanks, playdayz. It should make a chance to receive more discussion.playdayz wrote:I am building a luci-231 with version 8d4.
Tested Luci-231 and seems working as i expected.
Note that if you change only the scereen size, you are not required to restart X with openbox, and seems no promblem.
If you are with jwm, luc-230 or lupu-511, restarting X will be offered, and it also seems working well.
The classic countrywizard now works on luci-231 thanks to the new xorg.conf, but i recommend to replace it with the new one.
The classic countrywizard cannot change the keyboard layout on the fly, and problem with some keyboard, jp and br.
When we switch the countrywizard to the new countrywizard.qs*, we can wipe out several entries from the menu, Chooselocale, Set timezone, Set hardware clock type.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]