Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Fri 21 Nov 2014, 13:57
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
"Just Works" Configuration of Ethernet at bootup
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
Page 2 of 5 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Author Message
drongo


Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 354
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 18:13    Post_subject:  

@tlchost,

tubby has told you how to do it. Nobody has told you you can't do it. There aren't any rules, obscure or otherwise, as far as I know that prevent you from doing whatever you want with your version of Puppy. You might have to make sources available - but even that is moot as most of what makes Puppy unique is uncompiled bash scripts so no sources are required.

I was merely trying to explain to ecomoney why things were originally done that way (i.e. no autoconnect to networks) and why I think it would be a good idea to stay that way.

Nobody else manages to stay on topic, don't see why that rule should only apply to me. I was using an example to try and illustrate a point, Changing the default network behaviour of Puppy changes the way Puppy works and may then make it unsuitable for some types of work for which it is currently eminently suitable. If I'm trying to recover data files or remove viruses from a machine maybe I don't want to connect to a network. Perhaps I don't want to disconnect the ethernet connections from the rear of the machine either.

With all due respect, and no matter how laudable the intent, specialist Puppies for internet cafes and non-technical Silver Surfers are special interest projects.

The deafening silence from others shows me that there is no support for my position or that no-one cares either way. So I shall withdraw and sulk.

Bye.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
runtt21


Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 1650
Location: BigD Texas

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 18:26    Post_subject:  

drongo ,you are correct.The official puppy should stay just like it is.It great!!

If someone wants an autoconnect pup ,THEY, should build it. Even if its just a prof of concept project.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 18:58    Post_subject: Re: "Just Works" Configuration of Ethernet at bootup
Sub_title: Just about every other OS does it, why not puppy?
 

ecomoney wrote:
Puppy is great at detecting hardware and "Just Working", but for one subtle point. ... [snip] ... Could this be an oversight?

At the risk of reigniting heated debates of days gone by, it is important to note that neither Puppy nor any other distribution will "just work" for everyone! There will always be "one subtle point" that grates on someone's nerves, as this does on yours.

The great thing about Puppy is the ease with which people can remaster the original to their own taste. I'm with drongo and runtt21 on this - that Puppy is fine as it is. Even newbies can use a "Connect" icon to get their network running if they wish. Although the Internet has become ubiquitous, not everyone wants to go there from the first boot.

You asked for a reason and the answer is "freedom of choice", which is at the heart not only of Puppy but of all FOSS.

@tclhost - Thom, I agree your request was a reasonable one. I hope you now have your answer

@drongo - some people just rub other people the wrong way without even trying. Heck, I may even be guilty of that myself at times, but the OP is a past master! I don't see any "groundswell" of opinion driving Puppy away from its original philosophy of being a LiveCD. If you are concerned about changes to that philosophy, the project leader for the next base Puppy release and current guardian of that philosophy is Technosaurus. Wink

_________________
Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't!
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
MinHundHettePerro


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 855
Location: SE

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 19:37    Post_subject:  

As it is, Puppy Just Works!

For any new flavour of Puppy I try out (mostly, manually installed frugals), upon first boot, i.e. when the OP's requested auto-connection to the internet fails, I can happily forget to pull out the cable between my computer and my router. I can then, at my own pace, set up a firewall, disable the various auto-update features of any given browser etc., before I click the connect to i-net icon, and then go on-line within seconds, "and It Just Works!" (reassured that I set up my new installation as I require, before any auto-connection unadvertantly goes onto the internet and connects to who-knows-where, "google", even Shocked ).
I'm quite happy, with not having to care, whether my i-net cable is disconnected or not for my first boots Smile.

fwiw Smile/
MHHP

_________________
Celeron 2.8 GHz, 1 GB, i82845, many ptns, modes 12, 13
Dual Xeon 3.2 GHz, 1 GB, nvidia quadro nvs 285

Slackos & 214X, ... and Q6xx
Nämen, vaf.... ln -s /dev/null MHHP
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
T_B

Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 20:03    Post_subject:  

I think a "just works" configuration is a very good idea. You could make it the default choice when you boot a cd and are only presented with something like "you want to Puppy to set-up your internet connection automatically? Y/n"
Puppy is already one of the easiest Linux distro's to install for new to Linux users, and this will make it even easier.

Of course you can create your own Puppy, but that is not the one newbies will download. They will download the official version and will complain internet doesn't work with Linux.
To make as much as possible work 'out of the box' is a big selling point.

Most posters on this forum are already into Linux, but how many people have tried one Linux distro failed and never tried again? Might be because of things like this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 21:09    Post_subject:    

Ive got a guy here who worked in his last job was a manager in a call centre where they sent out cable modems. The story from him is that the majority of people do not know how to set up their own internet connection.

Puppy linux could be both a LiveCD, and a installable distro... and a learning tool.

A "best fit" solution for all puppy internet connection policy to this process.

When an application requiring an internet/network connection is launched, check to see if there is an active ethernet connection, and if so off to connect with it. This option dialog should also have a "connect another way...", and "help.." buttons, which opens the current internet connection wizard, or displays a tutorial on internet connections. (Do I need to start quoting the mission statement again?)

Thinking positively gets things done Cool

_________________
Puppy Linux's Mission

Sorry, my server is down atm!
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website MSNM 
WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 22:29    Post_subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
When an application requiring an internet/network connection is launched, check to see if there is an active ethernet connection, and if so off to connect with it. This option dialog should also have a "connect another way...", and "help.." buttons, which opens the current internet connection wizard, or displays a tutorial on internet connections.

Now THIS I can agree would be an excellent feature. Are you volunteering to develop it?

ecomoney wrote:
(Do I need to start quoting the mission statement again?)

Oh please! Ask 20 people to interpret the same "mission statement" and you'll get 20 different versions! It's a statement of aims, not a manifesto! Rolling Eyes

ecomoney wrote:
Thinking positively gets things done Cool

No, actually DOING things gets things done! Thinking positively is at best wishful thinking and at worst a bone lazy approach to life. (Do I need to keep pointing out my signature?) Wink

_________________
Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't!
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8609

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jan 2010, 23:54    Post_subject:  

Well since auto connection to a ethernet based network is the default for every other live distro I've tried i can assume the only reason it is not is because dhcpcd in puppy is buggy and fails for many people....about 4 posts per week and the many more who do not bother to go that far.

mike

ps most new broadband users here now get an auto connecting router/modem and auto connection would get them online without pressing a button....why should only windows get the user friendly label?
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan 2010, 00:20    Post_subject:  

tubby wrote:
Try adding to your /startup dir

snip
Quote:

Worked ok for me on a frugal install, found and connected to ETH0.
You may not need all of the above but i went for belt and braces. Laughing


Before I confuse myself further....if the items you cited are in startup, then they run at every boot of Puppy?

I was hoping to do something that only ran at the first boot of Puppy, as happens with the video and sound setups.

Thanks
Thom
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5930
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan 2010, 00:23    Post_subject:  

Just to throw in my recent experience with distros that auto connect to wired ethernet, there are a lot that don't.

The latest Mandriva release does not connect on any of the three machines I tried with the live cd, even though the "blinky" showed an active connection.To connect(according to their forum and wiki) its necessary to setup the firewall and disable IPV6, save the changes and reboot. Kind of hard to save and reboot running live. I installed Mandriva anyway and after I was able to save the changes everything works but I'd really preferred to just have Puppy's trusty Network Wizard.

I try most of the "big name" releases and a lot of them are having the same problems and have forum threads about " my computer won't connect".Some users have problems while others don't, but if it doesn't work on all equipment it still need further development.

Anyone is free to make a puplet to autoconnect to the internet, it might be a good idea.....just not for the default Puppy release. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan 2010, 02:53    Post_subject:  

I can see why it couldn't autoconnect at startup to lan internet, there always be the default network wizard on the desktop, for dialup, lan.wireless etc. Like my tv pc that has 2 nic cards in it, If it was to auto connect it would probably go with the first eth0 where as my actual net is eth1, but most users would be eth0, really if the default script was hacked and it just selected the first etho and then selected Auto dhcp and didn't save the settings, it would work. but first it should check and make sure no previous setting are saved, you wouldn't want it to delete wireless settings etc.
ttuuxxx

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
tubby

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan 2010, 04:25    Post_subject:  

@tlchost, the original poster asked for a way to connect automatically i tried it and it seemed to work. as i am still learning about puppy and linux in general my ways of doing things are probably the worst way but as i said i am still learning.
I was hoping that someone more knowledgeable would be able to use the method and write a wrapper with a firewall loading script.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan 2010, 05:00    Post_subject:  

Firewall and ipv6 involved. Very advanced stuff for us newbies indeed.

Puppeee 4.3.1 just worked for me on both machines. Why did that one work when the others don't or ???

have to run.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8609

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan 2010, 12:02    Post_subject:  

Quote:
its necessary to setup the firewall and disable IPV6,

its this sort of high brow crap that puts people off linux and thankfully distros like puppy don't try to make life a geek paradise hence my desire for this ability....other distros that want to be used do it.
If it does not connect then nothing lost really, or can these major releases not cope with that?

mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan 2010, 13:34    Post_subject:  

I could code an ethernet connection script, and someone better than me at bash coding could put together a far better script than me a lot faster. This is the benefit of working collectively.

Patriot has already written a routine (which still needs testing) here on this thread...which contains an example of a badly coded connection script written by me.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=45629

This could be used as the "guts" of the proposed "easy connect" routine. as could code from the /usr/sbin/net-setup script which has already been extensively tested. I say "easy-connect" because of the dangers the developers on this thread have explained. Its also important to listen to pensioners (one of the largest internet groups) and cybercafe owners (Linux "showroom") as well as developers.

_________________
Puppy Linux's Mission

Sorry, my server is down atm!
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website MSNM 
Display_posts:   Sort by:   
Page 2 of 5 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Jump to:  

Rules_post_cannot
Rules_reply_cannot
Rules_edit_cannot
Rules_delete_cannot
Rules_vote_cannot
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1113s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0142s) ][ GZIP on ]