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 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
Create an image of HD using (dd), resize NTFS with qparted
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 02:42    Post subject:  

Thank you for trying to clear this up Flash.
I know there are quite a few commercial programs that can easily do this. The problem is I'm about to do this on a wider scale and don't really want to buy any software. Came across dd and thought this would easily do the job.

Does anyone use anything else (F/OSS) for this same purpose?
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11072
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 03:01    Post subject:  

Surely you can find one or two sacrificial computers to try it out on, to see if it will do what you want. Smile
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 03:05    Post subject:  

I'd rather not.
But if no one comes up with a confirmation/another solution I'll just have to try. Hopefully I'm not the first one that wants to do this.
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 17:19    Post subject:  

Well I tried it. It seemed to be a complete success, but when I attempted to boot from the new HDD I recived the dreaded "NTLDR is missing".
I then disconnected the drive and booted with the old one. Not only do I get the above error but it displays that only 2.8GB is free, same as the old drive and the partition of this one was 5GB larger. Which it totally ignores.

In short dd doesn't seem to be what I'm after at all. Please provide me with an alternative.
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb 2006, 00:52    Post subject:  

dd can duplicate a partition, byte for byte
the new partition will be an exact duplicate of the old partition ... same size, same everything

if you want to move the files from a smaller partition to a larger partition, you have to do it on a file-by-file basis, from within the file system ... if it is an NTFS system, then the file system was invented by Microsoft ... only they and partner businesses that pay them for the rights know how the NTFS system works ... there has been some limited reverse-engineering that has been done, to try and figure out exactly how it works, but it's not easy to do ... see here

so to do what you want to do requires using programs that have been written by people who have paid Microsoft to tell them how NTFS works ... in other words, there are probably no open-source programs that can do what you want to do

Ghost can do this ... probably Partition-Magic ... i think http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/ has a good reputuation
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb 2006, 00:57    Post subject:  

you can resize an NTFS partition, though
parted can do this, i think
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb 2006, 02:55    Post subject:  

I know I could use a number of commercial applications for this, I've done so in the past. But I don't want to this time around. I'm quite sure they're not needed.

Especially if one looks at http://www.partimage.org/, just wish I could use this in Puppy...or something else.
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb 2006, 04:05    Post subject:  

there is a parted package on my dotpups page (untested by me)

in any case, as far as i know, the static partimage binary works in Puppy
http://www.partimage.org/download.en.html

i haven't made it into a dotpup package because it's a little too big (over 1 meg) to upload to the forum

i think that to do what you want it to do, a program requires knowledge of how the NTFS file system works ... and Microsoft will not tell anyone the exact details without being paid and agreeing to a license that forbids the source from being published (which is by definition, not open-source)
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb 2006, 07:08    Post subject:  

Thank you GuestToo. I'll give SystemRescueCd a try to see if Partimage does what I want it to and report back my findings.
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb 2006, 19:26    Post subject:  

SystemRescueCd/Partimage was not up to the job.

I once again tried dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/sda1 bs=32256 on a different PC and once it completed I was able to boot in the Windows OS without any problems (no missing NTLDR or anything).
Naturally the partition showing up was the same size as the one from the old HDD so I defraged the drive, booted up Knoppix ran qtparted (which unlike parted can resize NTFS) and resized the partition to the size I wanted. Basically making it show how it should have in the first place.

Everything works great! I'll try it on other machines now.
BTW I searched and searched but didn't find qtparted for Puppy are there any plans for it?
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed 08 Feb 2006, 16:09    Post subject:  

I tested this again today using a different PC.
Everything went smoothly but was unable to boot into Windows. Used a boot disk (on another PC since my main box lacks a FDD), fixed the MBR and was able to boot it up afterwards (on both PCs). Qparted did its thing again and I'm writting this from the clone.

Just wanted to post my findings, awesome stuff.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11072
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 08 Feb 2006, 18:49    Post subject:  

How did you get qparted to work in Knoppix? I got frustrated and disgusted with having to get past the requirement for a "locked" password or use su or some such on my own damn computer. Evil or Very Mad
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Wed 08 Feb 2006, 18:53    Post subject:  

In knoppix you can run
sudo program
to start a program as root.

I often run
sudo konqueror
Like this konqui runs as root, and I can click on programs in /usr/bin to run them as root.
Mark
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11072
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 08 Feb 2006, 19:07    Post subject:  

Thanks, Mark. Smile

What's the point of having to use "sudo" to run a program in Knoppix? Is it just a frustrating (for a beginner) but unavoidable side effect of not running as root? It can't be intended to prevent you from screwing up your own computer.
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CypherBit

Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu 09 Feb 2006, 11:18    Post subject:  

Well it's supposed to be a security measure. Ubuntu and other distros are quite fond of it.

But I actually didn't run it as sudo. Don't know if it's related to the version of Knoppix I'm using (4.0.2) or something else.
I just know that qparted (ntfsresize) did a great, great job.

I'm currently DDing (using Puppy) another PC and will probably have to resort to Knoppix once again.
I think qparted does all that cfdisk can do and more, hopefully I'm not the only one that would like this to be added. Don't really know how much more space it would consume.
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