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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development » 5.x
Dpup Synaptic Testing
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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1305
Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2009, 09:01    Post_subject:  

The only major problem I still have is getting the base installation database correct, so all the correct files are registered with apt. As flugwelpe has shown if you discover a library that is incorrectly assigned as installed, you just run apt-get --reinstall install xxxx.

Cheers
Guy

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2009, 16:56    Post_subject:  

I converted the pet to sfs.
Got the synaptic package manager in the menu.
Lost however 20MB of save space.

Decided to do a test and wanted to install samba server.
Things went wrong as I got error messages.
But I lost some more 50MB of save space.

Tried to uninstall what I had installed, but it wasn't easy to see what had be installed exactly. Uninstalled everything with samba in the name.
Things did uninstall and nothing from samba is installed, but I still have some 20MB save space lost somewhere.

Don't know how to find out for what.

Conclusion, it's not really for debutantes.

Like PPM it's not for people who try to save space in the space file in a frugal environment.
With pet packages there is at least a possibility to convert them to sfs.
Here I don't see in what way it can be done.

Hope this doesn't sound too negative.

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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1305
Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2009, 20:54    Post_subject:  

Béèm

APT/Synaptic was never going to be a happy match with a pupsave type environment. It creates large database entries and keeps a copy of every file you download/install, even if you later uninstall it. You can remove some of the bloat by going to /var/cache/apt and deleting the deb files from there, but it sort of defeats the purpose behind APT, ie re-installs and filesystem fixes.

I said from the outset that I thought that it would really only be viable on a full HDD install, more and more testers are discovering for themselves why I said that...(unless you can put up with large and fast growing pupsave files)

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tubeguy


Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1326
Location: Park Ridge IL USA

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2009, 22:08    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I said from the outset that I thought that it would really only be viable on a full HDD install, more and more testers are discovering for themselves why I said that...(unless you can put up with large and fast growing pupsave files)
I think we all realize that, having apt-synaptic at all is a big addition to Puppy in general. Being able to boot 4.3.1 from anywhere is great, but Puppy is only 100meg from a purist point of view. Honestly I haven't spent much time with 4.3.1 since dpup beta4, I suppose I got used to Puppy and wanted more from it and dpup was it. Because of dpup I actually spend more time with Puppy on my home "production" box than I do with Windows now. (Work is a different story...) I have a 10gig pupsave on that machine, only because I can't see needing any more.

TL:DR Anyone who wants apt on Puppy shouldn't mind the extra bulk.

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shankargopal

Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 03:35    Post_subject:  

Just to report a success... decided to be ambitious, added in the packages.enlightenment.org lenny repository and used apt-get to install e17. Dependencies identified correctly excepting libXp6 which I installed using --reinstall. And, what do you know - voila - it works! Smile

Yes, I know it's better to build E17 on the system, but the sources have defeated me five times in the last three weeks (including the recent snapshots). Very frustrating, will upload a dotpet whenever I manage to do it. But in the meantime - what's better than a one line command to install something that otherwise takes at least three hours of compiling?
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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1305
Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 06:11    Post_subject:  

Well done shankargopal, that is how close we are to getting a full working APT, just base install database, so anyone else having issues, please remember the apt-get --reinstall option.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7835
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 06:24    Post_subject:  

gposil wrote:
[snip]
I said from the outset that I thought that it would really only be viable on a full HDD install ....[snip]


Er, that explains my absence from this testing/discussion...

Hopefully after Santa has been I might be getting a whiz bang multi-core whopper with a huge hd so I can have 30 odd partitions,.. Cool

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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 06:31    Post_subject:  

Mick, can you get Santa to drop one off for me on his way to your place... Smile
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shankargopal

Joined: 03 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 06:41    Post_subject:  

Ask him to stop by Delhi on the way too...

But aside from that, all my testing has been on a frugal install with a 512MB dpupsave and atm running on a Eee 701SD. Despite gposil's pointed cautions, have so far not had any trouble that I could trace to a frugal install. Maybe it's fine?

Size-wise yes, apt/synaptic is huge (so far taking up more than 300 MB), but that's the price one pays for that kind of power, and frankly it's not that high a price. While I'm on an 8GB pen drive, I think a 2GB pen drive would easily house a comfortable dpup install with apt. Yes, that's more than the 256 MB that would be enough without it, but you couldn't have much fun then anyway.

Incidentally, only one small hurdle - if you have only 512 MB RAM, like me, that may not be a big enough tmpfs to install the apt dotpet. In taht case just create a swap partition and reboot.
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shankargopal

Joined: 03 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 07:16    Post_subject:  

shankargopal wrote:
Despite gposil's pointed cautions, have so far not had any trouble that I could trace to a frugal install. Maybe it's fine?


Possibly, I spoke too soon. Apt suddenly stopped updating. Typing apt-get update gets just "Reading package lists... done". Looked, found that /var/apt is empty. /etc/apt includes only the two directories apt.conf.d and sources.list.d, which in turn are empty.

Any idea what might have happened? And should I just reinstall the apt dotpet, or wipe the dpupsave and start again?

Edit: should mention that this happened after a reboot on a different machine. There also was an unusual shutdown earlier where dpup refused to shut down; it reached the point of saying "unmounting swap partition" and the word "terminated" appeared, but had to do a hard power off to get it to switch off (as "terminated" had come up, assumed the saving was done). Not sure if this problem appeared after that shutdown or after the next one, as I did not use apt in between.
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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 07:35    Post_subject:  

I knew this would eventually turn up, frugal installs still have a problem with Dpup's non Puppy directory structure(it's Debian not Puppy)...I have tested APT hundreds of times on a Live CD pupsave environment, and it just doesn't work and I thought some of the probs would carry over to frugal installs....now I can fix it, I know where the problems arise, but it would take Dpup too far away from its mainstream....meaning that a Dpup frugal install would have minimum memory and space requirements that are not inline with Barry's wishes, and that ain't going to happen....
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shankargopal

Joined: 03 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 07:39    Post_subject:  

Oh damn, I'm sorry to hear that, and can understand re the restrictions. Can you let me know what the problem is and the kind of fixes that would be needed, and I can see if maybe I can try to make a kludge / fix for it for my system (and others who may be interested)? Though both my skills and time are probably far, far too limited for the task...
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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 08:48    Post_subject:  

Don't worry shankargopal, I will put the fix out as a pet on the repo, but it will not be included as standard Dpup, just an addon.

Cheers
Guy

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shankargopal

Joined: 03 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 08:58    Post_subject:  

Great, thanks a lot, gposil. In the meantime as a kludge I was considering something rather inelegant. Since the main advantages of apt over PPM that I can see are 1) better dependency resolution and 2) easy access to new repositories, I can keep an empty dpupsave into which I would, when necessary, install apt, run it in "--download-only" mode, and copy over the debs for installation with PPM to my main system. Possibly any frugal installers desperate for apt could do the same when they really need it... (I would just do a full install but I can't, as I need my Puppy to be flash drive based and full installs don't work on USB devices).
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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 12 Dec 2009, 09:54    Post_subject:  

Not just a good kludge...a good idea and one which others should take note of for non full installers.
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