Needed Main Topic Organization Structure To This Section

[Flash]

Flash,

Could you remove the comment posts that are in the INTERNET and FILE-SYSTEM main topic posts and move them to this location?

I can remove posts from a thread but I cannot add them to another thread. I can only start a new thread with them. If you are the author of the posts you want moved, you can make a post in this thread, paste into it the contents of the posts you want moved from the other places to here, then send me a PM with the URLs of the redundant posts so I can delete them.

[bigpup]

People are starting to catch on to what I am trying to do, provide a listing of programs under main topic headings.
If you go to:


INDEX ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE

select a topic heading

you will go to a list of links to programs for that topic.

The big thing is, these Main Topic lists can be added to by ANYONE. If you find a program post, that is not listed, you can add a link to it in the appropriate main topic list. Some people have done this and also realized that when they post a link, it can give a brief info statement about the program.

One big thing about this, WE CAN ALL HELP to improve these lists and make it much easier to find all the great programs that are in the section ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff)

[01micko]

I think your idea is fine bigpup, but 1 thing, Dingo's (forum member) site is called Dokupuppy I think, maybe change that name to avoid confusion. Dingo's work around here is excellent and the dokupuppy site is a great puppy resource.

Cheers

[bigpup]

People are starting to catch on to what I am trying to do, provide a listing of programs under main topic headings.
If you go to:


INDEX ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE

select a topic heading

you will go to a list of links to programs for that topic.

The big thing is, these Main Topic lists can be added to by ANYONE. If you find a program post, that is not listed, you can add a link to it in the appropriate main topic list. Some people have done this and also realized that when they post a link, it can give a brief info statement about the program.

One big thing about this, WE CAN ALL HELP to improve these lists and make it much easier to find all the great programs that are in the section ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff)

I started this less then a week ago and it looks like some people can see the benefit of making it easier to find programs in ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff). I have no problem adding to these lists and helping people find programs. I am not a programmer or very good at this stuff, but I did not want to come to this forum and just be a user.

What I do not understand are the people, that add programs to ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff), do not seem interested in trying to make this work. You would think that going to all the trouble of making a program, you would want to make it easy to find. It would take them 2 minutes to post a link to their new program post in the appropriate MAIN TOPIC List.

Anyone can add to these MAIN TOPIC lists. If you are one of the people that have.

THANKS!!!

[lstandish]

[Moved here from the UTILITIES thread]

bigpup, thanks for your effort at organization.

At the top of each program category thread you said,
"Program authors list your utility programs:"

However, you have made the postings on various programs yourself, rather than waiting for program authors to do it. So we (I'm the author of the snap2 backup program) cannot edit or add anything. For example, snap2 has a forum project page, but I can't add that to the snap2 listing here. Did you want us to send you material to edit/update our program entries?

[Flash]

... you have made the postings on various programs yourself, rather than waiting for program authors to do it. So we (I'm the author of the snap2 backup program) cannot edit or add anything. ...

Heh. Didn't think about that, huh bigpup?

How about this: Istandish, make a post to that thread, essentially duplicating what bigpup said in his post. Then, PM me the URL of both your post and bigpup's post (so I can compare them). If your post contains all the info in bigpup's post, I'll delete bigpup's post. That way you can edit your post.

(The URL of a post can be found by putting your arrow over the little rectangle with its corner turned down, just to the left of the word "Posted" at the top of the post.

[bigpup]

lstandish wrote:
... you have made the postings on various programs yourself, rather than waiting for program authors to do it. So we (I'm the author of the snap2 backup program) cannot edit or add anything. ...

Flash wrote:
Heh. Didn't think about that, huh bigpup? Laughing

How about this: Istandish, make a post to that thread, essentially duplicating what bigpup said in his post. Then, PM me the URL of both your post and bigpup's post (so I can compare them). If your post contains all the info in bigpup's post, I'll delete bigpup's post. That way you can edit your post.

(The URL of a post can be found by putting your arrow over the little rectangle with its corner turned down, just to the left of the word "Posted" at the top of the post.

Istandish and Flash,

Thank you for helping to make this work!!!!!!

I knew this would be a problem, but I started posting links to show what this idea could do. A picture is better then words!

This is a week old implementation of this idea. These are minor problems. This shows that I can not be the only one to post to these main topic lists.

If you are an author, of a program I have posted a link to, PM me with what you want changed in my post and I will change it.

l will stop posting links and give others a chance to add to and improve these MAIN TOPIC lists.

If the authors of programs would just post a link to their program post in the MAIN TOPIC LISTS my job would be done.

[bigpup]

Place holder.

[Pizzasgood]

Question: Why not just make some new subsections here for them? Like we did for the games. Then there wouldn't be any indexes at all, it would all be automatic. Of course, moving the existing threads would be a pain. (It took me a couple hours just for the games one back when I did that). But we could have thread authors PM us to move them, and maybe designate some moderators with limited abilities (mainly just "move topic", and confined to "Additional Software") to help.

[jabu2]

Can we make sure please, that the software repository(s) and its /their accessibility and indices, get top priority and focus? The gateway to additional software (and information about each program available) will always be the repositories available through the Puppy OS. That is the "natural" way people will work with Puppy. At present the Puppy repository system and issues are in flux. Puppy respositories are OK but not as good as they need to be for Puppy. The forum and e.g. the PuppyLinux.org information pages or whatever else is available outside Puppy itself (and let's face it there's multiple choices out there already), will always be important but secondary sources. With the advent of OS choices (Woof Dpup Upup Tpup Slaxer etc) the repository issues evolve, but will inevitably remain the crucial link to additional software.
New users (of any Puppy breed) just need to know they can get anything they are likely to need or want (and these are not the same thing) through their Puppy repository. Maybe for most users, they will already have everything they need in Puppy without even going to the repository - just explore the menus! Natural curiosity will then lead them further. Inevitable, and unstoppable. Just like a puppy? Focus on the repository, that's the thing (and apply Occam's razor whilst not forgetting Hickam's dictum)!

[Pizzasgood]

It isn't up to me and Flash. That is the domain of the people maintaining the Puppy lines.

For what it's worth, I would definitely like to see some improvement in that regard. I think probably one thing holding it back is liability concerns. Probably nobody wants to spend the time to vet them. I'm sure you could find volunteers, but they would have to be somebody that whoever is in charge of the repo trusts. Another issue is hosting space - yes there are occasionally random people who pop up and offer a lot of space to host things, but the problem is that they are random people. The owner of the repo would need to be one of the people working on the project so that they could have full control over it and so that it couldn't just disappear. Taking a more decentralized approach could help lessen those issues however.

There have been several interesting discussions in the past about how we could implement repositories. HairyWill even went so far as to write (as in document, not implement) an API for a somewhat decentralized repository system where they could talk to eachother and mirror portions of eachother. (At least, I think he included that part - it was definitely talked about anyway.) Implementing that would be pretty cool. It would probably need to use GPG signatures though, so that the packages from random distributed servers could be trusted. That wouldn't be too hard, but would be a change.


In a similar vein, Tombh had a really cool little program a year or two ago named "Petch" that would search several known (and cooperating) repositories for packages. The repos had a script they ran as a cronjob to maintain a list of the packages they offered, which petch would download and search through. It was pretty neat.


But for now, we have the forum.

[bigpup]

It would be wonderful if you could go to Puppy Package Manager and find every program made for Puppy Linux. But you can not. Maybe one day.

I think people are not fully understanding this idea:
Main Topic lists of links to program posts in the forum section ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff).

This is very simple. I have done it. It is working.
I am not trying to change how you find programs for Puppy Linux only how you find them in ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets,N' Stuff).

Keep it SIMPLE a wise man said!

All it takes to keep it working:

ANYONE that makes a new program post to ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff)

1. Go to INDEX ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE

2. Select a MAIN TOPIC ( should be one your program falls under)

3. Post a link to your program post (a little info about the program would be nice)

Simple, easy, takes less then 2 minutes.

Anyone can do it if they find a program post that is not in one of these MAIN TOPIC Lists.

People are already doing this.

THE KEY THING IS:
Everyone can help
Everyone can post
Everyone can edit

If one person has to control, all he needs to do is make sure it is working and help like everyone else.

Keep It Simple!!!!!!!!!!!

[bigpup]

Question: Why not just make some new subsections here for them? Like we did for the games. Then there wouldn't be any indexes at all, it would all be automatic. Of course, moving the existing threads would be a pain. (It took me a couple hours just for the games one back when I did that). But we could have thread authors PM us to move them, and maybe designate some moderators with limited abilities (mainly just "move topic", and confined to "Additional Software") to help.

Not a bad idea!

Two problems I see:

1. A normal post is not all that clear by just tittle of post.
Posting just a link to a program post you can also have an info statement about the program.
Some of the names given to programs do not make it easy to tell what it is for or what it does.
Subject description helps, but sometimes not.

2. You would get the post creep. As it gets older it will move page by page deeper into the subsection. This does not take long. I found some really good programs on page 25, 30, 40 etc. of ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N" Stuff)
My idea of MAIN TOPIC LISTS OF LINKS to PROGRAMS this creep does not happen.
A posted link stays where it is posted in the list of links.

Flash what do you think?

[jabu2]

Flash, in the initial response, correctly alerted us to the fact that Bigpup's idea has been tried before.
If the repository issues (as they develop) incorporate the information requirements, then the probability of a sustainable solution will rise.
The repository is the thing, no matter how many exclamation marks are used in denial.
A definition of what a repository is (functionally, as well as in form) could be a starting point? Get the function of the repositories sorted out, and anything remaining might fall into place (and perspective)?

[bigpup]

1. Somehow the information has to find its way into the index, which means the maintainer has to be told about new .pets and where they are.

2. links should be periodically checked to see that they are still good. Depending on people to let you know when a link is dead won't work. Even if they want to take the trouble, they won't know who to tell.

Response:

1. The Main Topic lists of links to programs can be edited by anyone. If you find a program not listed you can post a link to it.

2.Are posts made to ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff) ever removed? If the answer is NO, then this will never be an issue. The link will never be wrong unless the post it links to is removed.

[jabu2]

Please check what has been done /gone before, in this forum, from 2005 onwards and particularly in 2006 and 2008
- just use the Search function to find heaps on "additional software", repository functions and associated matters. You'll find many topics, lists, categorisations, dozens of thoughtful contributions on issues of form and function. These remain central issues for Puppy-we are all agreed on that.

Perhaps we shouldn't forget http://puppylinux.org and its place in the overall Puppy world?

Outside any actual Puppy software (ie the user's choice of Puppy variant, and its built-in package manager tool), Puppylinux.org is arguably the primary place for indices or listings (at least equal to the forum)?

If that is so, then efforts of bigpup and contributors to listings/indices should perhaps go to puppylinux.org ?

[bigpup]

Please check what has been done /gone before, in this forum, from 2005 onwards and particularly in 2006 and 2008
- just use the Search function to find heaps on "additional software", repository functions and associated matters. You'll find many topics, lists, categorisations, dozens of thoughtful contributions on issues of form and function. These remain central issues for Puppy-we are all agreed on that.

Perhaps we shouldn't forget http://puppylinux.org and its place in the overall Puppy world?

Outside any actual Puppy software (ie the user's choice of Puppy variant, and its built-in package manager tool), Puppylinux.org is arguably the primary place for indices or listings (at least equal to the forum)?

If that is so, then efforts of bigpup and contributors to listings/indices should perhaps go to puppylinux.org ?

So you are saying the forum section ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets n' Stuff) should just be a place to dump programs and find them by going threw page after page of posts, with no organization.

This is about one section of the forum, not all of Puppy Linux.
I refuse to just do nothing because something like this has been tried in the past.
Why am I using Puppy 4.3.1? Puppy 1.0 worked OK, so I do not need to try something new.

This idea works for me and others see some usefulness in it. Others are willing to help.
Are you?

[Pizzasgood]

2. You would get the post creep. As it gets older it will move page by page deeper into the subsection. This does not take long. I found some really good programs on page 25, 30, 40 etc. of ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N" Stuff)
My idea of MAIN TOPIC LISTS OF LINKS to PROGRAMS this creep does not happen.
A posted link stays where it is posted in the list of links.

I don't see how that's any different. It just means that instead of seeing the most recent stuff at the top, the oldest stuff will be at the "top" (beginning) and the newest stuff at the end.

Furthermore, when an older thread is replied to, it gets bumped, so that if it is still being used it has a better chance of staying nearer the top than stuff that is not used anymore. But with the indexed thread method they don't move.

Another benefit of subsections: When you search, you can specify the section or subsection to search within. So if you know the category of your query, the search can be more targeted. But you can't specify threads when searching, so you couldn't easily search through the indexes.

2.Are posts made to ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff) ever removed? If the answer is NO, then this will never be an issue. The link will never be wrong unless the post it links to is removed.

Generally, they are not removed. But the links to the actual download may become broken over time, if a mirror goes down or a website moves. Of course, that can happen anyway, regardless of which method is used.

[bigpup]

Pizzasgood ,

Are we having fun yet. I am. I love a good back and forth discussion. Like I said before, I like your idea too.
If I understand, your idea is what is at the top when you go to ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets N' Stuff).

Drivers
Eye Candy
Games

how has this been working out?

My idea is 2 weeks old, it seems to be working and some people are helping.
I do not think anything is going to be 100%
Some of this seems to be just the way the forum works.
What we need is a company PUPPY LINUX and a building full of people.

Test:
Anybody
GO TO:
ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets N' Stuff)
INDEX ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE
SETUP
find a link about video drivers

NOW:
GO TO:
ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets N' Stuff)
At the top go to DRIVERS
find the same post as above

What do you think?

[Pizzasgood]

Sure, it's easy now while the index is empty. What about in a year from now? At that point if I want to find some specific item, I would have to manually look through many pages. Or, I could go to "Search" and specify which category of the forum to search in. I could set it to show excerpts of the posts that it matches as well.

Actually, I wouldn't use either method. I mostly don't use .pet packages. I just go track down the source and compile that. But I'm weird.

As for whether they've been working, it seems that way. I haven't heard any complaints about it anyway. There seem to be a lot of games in the games section, and plenty of eye candy in the eye candy section.

What does everybody think? Do we want to do it the indexed way or just make subsections (which I guess wouldn't prevent anybody from indexing anyway)?

Any reasons why I shouldn't add some subsections?