Puppy Stardust 001

[zigbert]

Those who mean we can skip pplog, can we also skip Hiawatha web server? Or is this in use by other tools as well?

[BarryK]

Sorry it was Mu's pdf viewer not editor, I don't think gtksourceview is used by anything else either, 2.14x doesn't have it for anything.
Really you could use Seamonkey as the only html viewer or you could add

13kb pet
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... .0.8-1.pet

skipstone 118kb
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... -0.9.7.pet

Like I said vala is nice and all, and the apps the developers have made are nice, but we only have a small amount of apps and it doesn't cover the size of the deps, If we had 10 or so really useful apps then yes sure, but the way it stands vala shouldn't be in puppy primetime. I think its too soon.
ttuuxxx

ps a 649kb Geany version
http://puppylinux.asia/members/T/444/ge ... 8-i486.pet

gtkmoz and skipstone need SeaMonkey installed.

Vala is a compiler, it is not required in the running Puppy.
Some apps compiled by Vala may need libgee. -- but NicoEdit does not require libgee.

So, the only extra thing NicoEdit needs is gtksourceview.

Notecase is optionally compiled with gtksourceview dependency. -- the NoteCase I used in 431 does have that dependency I think.

[BarryK]

Those who mean we can skip pplog, can we also skip Hiawatha web server? Or is this in use by other tools as well?

Hiawatha is used by the CUPS web interface.

[prehistoric]

Uff da - are prehistoric norwegian ????

Merely a visitor. At my age all these new-fangled nation/state things are hard to keep straight.

When I visited friends in Sweden, I wanted to take a side trip to see Oslo. After we got there, I discovered that my world-traveling friend, who spent 7 years in Göteborg (Gothenburg in English) had never been to Norway. I thought this was terrible, particularly as an educational pamphlet on "Norwegian Moonshining" helped finance his college education.

I haven't tried Seamonkey2. Puppy 4.3.1 uses Seamonkey1 and I'm pleased with it.

@DaveS,

BarryK has been trying Seamonkey2, and has found a couple of showstoppers. When those issues are resolved, I expect we will move to it. For a minimum package which gives you browsing, email and HTML editing, Seamonkey is hard to beat. I leave it in even when I install Firefox just to have a way to rough out HTML quickly. The Puppy HTML viewer also uses the same base.

zigbert,

I've just come up with a simple idea which could help many people, particularly if they change browsers. Why not bookmark the Puppy Linux Homepage in /usr/share/doc? That way when people change their browser homepage, as most do, they will still have an easy way to find all the other links. In my case this will be imported into Firefox. I have lost the link in the past when I changed my homepage to the Google Firefox start page.

[Caneri]

Hi All,

Hiawatha is quite small and is a superior web server.

Hugo from Hiawatha is aware of Puppy.

If possible, I vote to keep Hiawatha to help Hugo improve his project. For such a small size it's the least we can do.

Eric

[prehistoric]

These arguments for Hiawatha are good. Even people who don't know they are running an HTML server are likely to use things with web interfaces. I'm less certain about didiwiki and pplog.

Meanwhile, back at debugging stardust, I'm having a frustrating time with the 4.3.1 bug about getting a messed up text console when I shutdown. This prevents me from saving on a initial shutdown. For reasons unknown, the problem is much worse under stardust001 than under stock 4.3.1 on the same machine. One difference is Pwireless2. Another is that there is more going on with the desktop trays, panels and widgets.

My guess right now is that it is connected with the mysterious problems I've had with multiple processes dealing with the desktop. I'm also getting substantial signs of delays when I mouse-over the ptray icons. The processes connected with pwireless2, ptray and pwidgets appear to be the main difference. If these do not terminate cleanly, I suspect X window shutdown leaves the hardware in a peculiar state.

My criticism of conky has always been that it uses too much CPU. Also, generating multiple processes, and leaving the OS to sort everything out, is a recipe for problems. The apparent ease of programming widgets using scripts doesn't keep you out of concurrency trouble. You can get away with all kinds of things when there is only one process. I'll keep experimenting.

Has anyone else loaded up a system with pwidgets and found problems? Is anyone experiencing the video exit trouble, particularly on initial shutdowns?

[Lobster]

Thanks for nvidia info

Hiawatha is needed for printing as mentioned
Don't remove printing [more clues on request]

You can remove Quisp which is a second database
- maybe you did . . .

The advantage of a scripted control panel is devx not required
I think the priority is the control panel
and is indeed more accessible and provides an option
I believe Muppy and New Age Pup had their own control panel
- probably written in PuppyBasic . . .

Do not upgrade to Seamonkey 2
if existing Seamonkey working
Don't fix what works


==========
Detour
==========

Ttuuxxx keep playing nice


This may be a detour but it is an important one
Most distros that 'go community'
fail or succeed not because of the quality
of the work
but due to personality differences
and cat fighting
We are Puppy - we run together
and find ways to do that
- we try to anyway
Find the positive loop that


and now back to the Stardust . . .

[zigbert]

Thank you Barry for dropping by and clear things up

[zigbert]

thanks to Caneri that hosts the Stardust iso. Hiawatha is in...

[zigbert]

Don't fix what works

you're right.

[prehistoric]

...
The advantage of a scripted control panel is devx not required
I think the priority is the control panel
and is indeed more accessible and provides an option
I believe Muppy and New Age Pup had their own control panel
- probably written in PuppyBasic . . .

I have no quarrel with scripting in the control panel, which is a single process unlikely to be launched more than once. (Should check for that.) I'm concerned that the scripts for Pwireless2, Ptray and Pwidgets may not be adequate for handling complicated concurrency issues in real time.

If this is behind the failure to exit and save on shutdown, I want to make it harder to introduce faults which can wreck a whole session. Few people bother to track things down to root causes. A severe system failure hurts the reputation of the entire Puppy Linux distribution even if the cause is trivial.

Do not upgrade to Seamonkey 2
if existing Seamonkey working
Don't fix what works . . .

This thread may be relevant to the discussion.
Added: link corrected after DaveS caught a link left over from browsing BBC news.
Still, that might be relevant to the idea of civil behavior during disagreements.

[DaveS]

Do not upgrade to Seamonkey 2
if existing Seamonkey working
Don't fix what works . . .

This thread may be relevant to the discussion.

Interesting.......... links to a BBC news article re Berlesconi getting a nose job

[prehistoric]

I'm now running stardust001 on a Dell GX-280 (2.8 GHz processor, 1 GB RAM, 40 hard disk.)

On this machine, those problems with shutdown have not occurred. I did see the miniature window for xload stuck in the upper left corner of the screen after desktop startup. (At shutdown on the D610, I also see a window flash up there, but do not have time to enlarge it and read the name.)

For people who may want to install a copy of stardust on a machine already running Puppy 4.3.1, so they can easily compare them, I include the relevant entries in the GRUB menu.lst on this machine. Even though we have two different pup-431.sfs files, they are carefully segregated in different subdirectories, which GRUB passes as arguments at boot.

Code: Select all

# Linux partition section begins
  title Puppy Linux 431 (frugal install on /dev/sda3)
  rootnoverify (hd0,2)
  kernel /puppy431/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=puppy431 nosmp
  initrd /puppy431/initrd.gz
# Linux partition section ends
# Linux partition section begins
  title Stardust (Puppy Linux 431) (frugal install on /dev/sda3)
  rootnoverify (hd0,2)
  kernel /stardust/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=stardust nosmp
  initrd /stardust/initrd.gz
# Linux partition section ends

[mikeslr]

zigbert wrote:

"'davesurrey wrote:
IMHO I wonder how many will ever use Secure ssh telnet, DidiWiki, and PPLOG.'
Do others have opinions about this?
I agree."

Been using computers since the Vic 20, accessing the Web for about 12 years, and using Puppy for about 3. I agree with davesurrey and you. Those are not necessary inclusions.

mikesLr

[prehistoric]

I've loaded up a number of Pwidgets on the Dell GX280 installation described above. I have not been able to reproduce the response problems I had on two Dell laptops on this machine. Next, I'm going to try slower machines in my collection.

As far as the Sun widget is concerned, it now displays times for sunrise and sunset on this machine, even plausible times, but something is wrong. When I change the check box for daylight saving time there is no change. (What should this box do? If MHHP never sets timezone, how does it know when to switch? My guess is that he has built in the rule for his location.) I'm afraid there was also a failure to update when I replaced the approximate latitude and longitude with more precise values.

On this machine, with a 1680x1050 LCD panel, the space taken by the side panel is not a problem. I still prefer the fadebar-right panel background with my current wallpaper.

[zigbert]

Do any one know if it is possible to compile mhwaveedit (172kb) or sweep (254kb) without lidsndfile (153kb) as a dependency? I think mhwaveedit are the only app using libsndfile in Stardust. Or maybe there is another alternative. Yes know about Precord, but it's not there yet....

Some calculations:

ALT1 (633kb)
gtksourceview (208kb)
nicoedit (43kb) - we get a codebrowser
PuppyBrowser (59kb) - tabbed browsing
notecase (333kb) - compiled with gtksourceview


ALT2 (531kb) - without gtksourceview
leafpad (35kb) - tabbed textediting
gtkmoz (13kb)
notecase (483kb) - compiled without gtksourceview

Notecase without gtksourceview could maybe be recompiled for size optimizing. Any takers?


Sigmund

[Patriot]

Hmmm .....

zigbert !
Good looking desktop stardust has ... I grabbed a copy like right after you posted it up ... just got to play with it just now .....

I see that the pwireless2 pop-up is in the startup folder. I think it needs a wifi setup validation routine. That should solve the uninitiated pop-up ...

If I may, I'd like to suggest upgrading your ptray applet to use tray icon setup interface. I think that would make the desktop cleaner (... I kept having the top & left tray popping out with my kludgey mouse). Perhaps use gtrayicon as it is already included in stardust or if you think that's not sufficient, let me know, maybe I can help whip up a specific ptray tray icon ... (maybe you can integrate pwidgets setup into the tray icon too ...)

I'd have to say that it has a nice control panel ... just a bit too big on crampy screen ... maybe you can optimize the layout ?

BTW, I miss geany ..... scripting is kludgy with nicoedit for me ....

Overall, I'd say it's pretty good ... A little bit more polishing and then I could pass this off to newbies and I think they'll have a great time using it .....


prehistoric
From what I know:

1. Can't comment on pwireless2 overall ... Haven't used them yet .....

2. The ptray is actually a setup implementation of jwm tray ... I can assure you that concurrency is not an issue ... the ptray is handled natively by jwm with no extra instances running in the background ... (the pop-up tray interface does seem to get in my way though ... maybe the timer value needs some investigation ...)

3. pwidgets ..... well, this is something like a Harley bike ... either you hate them or love them .... for me, I love Harley bikes until they start giving me a headache .....

4. Conky should be viewed as a generic utility to make life easier ... The conky devs tries hard to optimize conky resource usage and I tend to agree that they've done it pretty well .... I've experimented running about 6-8 instances of conky on a p3-600 (many moons ago when I had reservations about pwidgets during the p4.2rc) and found overall impact on system responsiveness negligible ... of course, the scripts i used were optimized ...

Yes, there are other utils that does the same but I tend to believe conky was chosen for its simplicity ... newbies can jump straight into making nice looking conky scripts in just a few hours ... but this is where it could get mushy ... some haven't thought about overall impact and could result in a resource hogging script ...


Rgds

[Patriot]

Hmmm .....

Do any one know if it is possible to compile mhwaveedit (172kb) .....

Is that before upx of after? or is this the pet size? ..... sure, can compile it without sdl, libsndfile and oss to make it smaller ...


Rgds

[davids45]

G'day "Ziggy" (obviously a David Bowie fan),

I have quickly tried Stardust and found it very good.
A few notes or small issues:

nico-edit - could it give some sign of a successful save like other text editors - such as a change in intensity of the Save icon?

network - how do I set up static IP addresses for my network cards (eth0 and wlan0)? While trying to set these via the standard wizard, I was getting messages about the cards being given dhcp addresses in a pink box at the top of the display. If I remove the pwireless file from Startup directory would I avoid these unwanted auto addresses?

Having to boot with acpi=off, I needed to add "power_off=1" to line 249 of rc.sysint to get a full shut-down.

pwidgets - having a dual core desktop, is there some way the cpu widget could detect two cores and display both usages? I modify the cpu_bar config to add the second cpu bar, so I'm used to doing this with each new Pup. But it would be better for new users if it was automatic.

My extra partition/drive icons on first booting formed a pile at bottom-right of the screen (did not display in two rows). BK is working on fixing this (see his blog) for systems with lots of drives, partitions and usb add-ons. This would be a useful patch for later Startdusts.

I too like the Control Panel feature.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

David S.

[MinHundHettePerro]

As far as the Sun widget is concerned, it now displays times for sunrise and sunset on this machine, even plausible times, but something is wrong. Good ! When I change the check box for daylight saving time there is no change. Sorry, don't remember exactly, haven't used it, myself, for half a year, or so . My best guess (for now) would be that DST reflects the present (in accordance with the sloppy (sic!) MHHP practice of not setting his time-zone ) - you'd, most probably(?) would have to set it according to your local state of Sun-/Bureaucratic-time. (What should this box do? If MHHP never sets timezone, how does it know when to switch? MHHP just likes to set his own computer clock to whatever is appropriate at the time being (two reasons; 1> often use old computers, with dying CMOS batteries, 2> my other favourite OS, of which one is not to speak here, scr**s file-times up if MHHP sets time-zone and automatic changing of DST.). My guess is that he has built in the rule for his location. No, not at all.) I'm afraid there was also a failure to update when I replaced the approximate latitude and longitude with more precise values. Don't remember the exact updating frequency right now, I'm afraid.

On a more general pwidgets/Sun-note: at the moment, the disk where I have the pwidget/Sun-files is not mounted (physically, that is) so my answers above are merely from the back of my head.
There was a concern not to poll the website, providing the sun-rise/-set times, to often (to avoid getting one's IP banned), but IIRC the pwidget/Sun-script was intended to update within a minute, or so, from changing the settings.

Perhaps we shouldn't clutter this thread with issues on pwidget/Sun, rather take it to the pwidgets thread instead, leaving this thread for discussing the nice slim-blingy Puppy Stardust initiative of Zigbert's?

Yes, there are other utils that does the same but I tend to believe conky was chosen for its simplicity ... newbies can jump straight into making nice looking conky scripts in just a few hours ... but this is where it could get mushy ... some haven't thought about overall impact and could result in a resource hogging script ...

Umm, yes, newbies on Harleys ...

I must admit that I haven't checked out Puppy Stardust 001 yet. I will download and check it out, in a few days, though.

59°19'18"N is far north of the tropic of cancer /
MHHP