dpup-482beta testing
Hi, ttuuxx, cher compatriote.
Long time no see! The following is intended as a joke... I can't resist, although it might cost me...
Between you and me, ttuuxx, if you're so anti-bling, someone under Ubuntu influence has written... INX. http://inx.maincontent.net/
Try it! Maybe emulate it? Really no bling at all!
But seriously, in your post above, I understand that you might feel a responsibility to affirm a sort of "Puppy party line" as to "non-blingness". The reality is that Puppyists will adapt yours or Barry's or any other Puppy to suit their needs. To me, there are three main needs on a desktop:
1* easy access to programs
2* quick monitoring of computer functions
3* backdrops potentially reflecting your mood or a quest for beauty.
In my opinion, a good distro should offer a good balance between the three elements. I will venture to say that factory issue Puppies often lack in no 2.
Each user should be able to decide the balance between those three (s)he's comfortable with. Some will go spartan and opt for musca or aewm as a wm, others prefer their desktop to be crowded (or blingy) as in some renditions of KDE or gnome or what have you. Some users prioritize monitoring over access to programs, and that's fine too. Some like it hot, some like it cold.
In my opinion, the job of a top-level Puppy programmer (I'm speaking in general terms, this is not at all personal) is not to impose his choices, but on the contrary to provide many choices for fellow users. Suggest is the key word here.
Frankly, it does not matter how the programming guru dresses up his own desktop for his own private use. In his private computer life, he may like blingy or minimalistic. That's his business. To impose it on other users, however? No. To suggest, yes. As the author or co-author of a distribution, he should remain selfless and provide as many choices as feasible to the user.
What the user wants from the programming guru is choice, and furthermore ease of choice: to be blingy or spartan, if the user wants to be, it should not matter to the "guru".
Choices mean efficiency. If "Jo" is efficient blingy, so be it. If "Gert" is efficient with a minimalist desktop, so be it. (Fictitious names, of course.) The most knowledgeable guys in the Puppy distribution chain should be perceptive and psychologists enough to recognize that trait of human nature and provide choices.
A testimony to that freedom is the unstoppable flux of puplets that the more knowledgeable puppy-ists turn out every year.
I will be frank with you: I felt that Puppy 4.2 and Puppy 4.2.1 had the above balance right. To me, it wasn't blingy at all. It provided ease of access, monitoring at a glance and a choice of nice backdrops. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers the wrong way, but that's how I felt about it.
As well, if the developers of dpup think wbar should be on the desktop, why not? If you personally wouldn't like wbar to be included in the final Puppy 5 version, at least have the elegant gesture of offering a choice for it, because, as you can see, some people like it. Maybe I don't particularly like it, maybe you don't, but that is none of our business. Some people like it.
Only my two cents, and with all due respect for your past and present contributions, of course. Sorry if the above sounds like hitting on a nail, but I felt it needed to be said.
All the best.
Long time no see! The following is intended as a joke... I can't resist, although it might cost me...
Between you and me, ttuuxx, if you're so anti-bling, someone under Ubuntu influence has written... INX. http://inx.maincontent.net/
Try it! Maybe emulate it? Really no bling at all!
But seriously, in your post above, I understand that you might feel a responsibility to affirm a sort of "Puppy party line" as to "non-blingness". The reality is that Puppyists will adapt yours or Barry's or any other Puppy to suit their needs. To me, there are three main needs on a desktop:
1* easy access to programs
2* quick monitoring of computer functions
3* backdrops potentially reflecting your mood or a quest for beauty.
In my opinion, a good distro should offer a good balance between the three elements. I will venture to say that factory issue Puppies often lack in no 2.
Each user should be able to decide the balance between those three (s)he's comfortable with. Some will go spartan and opt for musca or aewm as a wm, others prefer their desktop to be crowded (or blingy) as in some renditions of KDE or gnome or what have you. Some users prioritize monitoring over access to programs, and that's fine too. Some like it hot, some like it cold.
In my opinion, the job of a top-level Puppy programmer (I'm speaking in general terms, this is not at all personal) is not to impose his choices, but on the contrary to provide many choices for fellow users. Suggest is the key word here.
Frankly, it does not matter how the programming guru dresses up his own desktop for his own private use. In his private computer life, he may like blingy or minimalistic. That's his business. To impose it on other users, however? No. To suggest, yes. As the author or co-author of a distribution, he should remain selfless and provide as many choices as feasible to the user.
What the user wants from the programming guru is choice, and furthermore ease of choice: to be blingy or spartan, if the user wants to be, it should not matter to the "guru".
Choices mean efficiency. If "Jo" is efficient blingy, so be it. If "Gert" is efficient with a minimalist desktop, so be it. (Fictitious names, of course.) The most knowledgeable guys in the Puppy distribution chain should be perceptive and psychologists enough to recognize that trait of human nature and provide choices.
A testimony to that freedom is the unstoppable flux of puplets that the more knowledgeable puppy-ists turn out every year.
I will be frank with you: I felt that Puppy 4.2 and Puppy 4.2.1 had the above balance right. To me, it wasn't blingy at all. It provided ease of access, monitoring at a glance and a choice of nice backdrops. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers the wrong way, but that's how I felt about it.
As well, if the developers of dpup think wbar should be on the desktop, why not? If you personally wouldn't like wbar to be included in the final Puppy 5 version, at least have the elegant gesture of offering a choice for it, because, as you can see, some people like it. Maybe I don't particularly like it, maybe you don't, but that is none of our business. Some people like it.
Only my two cents, and with all due respect for your past and present contributions, of course. Sorry if the above sounds like hitting on a nail, but I felt it needed to be said.
All the best.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
My comments are, by the way, sometimes passionate, but I don't mean them negatively. So I hope no one will take any offense if I occasionally argue a point.
I think this is a great branch of the Puppy tree so far, very exciting, and I'm very happy to be able to use it in whatever form it takes. I know I have the ability to modify it to my own taste, and so some of these viewpoints I'm expressing are more for the sake of presenting what I imagine I would think if I were new to this, rather than as an everyday user. Of course we all imagine that in different ways. Anyway, thanks for allowing various viewpoints.
I really like dpup.
I think this is a great branch of the Puppy tree so far, very exciting, and I'm very happy to be able to use it in whatever form it takes. I know I have the ability to modify it to my own taste, and so some of these viewpoints I'm expressing are more for the sake of presenting what I imagine I would think if I were new to this, rather than as an everyday user. Of course we all imagine that in different ways. Anyway, thanks for allowing various viewpoints.
I really like dpup.
Hi guys and gals
As an up and coming Puppy developer I have learnt that you must cop criticism on the chin and take the positive out of it, no matter how negative. I suppose that can be true of most things in life.
Criticism is usually what a dev hears. If he/she hears nothing then it is probably a good app! Without criticism, how can a dev improve his/her apps? We need to be told of the tiniest bugs. Even if you never post on the forum, I have started making a habit of putting my gmail address inside the scripts so people can email me their thoughts, along with a link to the GPL licence, and a disclaimer.
I must agree with you vtpup, dpup is becoming one nice Puppy . I spend about 60% of my time in it, the other 40% is split between 4.3 and Slaxer_Pup and occasionally 4.2.1.
Cheers
As an up and coming Puppy developer I have learnt that you must cop criticism on the chin and take the positive out of it, no matter how negative. I suppose that can be true of most things in life.
Criticism is usually what a dev hears. If he/she hears nothing then it is probably a good app! Without criticism, how can a dev improve his/her apps? We need to be told of the tiniest bugs. Even if you never post on the forum, I have started making a habit of putting my gmail address inside the scripts so people can email me their thoughts, along with a link to the GPL licence, and a disclaimer.
I must agree with you vtpup, dpup is becoming one nice Puppy . I spend about 60% of my time in it, the other 40% is split between 4.3 and Slaxer_Pup and occasionally 4.2.1.
Cheers
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- gposil
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I have learnt over too many years to remember(as a commercial software developer) to regard all comments, whether they be criticism or praise as valid input in the creative process...
It is impossible to be everything to everyone, but we can offer choice, and I actually agree that getting too blingy is a mistake, but the option will be there if you want it...it's only a few lines of code to give us options...Dpup is now as blingy as it will get as long as I am still developing it...All we have to do is make sure that the bling is easily installable for those that want it...After all is said and done, Puppy has always been about versatility and choice, and I hope that never changes.
Cheers
Guy
It is impossible to be everything to everyone, but we can offer choice, and I actually agree that getting too blingy is a mistake, but the option will be there if you want it...it's only a few lines of code to give us options...Dpup is now as blingy as it will get as long as I am still developing it...All we have to do is make sure that the bling is easily installable for those that want it...After all is said and done, Puppy has always been about versatility and choice, and I hope that never changes.
Cheers
Guy
[img]http://gposil.netne.net/images/tlp80.gif[/img] [url=http://www.dpup.org][b]Dpup Home[/b][/url]
Wbar testers
I need to know if after you install wbar-setup-alpha-0.0.2.pet that you have a directory /root/mydocuments/wbar-backup containing the files wstart and .wbar (that's *dot*wbar, not fly poo on your screen, hidden file). There is a post install script that produces that folder, I need to know if it is working because I had a report that it doesn't, but it works for me.
Cheers
I need to know if after you install wbar-setup-alpha-0.0.2.pet that you have a directory /root/mydocuments/wbar-backup containing the files wstart and .wbar (that's *dot*wbar, not fly poo on your screen, hidden file). There is a post install script that produces that folder, I need to know if it is working because I had a report that it doesn't, but it works for me.
Cheers
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- gposil
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Barry's intention was that Puppy 5.0 would be 4 releases, Upup, Dpup Tpup and PPup...I don't think that has changed.musher0 wrote:Will dpup be integrated in Puppy 5 final or will it remain a separate distro ?
[img]http://gposil.netne.net/images/tlp80.gif[/img] [url=http://www.dpup.org][b]Dpup Home[/b][/url]
Thanks Jim.. time to track that fly .. er bug..Jim1911 wrote:Hi 01micko,
No folders or files, hidden or otherwise, are added to my /root/mydocuments directory.
Jim
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- MinHundHettePerro
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+1Jim1911 wrote:Hi 01micko,
No folders or files, hidden or otherwise, are added to my /root/mydocuments directory.
Jim
/MHHP
[color=green]Celeron 2.8 GHz, 1 GB, i82845, many ptns, modes 12, 13
Dual Xeon 3.2 GHz, 1 GB, nvidia quadro nvs 285[/color]
Slackos & 214X, ... and Q6xx
[color=darkred]Nämen, vaf....[/color] [color=green]ln -s /dev/null MHHP[/color]
Dual Xeon 3.2 GHz, 1 GB, nvidia quadro nvs 285[/color]
Slackos & 214X, ... and Q6xx
[color=darkred]Nämen, vaf....[/color] [color=green]ln -s /dev/null MHHP[/color]
I see. Thanks for the info. BFN.gposil wrote:Barry's intention was that Puppy 5.0 would be 4 releases, Upup, Dpup Tpup and PPup...I don't think that has changed.musher0 wrote:Will dpup be integrated in Puppy 5 final or will it remain a separate distro ?
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
To gposil and vtpup.
Please set me straight:
Does / will ttuuxx have a vetting capacity over dpup? (That's the impression his post about wbar left me with.) Will anyone be vetting / editing the final dpup? Or are you two vetting dpup along the way? Or "vetting" is not the Puppy way of doing things?
Sincerely,
Please set me straight:
Does / will ttuuxx have a vetting capacity over dpup? (That's the impression his post about wbar left me with.) Will anyone be vetting / editing the final dpup? Or are you two vetting dpup along the way? Or "vetting" is not the Puppy way of doing things?
Sincerely,
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
Oh dear! What a dill! Um, in the wbar-setup-alpha-0.0.2.pet "pinstall" should have been "pinstall.sh". Sorry. Please delete "/pinstall". I suppose this is why we have alphas..
New pet up soon with a couple more bugfixes.
New pet up soon with a couple more bugfixes.
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access
Ok then Wbar testers... here is a new pet.
Changes
Cheer
Have fun
Edit... New improved version http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 243#357243
Changes
- -new pinstall.sh script [ ]
-changed the opacity settings such that they remember their values
-added config file such that there are values already there when you open the geometry gui
Cheer
Have fun
Edit... New improved version http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 243#357243
Last edited by 01micko on Sun 01 Nov 2009, 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
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- gposil
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musher0 asked:
I completely understand where ttuuxxx is coming from...he is trying to get Dpup into his XO project and will need some specifics covered...he and I can handle that. I listen to everyone, but ultimately, unless someone else wants to have the Dpup482 root filesystem development structure on their own machine, it's a collaboration with me overseeing it...
I hope that clarifies it for you musher0
Cheers
Guy
Dpup482 is a "dictatorship" albeit benevolent, the only "vetting" is done by me...with help and suggestions from you all...Please set me straight:
Does / will ttuuxx have a vetting capacity over dpup? (That's the impression his post about wbar left me with.) Will anyone be vetting / editing the final dpup? Or are you two vetting dpup along the way? Or "vetting" is not the Puppy way of doing things?
I completely understand where ttuuxxx is coming from...he is trying to get Dpup into his XO project and will need some specifics covered...he and I can handle that. I listen to everyone, but ultimately, unless someone else wants to have the Dpup482 root filesystem development structure on their own machine, it's a collaboration with me overseeing it...
I hope that clarifies it for you musher0
Cheers
Guy
[img]http://gposil.netne.net/images/tlp80.gif[/img] [url=http://www.dpup.org][b]Dpup Home[/b][/url]
- ttuuxxx
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I agree with Gposil 100% This version of Dpup is 100% his, but I would go as far as to say, When I get this devx issue sorted I'll be contributing just as much as Gposil, I'm pretty fullon when it comes to Linux, but where it goes and what gposil chooses is upto only him. My biggest issue with dpup is the size and devx. Both need some refining. Also as a team Gposil and Myself have proven that we both have the same sort idea's and vision to where Dpup should head. So I have a feeling it will work out just fine. Kind of like 4.2, Whodo was king and I did a lot of the work.
ttuuxxx
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)
- gposil
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ttuuxxx, I have discovered that dpup version of the mv command segfaults in new2dir, if we replace it with the Puppy version...all is well. The other thing I discovered in the glib-2.22.2 documentation is that and I quote...."libiconv is needed to build Glib on Debian systems".....interesting, any way I compiled the latest glib with no probs and with the mv change new2dir worked as well...
On the size issue of Dpup..beta5 will the last version before we start doing major fat trimming(stated before in thread). Ideally, I would like the final DPup to be somewhere in the region of 105-110Mb...lets see what we can do at that stage...we are not going to hurry this...
One other point i'll make is that, I don't use new2dir in my dev working, I create all my packages using the DESTDIR switch in make install...eg "make install --DESTDIR=/tmp/glib-2.22.2" and then build ppackages from there...just the way I do things..
On the size issue of Dpup..beta5 will the last version before we start doing major fat trimming(stated before in thread). Ideally, I would like the final DPup to be somewhere in the region of 105-110Mb...lets see what we can do at that stage...we are not going to hurry this...
One other point i'll make is that, I don't use new2dir in my dev working, I create all my packages using the DESTDIR switch in make install...eg "make install --DESTDIR=/tmp/glib-2.22.2" and then build ppackages from there...just the way I do things..
[img]http://gposil.netne.net/images/tlp80.gif[/img] [url=http://www.dpup.org][b]Dpup Home[/b][/url]
- gposil
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Is this what we want for First Start Wizard. Let me know if we want any more options...
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