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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
SAVE MYSQL - Oracle can have Sun, but not MYSQL
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jan 2010, 20:55    Post subject:  SAVE MYSQL - Oracle can have Sun, but not MYSQL
Subject description: It says here....
 

Shameless plug!

Quote:
SAVE MYSQL
Oracle can have Sun, but not MYSQL

If Oracle buys MySQL as part of Sun, database customers will pay the bill.

In April 2009, Oracle announced that it had agreed to acquire Sun. Since Sun had acquired MySQL the previous year, this would mean that Oracle, the market leader for closed source databases, would get to own MySQL, the most popular open source database.

If Oracle acquired MySQL on that basis, it would have as much control over MySQL as money can possibly buy over an open source project. In fact, for most open source projects (such as Linux or Apache) there isn't any comparable way for a competitor to buy even one tenth as much influence. But MySQL's success has always depended on the company behind it that develops, sells and promotes it. That company (initially MySQL AB, then Sun) has always owned the important intellectual property rights (IPRs), most notably the trademark, copyright and (so far only for defensive purposes) patents. It has used the IPRs to produce income and has reinvested a large part of those revenues in development, getting not only bigger but also better with time.

If those IPRs fall into the hands of MySQL's primary competitor, then MySQL immediately ceases to be an alternative to Oracle's own high-priced products. So far, customers had the choice to use MySQL in new projects instead of Oracle's products. Some large companies even migrated (switched) from Oracle to MySQL for existing software solutions. And every one could credibly threaten Oracle's salespeople with using MySQL unless a major discount was granted. If Oracle owns MySQL, it will only laugh when customers try this. Getting rid of this problem is easily worth one billion dollars a year to Oracle, if not more.


http://helpmysql.org/en/theissue/customerspaythebill

Sign the Petition! ...go here

http://helpmysql.org/en/petition



Simple question....

Is it possible [for Oracle] to buy an Open Source software, [MYSQL] and make it closed source?

Surely there's a breach of contract under the original open source licence?

From their webpage...

"MYSQL The world's most popular Open Source database"

http://www.mysql.com/

Funny there's nothing on MYSQL website about this!!

....other than

Quote:
Oracle to Buy Sun

20 April 2009 — Sun Microsystems and Oracle Corporation announced today they have entered into a definitive agreement under which Oracle will acquire Sun common stock for $9.50 per share in cash. The transaction is valued at approximately $7.4 billion, or $5.6 billion net of Sun's cash and debt.


Latest news

Quote:
Jan 29th - Oracle regard the deal as a done deal even if Russia and China have not had their say.


http://helpmysql.org/en/news

Aitch Smile
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 7217

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jan 2010, 22:45    Post subject:  

You might remember someone who frequented Downing street for a while who, encouraged by some economist, believed private enterprise created an environment of rapid development coupled with efficiency.
Unfortunately the dim-witted chemist failed to realise that the ultimate aim of any business is to have a monopoly of it's market where efficiency and development can be quietly forgotten. Wink

mike
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clarf


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 612
Location: The old Lone Wolf

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jan 2010, 09:13    Post subject:  

You can find related information in: http://www.oracle.com/us/sun/index.htm

INFORMATION FOR CUSTOMERS AND PARTNERS

From Oracle and Sun Overview and FAQ:

Quote:
What are Oracle’s plans for MySQL?
Oracle plans to spend more money developing MySQL than Sun does now.
Oracle expects to continue to develop and provide the open source MySQL
database. Oracle plans to add MySQL to Oracle’s existing suite of database
products, which already includes Berkeley DB, an open source database.
Oracle also currently offers InnoDB, an open source transactional storage
engine and the most important and popular transaction engine under
MySQL. Oracle already distributes MySQL as part of our Enterprise Linux
offering.


Oracle's Support for Open Source and Open Standards:

http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/open-source/index.htm

Oracle´s contributions to Open Source:

http://www.oracle.com/technology/oramag/oracle/09-jul/o49opensource.html


Oracle's Technical Contributions to Linux

http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/linux/026042.htm

Related links:

http://oss.oracle.com/

http://www.oracle.com/database/berkeley-db/index.html


Greetings,
clarf
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jan 2010, 09:38    Post subject:  

Many thanks, clarf

Concern over, then?

It was considered important enough to warrant a petition, and news [my last link] of over-riding Russian/Chinese views still concerns me, at least

Aitch Smile
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 7217

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jan 2010, 12:37    Post subject:  

Well if it was a threat then you could fork it just before from the already stable code and call it MyQSL and carry on being free. Laughing

mike
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DMcCunney

Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jan 2010, 14:40    Post subject: Re: SAVE MYSQL - Oracle can have Sun, but not MYSQL
Subject description: It says here....
 

Aitch wrote:

Simple question....

Is it possible [for Oracle] to buy an Open Source software, [MYSQL] and make it closed source?

Surely there's a breach of contract under the original open source licence?

Nope. Closed source forks of open source projects are quite possible and legal.

Let's say you write code and release your program under the GPL. It's your code, you own the copyright, and you chose to apply the GPL to it.

I contact you about doing a closed source version. We make a deal, and you agree to it. You grant me the rights to make a closed source fork in exchange for consideration (I paid you an acceptable amount). It's your code, and you can do that.

I make a closed source version, not licensed under the GPL.

Sun bought the outfit that made MySQL, and Oracle bought Sun. Oracle now owns the rights to the product, and could kill it or make it closed source.

In fact, worries over Oracle killing off MySQL are unneeded. Oracle is many things, but stupid isn't one of them. They know the majority of implementations of MySQL both don't need full Oracle 10G and couldn't afford it in any case.

They don't have to make MySQL closed source or charge for it to make money from it. The business model is like Red Hat's: the software is open source and free. What you pay for is a support contract.
______
Dennis
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sat 30 Jan 2010, 16:09    Post subject:  

Thanks for the 'simple yet clear' clarification, Dennis

That's puzzled me for ages Very Happy

I think I agree with your support/maintenance assessment, too, as Oracle is essentially a service oriented company, AFAIK

& I understood Oracle 10/11G to be a far bigger fish in the database ocean, and on a totally different licensing model ....

- though maybe they'll just change that for MYSQL?

Aitch Smile
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DMcCunney

Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 10:59    Post subject:  

Aitch wrote:
Thanks for the 'simple yet clear' clarification, Dennis

That's puzzled me for ages Very Happy

You're quite welcome. The key point is that you own the code, and can do with it as you will. Choosing to release it under the GPL does not diminish your ownership or rights - it simply imposes restrictions on what others can do with it.

You can choose to give up all rights, and release the code to the public domain whereupon anyone can pick it up and do anything with it, but again, that's your choice as owner.

Quote:
I think I agree with your support/maintenance assessment, too, as Oracle is essentially a service oriented company, AFAIK

& I understood Oracle 10/11G to be a far bigger fish in the database ocean, and on a totally different licensing model ....

- though maybe they'll just change that for MYSQL?

What, go to a "charge for the software" model?

That might be killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. I don't see why Oracle would try it. As mentioned upthread, someone could take the last open source version and fork a new product (YourSQL?) and things would go on.

But models like Red Hat's are an inevitable outgrowth of open source. Back when, it was an uphill battle to get open source software accepted in corporations, because the first question asked would be "Who do we call if it breaks?" With outfits like Red Hat and Canonical (Ubuntu), there is someone to call if it breaks. Corporations are accustomed to paying for support contracts, and like having them. They routinely pay for support on purchased products.

CentOS is the open source version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. The code is exactly the same. Only the branding differs. Running CentOS and decide you want support? There's an RPM you can install that changes it to Red Hat branding, whereupon you call Red Hat and say "Hi. I'm running Red Hat Enterprise and would like a support contract. What are my options?" Razz
______
Dennis
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clarf


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 612
Location: The old Lone Wolf

PostPosted: Wed 24 Feb 2010, 15:00    Post subject:  

SUN FAQ Video Blog regarding the Sun acquisition

http://blogs.oracle.com/judsonalthoff/2010/02/week_7_dont_be_blinded_by_the.html
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed 24 Feb 2010, 15:32    Post subject:  

Sadly clarf, no mention of mysql....however, as at Dec 2009:

Quote:
Oracle has engaged in constructive discussions with the European Commission regarding the concerns expressed by the Commission about the Oracle/Sun Microsystems transaction, and in particular the maintenance of MySQL as a competitive force in the database market.

In order further to reassure the Commission, Oracle hereby publicly commits to the following:


List follows, then

Quote:
This press release contains certain forward-looking statements about Oracle, Sun and MySQL, including statements that involve risks and uncertainties such as the satisfaction of conditions to closing the transaction, including clearance of the transaction by the European Commission. When used in this press release, the words “shall,” “plans,” “commits” and “will” and other similar expressions and any other statements that are not historical facts are intended to identify those assertions as forward-looking statements. Any such statement is subject to a number of potential risks and uncertainties, which may include, among others, the possibility that the transaction will not be cleared by relevant regulatory authorities, the transaction may not otherwise close or that the closing of the proposed transaction may be further delayed and the possibility that Oracle or Sun may be adversely affected by other economic, business, and/or competitive factors. Accordingly, no assurances can be given that the European Commission will clear the transaction, that the closing will transpire or occur, or if these events occur, what impact they will have on the results of operations or financial condition of Oracle or Sun.

In addition, please refer to the documents that Oracle and Sun, respectively, file with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC") on Forms 10-K, 10-Q and 8-K for additional risks. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date of this press release. Neither Oracle nor Sun is under any duty to update any of the information in this press release.


Full article

http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/042364

Not settled yet, then?

Aitch Smile
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DMcCunney

Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Wed 24 Feb 2010, 16:20    Post subject:  

Aitch wrote:

List follows, then

Quote:
This press release contains certain forward-looking statements about Oracle, Sun and MySQL, including statements that involve risks and uncertainties such as the satisfaction of conditions to closing the transaction, including clearance of the transaction by the European Commission. When used in this press release, the words “shall,” “plans,” “commits” and “will” and other similar expressions and any other statements that are not historical facts are intended to identify those assertions as forward-looking statements. Any such statement is subject to a number of potential risks and uncertainties, which may include, among others, the possibility that the transaction will not be cleared by relevant regulatory authorities, the transaction may not otherwise close or that the closing of the proposed transaction may be further delayed and the possibility that Oracle or Sun may be adversely affected by other economic, business, and/or competitive factors. Accordingly, no assurances can be given that the European Commission will clear the transaction, that the closing will transpire or occur, or if these events occur, what impact they will have on the results of operations or financial condition of Oracle or Sun.

In addition, please refer to the documents that Oracle and Sun, respectively, file with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC") on Forms 10-K, 10-Q and 8-K for additional risks. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date of this press release. Neither Oracle nor Sun is under any duty to update any of the information in this press release.


Not settled yet, then?

Assume it will be settled. The bit you quote above is standard "cover your ass" boilerplate you will see on any such transaction until all legal I's are dotted ant T's are crossed. The folks involved don't wish to be sued for not doing things they may not be allowed to do by laws or regulatory agencies. It's a "Don't make bets on the stock until the dust settles, and if you do, it's on you if it doesn't work out!" statement.

In any such transaction, there will be a number of stakeholders whose fears must be allayed and whose egos must be stroked. That's what's happening now.

As mentioned, it would be stupid for Oracle to meddle with MySQL.
______
Dennis
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sat 27 Feb 2010, 15:22    Post subject:  

Maybe of passing interest only...

Tim Bray, the Director of Web Technologies at Sun/Oracle, resigned today, 1st March 2010

http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/

Aitch Smile
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