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shinobar
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Windows recovery on HDD

#151 Post by shinobar »

nooby wrote:# fdisk -l /dev/sda

Disk /dev/sda: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 1567 12586896 27 Unknown
/dev/sda2 * 1568 1580 104422+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3 1581 30402 231506210 7 HPFS/NTFS
Thanks for your PC's information.
Humm.. the first partition (Unknown) is questionable. Can you see inside sda1 from Puppy?
Will you show me the result of probepart?

Code: Select all

probepart
I guess:
  • sda1 is the recovery system.
  • sda2 is normal boot of Windows, you can see 'Boot' directory in it?
  • sda3 is where main Windows system, you can see 'Windows' directory in it? And maybe this is 'C:' from the Windows 7.
Right?
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]

nooby
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#152 Post by nooby »

Sorry delay have to go buy food. :)
# probepart
/dev/sda1|ntfs|25173792
/dev/sda2|ntfs|208844
/dev/sda3|ntfs|463012420
#

Sda1 have

acerboot
boot
systemvolumeinformation
factory
sources

and it have mbr
and your mbr backup sda_mbr.bak
and menu.lst

Sda2 have
boot
systemvolumeinformation
bootmgr


Sda3 has
all the rest. windows and puppy and most likely is seen as root.

So the boot mbr backup and menu.lst seems to have ended up in the recovery partition?

Unless sda2 is something else?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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shinobar
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recovery partition

#153 Post by shinobar »

nooby wrote:# probepart
/dev/sda1|ntfs|25173792
/dev/sda2|ntfs|208844
/dev/sda3|ntfs|463012420
What i guessed.
nooby wrote:So the boot mbr backup and menu.lst seems to have ended up in the recovery partition?
Unless sda2 is something else?
Maybe no problem the grldr, menu.lst and sda_mbr.bak on sda1 when Puppy can access them.
The problem was the boot menu mislead to the recovery windows on sda1 instead of the usual Windows boot from sda2.
It is fixed with grub4dosconfig v1.6.1 and later.
Thanks.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]

nooby
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#154 Post by nooby »

So what do you suggest the poor fellow that complained to Barry should do.

As I get it he had same problem like I had only that he actually used the recovery not being aware of that one needed to change the menu.lst like you told me to.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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shinobar
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MBR issue

#155 Post by shinobar »

nooby wrote:So what do you suggest the poor fellow that complained to Barry should do.
As I get it he had same problem like I had only that he actually used the recovery not being aware of that one needed to change the menu.lst like you told me to.
I am sorry with the broomdodger case and sorry i was lacking knowledge on the special installation of windows.
But i believe recent grub4dosconfig is safe thanks to the information from nooby and Barry.
I know the way ICPUG provides are safe as for the Windows Xp, because it is easy to edit 'boot.ini' in case Windows Xp.
But we also needs univarsal way when the Windows 7 era. I think it is not safe for newbies editing boot configurations manually.

We may need to encourage to make rescue media to see how it works before applying the grub4dos on the hard disk.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61348
Of course i proceed refining the grub4dosconfig more easy and safe.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]

nooby
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#156 Post by nooby »

Thanks Shinobar,

much appreciated that you care.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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broomdodger
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA

grub and Lin'N'Win

#157 Post by broomdodger »

grub and Lin'N'Win
I had trouble with grub4dos on this particular machine, HP Media Center m7160n with Windows XP. I do not know if it was the MBR or the menu.lst. I tried fixmbr, fixboot and many different menu.lst settings with no joy. Previously on several other machines I installed grub or grub4dos no problem.

Not being able to gracefully recover the WinXP install, I let System Recover do its thing, grrr, then all the Windows updates and hours later the WinXP is running again. I lost time but no data, well this PC tower is going to a friend so there really was not much to lose.

That said, I ALWAYS want the option to boot Windows or Linux, though Linux is where I work.

Why would anyone choose to do a grub[4dos] install that would write the MBR?

NOW I know there is a safer and simpler alternative!
Thank you for all the suggestions, especially "Lin'N'Win".
<http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/linnwi ... innwin.htm>

Next task... restore the MBR on a working grub install and change to "Lin'N'Win".

Has anyone sucessfully used "Lin'N'Win" with Windows ME?

ICPUG
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#158 Post by ICPUG »

broomdodger,

No one has successfully used Lin'N'Win with Windows ME unless they have seriously messed with ME!

ME has real mode DOS turned off - in an effort to speed the boot process (and pretend that Windows is not reliant on DOS?).

Lin'N'Win hooks into the Windows 9X boot process via config.sys which uses real mode DOS.

It IS possible to turn real mode DOS back on. Google for 'windows me real mode' and you will see links. Once you do that it should be possible to use Lin'N'Win but I don't know of anyone who has done it.

May I also take the opportunity to ask you to read the technical page on the Lin'N'Win site about the changes needed if Windows is not located on the first partition of the first disk, which Shinobar thinks was the reason for your problems on that HP Media Centre PC. Lin'N'Win will not break Windows if this is the case but it needs some adjustment to menu.lst to get Linux booted.

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#159 Post by nooby »

broomdodger,

Here is the menu.lst code that Shinobar gave me and that actually did work.

You could at least try it. If it goes to teh wrong part you only have to gracefully shut down from windows.

Nothing wrong can happen as long as you don't say yes to any command they ask for to get completed.

I had same experience as you but did not go ahead with the recover process. I backed out of that one and asked Shinobar what to do instead and he came up with a working solution

# Windows

title Windows Vista/2008/7\nBoot up Windows Vista/2008/7 if installed
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /bootmgr

As I get it this allow me to boot any OS on the machine as long as I get code to the initrd if it is a puppie or maybe initrd.lz if it is older type ubuntu.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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broomdodger
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA

#160 Post by broomdodger »

ICPUG wrote:broomdodger,
No one has successfully used Lin'N'Win with Windows ME unless they have seriously messed with ME!

ME has real mode DOS turned off - in an effort to speed the boot process (and pretend that Windows is not reliant on DOS?).

Lin'N'Win hooks into the Windows 9X boot process via config.sys which uses real mode DOS.

It IS possible to turn real mode DOS back on. Google for 'windows me real mode' and you will see links. Once you do that it should be possible to use Lin'N'Win but I don't know of anyone who has done it.
Thank you, for the info about WinME. From the (your?) Lin'N'Win site it seemed given that it worked. I keep some old PCs around for testing. On that WinME PC I will go back to grub and MBR as it worked.
ICPUG wrote:May I also take the opportunity to ask you to read the technical page on the Lin'N'Win site about the changes needed if Windows is not located on the first partition of the first disk, which Shinobar thinks was the reason for your problems on that HP Media Centre PC. Lin'N'Win will not break Windows if this is the case but it needs some adjustment to menu.lst to get Linux booted.
I thought I mentioned having another PC configured similarly, partitions, wary, menu.lst and it worked writing the MBR, but not this HP Media Center. It has been "restored", upgraded and is going to a friend. So... I will never know the problem.

But... I have some other PCs not spoken for that I will try.

Question: I read, maybe on the Lin'N'Win site, something about compatibility with Windows 7 and Lin'N'Win -- that it may be more compatible to use grub4dos. What can you tell me about that?
-Bill

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broomdodger
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#161 Post by broomdodger »

nooby wrote:Here is the menu.lst code that Shinobar gave me and that actually did work.

You could at least try it. If it goes to teh wrong part you only have to gracefully shut down from windows.

Nothing wrong can happen as long as you don't say yes to any command they ask for to get completed.

I had same experience as you but did not go ahead with the recover process. I backed out of that one and asked Shinobar what to do instead and he came up with a working solution

# Windows

title Windows Vista/2008/7\nBoot up Windows Vista/2008/7 if installed
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /bootmgr

As I get it this allow me to boot any OS on the machine as long as I get code to the initrd if it is a puppie or maybe initrd.lz if it is older type ubuntu.
Thank you, nooby. That is for Vista/2008/7 and I am using XP.

My menu.lst was similar but chainloader pointing to ntldr. I tried both of these, same problem:

title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /ntldr

title Windows XP
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

But 'either' of these worked on another similarly configured PC, same partitions, etc.

-Bill

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shinobar
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Special Windows (HP m7160n)

#162 Post by shinobar »

broomdodger wrote:My menu.lst was similar but chainloader pointing to ntldr. I tried both of these, same problem:

title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /ntldr

title Windows XP
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

But 'either' of these worked on another similarly configured PC, same partitions, etc.
Thanks Bill for joining us.
Can you find from Puppy 'ntrldr' at /mnt/sda1 or /mnt/sda2, or somewhere else?
Is it hidden somewhere?
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]

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shinobar
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Chainload

#163 Post by shinobar »

Or, simply we could do:
Title Windows on /dev/sda2
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader +1
See another variations:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 691#466691
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]

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broomdodger
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Re: Special Windows (HP m7160n)

#164 Post by broomdodger »

shinobar wrote:Can you find from Puppy 'ntrldr' at /mnt/sda1 or /mnt/sda2, or somewhere else?
Is it hidden somewhere?
Are you asking where ntldr is located? If yes, /mnt/sda2.

Yes it is a hidden protected operating system file when viewed from Windows, easy to see from a Puppy.
It is the WinXT and Win2000 loader ie based on "NT Technology" also known as c:\ntldr

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shinobar
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Re: Special Windows (HP m7160n)

#165 Post by shinobar »

broomdodger wrote:
shinobar wrote:Can you find from Puppy 'ntrldr' at /mnt/sda1 or /mnt/sda2, or somewhere else?
Is it hidden somewhere?
Are you asking where ntldr is located? If yes, /mnt/sda2.
Thanks, broomdodger. I believe the grub4dosconfig v1.6.1 and later can manage. But also i am refining it more safe and easy.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]

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artifus
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#166 Post by artifus »

apologies if this has already been covered, haven't read the entire thread yet, but thought i'd post a quick report here anyway incase it helps.

old xp desktop machine with a few puppies to play with, currently: luci238, lupu 511, quirky1.3 and wary098. others come and go, all frugals in their own folders (oops! sorry, i mean directories...) on an ext2 partition.

grub4dos run from quirky fails to boot xp, reporting error 15. grub4dos run from luci238 fails to find quirky (labeled puppy in quirky grub4dos) but does boot into xp. didn't think to compare menu.lst before deleting old as i've only just noticed the behaviour but will do next time i need to pop into xp - but that may not be for some time...
Last edited by artifus on Thu 25 Nov 2010, 13:53, edited 1 time in total.

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shinobar
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some fails to boot

#167 Post by shinobar »

artifus wrote:grub4dos run from quirky fails to boot xp, reporting error 15. grub4dos run from luci238 fails to find quirky (labeled puppy in quirky grub4dos) but does boot into xp. didn't think to compare menu.lst before deleting old as i've only just noticed the behaviour but will do next time
The menu.lst would help us. Thanks.
Downloads for Puppy Linux [url]http://shino.pos.to/linux/downloads.html[/url]

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artifus
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#168 Post by artifus »

current menu.lst with no xp boot generated by quirky 1.3:

# menu.lst produced by grb4dosconf
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
timeout 10
default 0

title luci
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /luci238/initrd.gz
kernel /luci238/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=luci238
initrd /luci238/initrd.gz

title lupu
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /lucid/initrd.gz
kernel /lucid/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=lucid
initrd /lucid/initrd.gz

title quirky
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /quirky/initrd.gz
kernel /quirky/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=quirky
initrd /quirky/initrd.gz

title wary
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /wary/initrd.gz
kernel /wary/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=wary
initrd /wary/initrd.gz

title xp
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /bootmgr
chainloader /bootmgr

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
commandline

title Reboot computer
reboot

title Halt computer
halt

will post luci238 generated list with booting xp but no listed quirky later

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artifus
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#169 Post by artifus »

generated by luci238 - xp boots, but no quriky and luci
fails to find save file.


# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title luci
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /luci238/initrd.gz
kernel /luci238/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=luci238 pfix=ram
initrd /luci238/initrd.gz

title luci RAM mode\nBoot up Puppy withot pupsave
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /luci238/initrd.gz
kernel /luci238/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=luci238 pfix=ram,ram
initrd /luci238/initrd.gz

title lupu
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /lucid/initrd.gz
kernel /lucid/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=lucid pfix=ram
initrd /lucid/initrd.gz

title wary
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /wary/initrd.gz
kernel /wary/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=wary pfix=ram
initrd /wary/initrd.gz

# Windows
# this entry searches Windows on the HDD and boot it up
title xp\nBoot up Windows if installed
errorcheck off
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /bootmgr
chainloader /bootmgr
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /io.sys
chainloader /io.sys
errorcheck on

# additionals

title Find Grub2\nBoot up grub2 if installed
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/core.img
kernel /boot/grub/core.img

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
commandline

title Reboot computer
reboot

title Halt computer
halt

hope this helps

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rcrsn51
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Location: Stratford, Ontario

#170 Post by rcrsn51 »

artifus wrote:generated by luci238 - xp boots, but no quriky and luci
fails to find save file.
That's because all your entries have "pfix=ram".

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