4.4 Alpha 1

[ttuuxxx]

hi guys as 4.3.2 goes I figured I'll toss something out and see the reaction, it was pretty good, So I gave it a 2 weeks or so to get enough feedback so I would have a good grasp where to go with it, maybe tomorrow I'll revisit it
I really just wanted to buy some time for Barry and 5 series and maybe 4.4, I'm not trying to take over 4 series, I have enough things already with my own projects, Plus I was more partial towards 2,3 series and have big hopes for 5 series, 4 series dumped gtk1.2, tcl/tk and well I always liked some gtk 1.2, tcl/tk apps better than gtk2 series, like the wallpaper setter, bubbles, gemgame. But really the wallpaper setter could probably be ported to gtk2 and added widescreen support, plus if gweled was gnome deps reduced that would cure most of issues I have with 4 series.
I don't like dark themes on jwm, Icewm handled them much better, personally I think all menu icons should be 24x24.

ttuuxxx

[FlyingRedGoat]

When you change the number of desktops, the "menu" button ceases to respond.

To fix it, edit .jwmrc-tray and insert this:

<TrayButton icon="/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps/start-button.png">root:3</TrayButton>

In some cases, this line is there with root:0
Shall be replaced with root:3

OK, I finally got some time (sorry I had a test). Found jwmrc-tray (after looking for hidden files ), but when I tried to edit the file I discovered that it was already correctly configured.

K

[kkoceski]

Hi again. I'm the lame dude that can't figure out wireless on the Dell Latitude E6500. I realized I only complained, and didn't applaud this great OS. Please let me fix that by saying thanks !!!

I got wireless to work, but only by using an external USB dongle. And another thing about that dongle is that it only works if you boot up with it in - if you try to plug it in after boot, it won't work.

[technosaurus]

@zigbert - Thanks, I have added dude-0.2 and the most recent P* programs as of Friday evening.

I highly recommend installing dude-0.2, since it will fix my oops and also for testing because it will be in the next build. I have, and it is working well... not sure if it is dependent on seamonkey though (it is a default favorite)...because

I'd really like to do a firefox build soon, since more sites work with it and it will save enough space to add a smaller browser for low end machines ....probably dillo or netsurf (however seamonkey-1.1.19 will probably be the alternative)

Not seamonkey2 because it still has many issues... instead
Firefox+Sypheed-3.x+Abiword-2.8.x+Osmo
(browser,mail,web-editor,calendar)

I had trouble with https sites in Midori, if that gets worked out it is a nice webkit based alternative to Firefox

Geany
I am surprised nobody has said anything about the change in geany's layout or the jwm "notitle" that makes geany's top bar go away (I will probably remove that part because it gets in the way of searches unless you Alt+drag the search window). It was just a little experiment with maximizing screen real estate for smaller/wide screens.... small icons only on the same line as the menu, tabs to the left, etc... It did show a bug in geany though... with tabs to the left the vertical line at position 79 (by default) is off - it may be ok on the right though?

@ kkoceski aka "DELL DUDE".... can post mymods.gz after running in a working version and a non-working version of Puppy 4.X

Code: Select all

lsmod >mymods
gzip mymods

[jpeps]

I'd really like to do a firefox build soon, since more sites work with it and it will save enough space to add a smaller browser for low end machines ....probably dillo or netsurf (however seamonkey-1.1.19 will probably be the alternative)

It might be nice to have FF as an optional install, since a static download is so simple. I suspect a lot of folks already use it. I like Seamonkey's web editor.

[OldYogi]

This new version looks great; the changes in pcc look good, the pcc/desktop/trays button works; and the icons in the add icons tray seem to no longer be dropped.

But, this new version fails to find my Broadcom wireless; whereas 4.3-2 pre alpha found it immediately. For wireless this version seems to have dropped back to 4.31, which could not find the Broadcom either.

What changed?

[technosaurus]

I started with a woof build this time and missed some pets from the forum Will do some work on drivers for the next build to add more wireless drivers (In addition to adding an a full zdrv sfs) If you know of a pet for a specific driver though please post it just in case I can't find them.

I like seamonkey's editor as well... have been using it since netscape composer days back in the mid 90s, but just as an exercise I sat down to try writing a web page in abiword-2.8.2 and was pretty impressed with the results (gui only manual remaster howto). I did miss the quick browser preview capability, but it had the added benefit of being able to export to many different formats that seamonkey cannot and it has a grammar plugin and many others.

Composer is a good tool, but Abiword has come a long way since the 2.6 series where only png images were supported and now it is hard to beat for creating a quick and easy web page (even for a composer user like me, but especially for a new user). If you haven't tried it, I would suggest giving it a whirl sometime.

[01micko]

techno

DuDE-0.1 was (partially) dependent on SM but DuDE-0.2 is not, I tried it on lupu-111 yesterday and it seemed just fine, I made a midori menu icon too and that shows up in DuDe's favourites too.

Go for the FF build

Cheers

[DaveS]

Which browser to include will always be a thorny question. It is probably the most used piece of software on a home pc right now. I guess ultimately Firefox is the way to go because it is fast becoming the industry standard, and because there are so many add-ons. I find it renders difficult sites well too.
Cant please everyone with this though

[technosaurus]

techno

DuDE-0.1 was (partially) dependent on SM but DuDE-0.2 is not, I tried it on lupu-111 yesterday and it seemed just fine, I made a midori menu icon too and that shows up in DuDe's favourites too.

Go for the FF build

Cheers

sounds good

I built 2 versions of sylpheed one with gpg support and the other without, but I never use gpg, so can someone test it ... it looks for gpg in /usr/bin

I compiled gpg to get sylpheed to at least build, but just a minimal version - probably not really worth making into a pet but I will add it in case someone who does use gpg finds it acceptable

[ttuuxxx]

Why not use claws mail? The last time I compiled it came with better features/plugins than sylpheed, claws-mail-3.7.0 is the last release that doesn't use gnutils and newer release does which would add a lot more weight to the distro. Does html links open in sylpheed? Claws it works.
Also I'm 100% for Firefox as long that it scrolls smoothly, That was a issue with it and 4 series, if you went to https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox and scrolled up and down there was a lot of lag. I think it was the version of Xorg.
ttuuxxx

[DaveS]

if you went to https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox and scrolled up and down there was a lot of lag. I think it was the version of Xorg.
ttuuxxx

Seems to scroll just fine in 4.3.2 Firefox 3.6.3

[DaveS]

Firefox will need dbus of course.

[01micko]

I compiled namarooka (FF 3.6alpha/beta codename) awhile ago, back when BK was having trouble with a bug in unionfs (4.3 beta?) without dbus and it worked fine, even when FF3.5X wouldn't work with the unionfs bug. All the Seamonkey 2X compiles I did have been without dbus, no major complaints,

Cheers

[DaveS]

I compiled namarooka (FF 3.6alpha/beta codename) awhile ago, back when BK was having trouble with a bug in unionfs (4.3 beta?) without dbus and it worked fine, even when FF3.5X wouldn't work with the unionfs bug. All the Seamonkey 2X compiles I did have been without dbus, no major complaints,

Cheers

Sure, but does that then make auto-update or installation of a later version impossible without also adding dbus?

[Snail]

Can someone point me to a discussion of the Seamonkey2 issues? I am using it in 4.3.2 and am loving it, except that the browser becomes horribly confused when my laptop runs out of battery. I'm still unable to restore automatic login to this site for instance.

If Seamonkey is dropped, those of us using it as an IMAP mail client will have to run Thunderbird as well, hardly a "lightweight" option. For the non-geek, what does the heavy Firefox/Thunderbird combination give us that a stable Seamonkey would not? The interfaces seem very, very similar, to the extent that Mozilla help documentation does not distinguish between Firefox/Seamonkey browser and Thunderbird/Seamonkey Mail, except for a few points.

Since Seamonkey2 is only at 2.04, perhaps it it too early to give up on it just yet?

[DaveS]

I like seamonkey's editor as well... have been using it since netscape composer days back in the mid 90s, but just as an exercise I sat down to try writing a web page in abiword-2.8.2 and was pretty impressed with the results (gui only manual remaster howto). I did miss the quick browser preview capability, but it had the added benefit of being able to export to many different formats that seamonkey cannot and it has a grammar plugin and many others.

Dont forget Open Office Writer can do HTML, AND it is 'drag and drop'. I guess quite a few have the .sfs installed.

[01micko]

Sure, but does that then make auto-update or installation of a later version impossible without also adding dbus?

OK, but personally I strongly dislike auto updates, I usually turn it off. If given a choice, fine.

Depends too on how small techno can get dbus and dbus.glib I guess. Maybe just go with Midori . if it runs cups, then whack in a browser downloader of some description.. maybe [ ]

[technosaurus]

FYI - I compile without automatic updates and Sylpheed can handle IMAP since version 0.4.99 (currently 3.0.2).

The avoidance of automatic updates is to avoid the annoyance of unnecessary popups for those that run without creating a save file or who often boot with pfix=ram and to avoid incompatibilities with the mainline versions that often carry unnecessary dependencies such as those mentioned.

Sylpheed will open html links in an external browser, but you may need to set preference to /usr/local/bin/defaultbrowser ... that is one thing that I neglected to do in my pet (other preferences as well)

also since Barry has always compiled seamonkey with ldap disabled, I did the same for sylpheed... Unlike Claws mail, sylpheed's plugin system is new so perhaps gpg, ldap etc... can be shifted to plugins in the future. The main difference with Claws is that it can do html with a webkit based plugin... which would favor using midori as the browser...

Seamonkey-1.1.19 ~10MB
last of the 1.X legacy, but still a good choice for now

Firefox-3 + Sylpheed ~10.5MB (no small html viewer +~.5MB)
Works on more sites without having to reset the user agent string. No html emails in Sylpheed except as attachments (could be + or - depending on the user ?)

Seamonkey-2.X ~12MB (no small html viewer +~.5MB)
problems with mail attachments

Midori + Clawsmail including gnutls & html viewer plugin ~8MB (including webkit and other dependencies)
downfalls - needs flash9 or additional mozilla libs - previously had problems resolving https, but webkit would provide a future port for the Puppy Browser since vala has good webkit bindings

Opera - good but proprietary and much larger now unless someone got permission to localize it and have unite as a separate package

... It appears that Seamonkey1 is likely the best choice for the 4.4 series, but Midori/webkit may be the way to go in the future, however it only takes a few minutes for me to crank out a firefox build - so why not?... over 25% (est.) of those who downloaded the last iso ended up downloading the firefox pet anyways (unfortunately I would need to rebuild Midori and all of its dependencies, because I'm not quite happy with the last build)

[jemimah]

My vote is keep working on Midori! Size matters but also speed. Firefox (and also Seamonkey 2) can take eons to start up - I usually end up clicking on it two or three times because it takes so long to start compared to the rest of Puppy software that I think it's broken. With Midori, you wouldn't even need a PuppyBrowser because Midori opens within a second or two anyway.

Claws also has a couple of really cool plugins, an RSS reader, and with vCalendar it can handle Outlook meeting requests.

Seamonkey1 just looks and feels old and unappealing, IMO.