Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

rone · Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 8 Location: Central Florida, USA

I have an old HP laptop with a 900MHz PIII and 192MB of RAM. I would like to use the laptop and Puppy to do light computing, including general purpose browsing (preferably with Firefox), and initiate a remote desktop to a Windows XP Pro computer. Most importantly, I would like to have a trusted system that I can use to make Internet purchases and do on-line banking. I am not fluent in Linux, but I am a fairly advanced computer user.

I tried the LiveCD and it worked fine. I was able to get wired and wireless networking to work, install Firefox and browse to my heart's content. I am now trying to figure out a few things about installing Puppy on the hard drive. I have read a lot of Puppy stuff over the past few days, but I am still confused about the best approach to install Puppy 5 in my case - frugal or full.

I have an empty hard drive. I have no desire to run a MS Windows partition, but I might want to add a bootable FreeDOS partition later. It sounds like a frugal install would be easier to do and might be easier to identify undesired changes to the system due to malware attack, but a full install might allow better use of the limited amount of RAM.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

stu90 · Posted: Sun 11 Jul 2010, 22:30 Post subject:

I prefer frugal install myself as it is very easy and quick to update to new versions, to install multiple versions of puppy/puplets and to back up frugal save files in case i brake something.

If you are not using the HDD for anything else why not give both ways a try see what works best for you.

Cool

muggins · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 6660 Location: lisbon

Like Stu90 I prefer frugal, but it would be better if you had more RAM. Try creating either a swap partition, or swap file, to see the difference.

looseSCREWorTWO · Posted: Sun 11 Jul 2010, 23:56 Post subject:

I also prefer Frugal installs, for the same reasons as listed above. Like muggins says, you should create a Linux-Swap partition of about 320mb, which Puppy will use as extra "virtual RAM" after you reboot.

For online banking etc, the safest and simplest approach is to run Puppy from a CD. At the first pause in the boot sequence press the F2 key, then type
puppy pfix=ram
This tells Puppy to boot up from the CD without using your Save file. Then at the end of the session, when asked, choose NOT to create a Save file. This means that any Internet purchasing or banking you did during that session will not be saved anywhere on your computer, also any Virus or Trojan will not be saved, which denies this malware the opportunity of gaining a foothold on your system.

There is a way to achieve the same thing by running Puppy on a USB Stick. See the Post by Sylvander here:
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=75009
More info is available here:
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showpost.php?p=446526&postcount=223
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showpost.php?p=446722&postcount=224

Steve

rone · Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 8 Location: Central Florida, USA

Thanks for your replies. I never though to just install Puppy on the hard disk both ways...

I am concerned that I do not have at least 256MB of RAM for frugal. The LiveCD seemed to work okay though. Maybe just not enough room for future expansion. And, unfortunately, there is not an easy way to add more memory to the laptop without costing an arm and a leg.

I know little about Puppy's built-in boot loader and partition manager. Can I setup bootable partitions of FAT32 for FreeDOS, of ext2/3 for full Puppy, and of ext2/3 for frugal? Can a single swap space be used for frugal, full and LiveCD Puppy or do I need separate swap space for each?

Thanks!

RetroTechGuy · Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2301 Location: USA

looseSCREWorTWO · Posted: Mon 12 Jul 2010, 09:37 Post subject:

Once you setup 320mb of Swap it will be used by Puppy each time you boot it on that PC, regardless of whether you boot from CD or HD or USB. If you do this then you won't need any more RAM. It won't cost you a cent.

BTW: Laptop RAM doesn't cost "an arm and a leg" if you buy it on eBay. Here is some 128mb RAM sticks for sale at $7.99 per stick:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/128Mb-PC133-133Mhz-Laptop-Notebook-Memory-RAM-SDRAM-/180522792463?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Laptop_Accessories&hash=item2a07ff360f

I would try the no-cost option first, which is to create a 320mb Linux-Swap partition. It will improve performance heaps. Then if you fall in love with Puppy like we all have, you might decide to go crazy and risk $7.99 on a stick of RAM. But do your research first. HP have a good website which will tell you the maximum RAM your PC will take, and whether it takes 128mb sticks, or 256mb sticks, or if a BIOS update will enable it to take more.

Try more Swap first. Here is a blow-by-blow description of how:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57601&start=4

`f00 · Posted: Mon 12 Jul 2010, 10:11 Post subject: Subject description: pieces/parts

"like we all have" Smile

Boot from the liveCD with pfix=ram (so nothing gets mounted, you shouldn't attempt to use any partitioning utility on a mounted filesystem).

GParted is your friend (although it may have a few issues in some pups in development); it is mostly intuitive and easy to use with a basic local help documentation. Give some thought to planning how your parts are done, moving/resizing/etc may be time-consuming once they are populated.

I'm also a fan of frugal (and multisession) - large apps like wine and open office work well as add-on sfs files and help to keep a smallish savefile (much easier to copy/bkp). Excellent idea to have a backup when trialing new software (pets and so on) or making changes, things can get strange if you're adventurous Wink

RetroTechGuy · Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2301 Location: USA

Sylvander · Posted: Mon 12 Jul 2010, 16:43 Post subject:

More at item 2 here [particularly 2c].

Haven't read this:
Online Banking Using Puppy LiveUSB.

RetroTechGuy · Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2301 Location: USA

bones01 · Joined: 11 Aug 2008 Posts: 363 Location: Melbourne, Aus

I'm currently running lucid as a full and quirky as a frugal. This is working fine, and while I'm using the full install as my main OS, I'm glad to have another system there.

I have had a world of trouble after making some changes to Lucid, so frugal really has some large benefits.

Bones

Sylvander · Posted: Tue 13 Jul 2010, 05:03 Post subject:

1. "I have had a world of trouble after making some changes to Lucid"
(a) Immediately prior to making [risky?] changes to a full install of a Puppy...
Boot into a 2nd Puppy and use either Xfe or [even better] snap2...
To make a [yet another?] backup copy of the folder/file contents of the Puppy partition.
An updated snap2 snapshot takes MUCH LESS additional space and time to do a backup update.

(b) If/when the changes to the Puppy partition contents cause undesired consequences....
You can use Xfe to restore one of the Xfe or snap2 backups.
The Puppy will then be back the way it was prior to the changes.
If you have various Xfe backups or snap2 snapshots, you can choose to go back to the way things were when the backup was made.
I write a log on paper, of all steps completed, with backups in red ink...
And I can see which backup [when restored] would eliminate which changes.

(c) I can do the same by making backups of the pupsave file at various points in time.

Mercedes350se · Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 477

I currently have a full 3.01 install on hda1. I also have a 'spare' 488MB as hda4 - used to be swap partition but decided I didn't need it.

Reading the above and some of the links I would like to:

1. Do a frugal install on hda4

2. Automate the pfix=ram step

3. No saves during the session

4. Only save at the end of the session if I so desire, and

5. Have the pupsave on hda4.

This is to obtain a "bankpup 3.01".

Is this feasible or a desirable way to obtain my goal?

I have used the LiveCD and pupsave on a USB stick technique but was unimpressed with the boot up time compared with the full install.

looseSCREWorTWO · Posted: Fri 16 Jul 2010, 07:10 Post subject:

G'day Mercedes350se,
unfortunately you lose control of "saves" when you install to a HD. Puppy goes into a different PUPSTATE and things are written directly to the HD as they happen. The geniuses who invented Puppy give the User more control over "saves" to a Flash Drive because of concerns that a Flash Drive may wear out quickly if treated the same as a HD.

You could do a frugal install to hda4, but with only 488mb of space on that partition you couldn't have a "save" file of more than 256mb and you wouldn't have enough space for SFS files. Being able to use SFS files for big apps like Wine and Open Office is a major benefit of a Frugal Install, as it keeps these large and growing apps outside the "save" file, yet available for use as if they were inside it.

Running Puppy on a USB Stick is slower than a HD, partly because the USB Stick is slower. On older computers with USB 1 Ports, it can get REALLY SLOW because USB 1 runs 40 times slower than USB 2, so you have the slowness of the USB Stick compunded by the mega-slowness of the USB Port.

If you have a desktop computer you might be able to put USB 2 "high speed" ports in to one of the PCI Slots, to give better performance running Puppy off a USB Stick. If you have a laptop, it should be possible to buy a PCMCIA Card (for $15 on eBay) that goes in the Expansion Slot and gives you "high speed" USB 2 ports that way.

Steve