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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Alternative pup_save formats.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8034

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 12:33    Post subject:  

Hey Jim...I don't like the look of this....
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=52002
something to watch out for

mike
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2445
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 13:38    Post subject:  

Mike,

Thanks for the heads up, I saw that also, hope that it's a false alarm.

Maybe we need to move on to ext4. Although, I've been unable to make a frugal install that is recognized by my favorites. No problem with full install where I do use ext4.

Jim
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8034

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 13:46    Post subject:  

Hmm progress does not necessarily mean better and breaking support for a very common filesystem makes me wary generally. That's why my day to day puppy is based on 2.12. Have you considered reiserfs?

mike
edit...
Quote:
Maybe we need to move on to ext4
..maybe that's the idea but I hate being railroaded.....that's something microsoft do all the time.
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2445
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 14:53    Post subject:  

Hi Mike

No, I haven't used reiserfs. Does Grub.097 recognize frugal pup installations? What type of pupsave would you use? I would think that 3fs would work, but how would you enable journaling?

If your hardware supports it, you are really missing out if you aren't trying the latest dpup, upup, and Lighthouse. For serious work, I'm normally in Lighthouse or Ubuntu.

I'm late on the puppy scene so I didn't ever check out the 2 series. Barry was switching from the 3 to 4 series at that time and I was just beginning to love puppy.

One more question, would the same techniques used for ext3 work for ext4?

Jim
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8034

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 15:07    Post subject:  

Quote:
No, I haven't used reiserfs. Does Grub.097 recognize frugal pup installations? What type of pupsave would you use? I would think that 3fs would work, but how would you enable journaling?

you have lost me.... Shocked

Quote:
One more question, would the same techniques used for ext3 work for ext4?

someone else is trying that.

Quote:
If your hardware supports it, you are really missing out if you aren't trying the latest dpup, upup, and Lighthouse

better the devil you know and everything works really well..I can't be bothered to debug everything again. Besides I'm gradually replacing libs from debian.
Puppy 2.02 is particularly fast and the 1 series flew so speed is another consideration.

mike
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2445
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 15:45    Post subject:  

Hi Mike,
Quote:
better the devil you know and everything works really well..I can't be bothered to debug everything again. Besides I'm gradually replacing libs from debian.
Puppy 2.02 is particularly fast and the 1 series flew so speed is another consideration.

I have the impression that you like challenges, keeps the mind active. In any event, dpup484b4 is very stable, and Lighthouse 4.43 final is greatl. I'm posting from Lighthouse that is using your ideas for a 3fs save file and changes to ext3 in the initrd.gz file that you helped me with. I really like it. Thanks again for helping me get it set up.

Edit: I just installed Lighthouse on an ext4 partition, renamed the 3fs file to 4fs, no change to initrd.gz, however, the 4fs save file is not recognized. The pupsave.3fs, mounted as ext3, runs fine on the ext4 partition. I just may give it a long term test.

Jim
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8034

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 16:22    Post subject:  

Quote:
I have the impression that you like challenges, keeps the mind active

someone said that to me as he tried to hand me a repair job that a dozen other people had had their hands on first...I never did any more work for him. Laughing

mike
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2445
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 17:05    Post subject:  

Quote:
someone said that to me as he tried to hand me a repair job that a dozen other people had had their hands on first...I never did any more work for him. Very Happy


With your avatar which is also the mascot of the No. 1 college football team in the USA, I'm surprised at that. In any event, you do give sound advice that should be adhered to.

Incidently, I've also setup a dpup484b4 frugal installation on an ext4 partition, it has spupsave.3fs and an initrd.gz that mounts it as ext3. It's working well. I'm posting from it now.

On the ext3 problem, Barry noted that he'll consider that next time he compiles the kernel. 2.6.30+ allows the default to be set to "ordered" He also referenced a link that has this information that could be useful now:
Quote:
Filesystems can be forced to use a specific data journalling mode by specifying a mount option on the command line, or in /etc/fstab, or by using the "tune2fs -o journal_data_ordered" or "tune2fs -o journal_data_writeback" to specify a default mount option in the filesystem superblock.
You probably know the code to be used. Should it be "tune2fs -o journal_data_ordered /location/pupsave.2fs/"? Hope that the pupsave.3fs can be renamed 2fs and then back to 3fs after the code is executed?

Jim
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tazoc


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 1157
Location: Lower Columbia Basin WA US

PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2010, 00:44    Post subject:  

Hi Jim,
I've been following the thread about ordered/writeback journals on ext3. You don't need to rename your .3fs to .2fs. Just boot from a liveCD with pfix=ram or another install so that the pupsave you're changing is not mounted. I also did the same to all my ext3 partitions with them unmounted like this:
Code:
tune2fs -o journal_data_ordered /dev/sda6
then I mounted the partition that has my pupsave (still in liveCD mode) and
Code:
tune2fs -o journal_data_ordered /mnt/sda6/lhp443/spupsave.3fs
...rebooted back into the 4.43 frugal and now 'mount' in a terminal and /etc/mtab show "data=ordered" instead of data=writeback. I haven't done any testing with ext4 lately as ext3 works well for me.
-TazOC

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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2445
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2010, 12:21    Post subject:  

Hi TazOC,

Thanks for clarifying the code for me. I use both ext3 and ext4 partitions. I'll use your code on my ext3 partitions and also the converted 3fs save files. However, I doubt that "data=ordered" instead of data=writeback will make much difference on my installation because power failures are infrequent. From what I've read about, the main difference is in save times which probably are not too critical unless you are operating a server.

Incidently, I hope that you noticed my post on your thread about the changes needed to initrd.gz for the 3fs save files to work properly (problem pointed out by Mike). Also, I do have Lighthouse frugally installed on an ext4 partition with a 3fs save file and it's working great.

Jim
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tazoc


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 1157
Location: Lower Columbia Basin WA US

PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2010, 12:59    Post subject:  

Yep, sure did. I'll study the init script changes for the next release. Thank you for the ext4 test results.
Take care,
TazOC

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