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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development » 5.x
dpup-482beta testing
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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1158
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 11:05    Post_subject:  

Yes Ttuuxxx I can confirm that 01Micko's new control for wbar -- a few posts above will remove it easily. It's a nice set of controls.

However, until you mentioned it, I was unaware that the desktop icons were removed, since I upgraded beta 4 from beta 3 -- and the icons were probably carried over from my default personal savefile settings.

I agree with Ttuuxxx and would personally prefer it if the desktop icons were retained in preference to wbar as the default. With regard to wbar, I tend to remove all animation as a matter of habit from the old days when I didn't have much ram or such a powerful graphics card or processor as I do now. That always seemed to speed up operation, and animation gets old anyway.

As a compromise with those who would like the aesthetic option of wbar, can I suggest that there be a simple switch in the control panel that toggles either the normal shipped desktop icons, or those same icons in wbar?

My hope is that the shipped version would have Icons beginners need to get started right out on on the desktop as the default.

But if it is decided to make wbar the default, anyway, then at least give it full opacity as shipped. At present in the new script, it isn't.

Functionally, 01Micko, you've done great work with the wbar script, but I've decided not to use wbar after all, because of the difficulty of adding and removing icons. With desktop icons, I can move one by clicking on it, or remove it by right clicking on it, and I can add a new one by dragging it to the desktop. I do this very frequently. I can change the order and position of icons very quickly and intuitively.

To do the same and re-order or change the wbar icons seems to be a much more time consuming process, even with your very nice work. It requires filling text entry fields. That's a step back from the purpose of a GUI. I'm not clear how icons can be removed or changed in position at all -- perhaps there is a way, and I'm too dense to see it -- if so apologies.

I'm afraid that unless there is a drag-to-move, drag-and-drop, and right click-to-remove functionality for its icons, wbar seems to me to be just an aesthetic gadget, that makes what I do harder.
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2457
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 11:35    Post_subject:  

Many of us prefer the uncluttered desktop. It's much easier to add icons than it is to get rid of unwanted icons.

That's what I love about puppy derivatives, so many ways to customize it just to suit individual preferences.

Thanks puppy team,
Jim
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gposil


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1305
Location: Stanthorpe (The Granite Belt), QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 11:39    Post_subject:  

Here's a great compromise...we'll put the option in First Start Wizard, for either Icon Free Desktop with Wbar, or No Wbar with Original Icons...that'll be easy and hopefully will please everyone.

Oh BTW ...I've heard that the Dpup version of Abiword 2.8 works out of the box in 4.3.1 so that was easy....You'll find the beta5 upgrade pets here...http://dpup.org/test/dpup482beta4-2.6.30.5/upgrades/

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4259
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 11:47    Post_subject:  

Hello, all.

I was successful in adapting and loading ecomoney's Oxygen Office 3.0.1 sfs in dpup 482. If anybody's interested, I have written an account of it here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40383&sort=lastpost&start=30

Enjoy! BFN.

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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1158
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 13:46    Post_subject:  

Jim1911 wrote:
Many of us prefer the uncluttered desktop. It's much easier to add icons than it is to get rid of unwanted icons. Jim


Right click>remove item is difficult?
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sinc


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 523
Location: Tampa, FL USA

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 13:55    Post_subject:  

gposil, that seems like an awesome idea, along with a switch for numlock setting Wink .

vtpup, i guess its not intuitive for noobs (as you mentioned) but its pretty easy to move stuff around on wbar also. go to /root/.wbar

and cut and paste them in any order you want or just remove them. then restart X and you are set.

to all, I have patriots jwm 2.0.1 enhancements http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39162 running with the menu transparency and it is running very nicely. it requires me to reboot completely and pick his added jwm theme "cool-VG" but it looks really nice.
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sinc


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 523
Location: Tampa, FL USA

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 14:08    Post_subject:  

gposil wrote:
I am going to run parcellite in beta5...


does that mean the paste function will then work? I am really not a programmer so it doesn't bother me too much but the feature works in 2.14X. I don't know if that is b/c parcellite it running from bootup or there is some other configuration. You mentioned the developers at geany are trying to fix the issue but its already working in ttuuxxx's pup. (i'm just interested in finding out why as a curious person, thats all)
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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1158
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 14:11    Post_subject:  

sinc wrote:
gposil, that seems like an awesome idea, along with a switch for numlock setting Wink .

vtpup, i guess its not intuitive for noobs (as you mentioned) but its pretty easy to move stuff around on wbar also. go to /root/.wbar

and cut and paste them in any order you want or just remove them. then restart X and you are set.


Agreed gposil, as long as it's a choice, why not.

Technically though sinc, this is a GUI, right? We're decades down the road from the innovations of Smalltalk, and yet we're supposed to recognize and find a hidden file, open it in a text editor, and shift line entries around in order to move or delete an icon on the desktop - granted, a disappeaing animated magnifying icon - but an icon on the desktop, nevertheless?

I can understand that as an aesthetic option for those who prefer to work at a so called "uncluttered" desktop, and all the negative connotations "clutter" brings up, but it's not just "noobs" who find that undesirable. Uhhh, I agree with Ttuuxxx.
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sinc


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 523
Location: Tampa, FL USA

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 15:25    Post_subject:  

I agree its not simple (but its not THAT hard Smile ). I suppose Gposil has offered up the solution though.

Smalltalk: http://www.bitwisemag.com/copy/programming/milestones/pm_smalltalk.html. Hmm? Interesting history.
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2457
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 15:45    Post_subject:  

Hi gposil,

Not much of a problem, however during a remaster of 482, the script picks up the version as 476 instead of 482. Also Pwidgits identifies it as 476, so something was overlooked in the code for 482.

Enjoying beta4 and can hardly wait for beta5 and synaptic.

Thanks,
Jim
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7836
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 17:20    Post_subject:  

vtpup wrote:
...
To do the same and re-order or change the wbar icons seems to be a much more time consuming process, even with your very nice work. It requires filling text entry fields. That's a step back from the purpose of a GUI. I'm not clear how icons can be removed or changed in position at all -- perhaps there is a way, and I'm too dense to see it -- if so apologies.

I'm afraid that unless there is a drag-to-move, drag-and-drop, and right click-to-remove functionality for its icons, wbar seems to me to be just an aesthetic gadget, that makes what I do harder.


Thanks for the comment vtpup. I've also got another tester not involved in dpup testing giving me some help with the gui. I do plan to implement easier icon changing. It is rather cumbersome at the moment, but it does work. It is simply there for those afraid of editing a file.

It is a work in progress Smile . I will make one more minor bugfix of the alpha then move on to beta with improved icon switching. Zigbert has given me some ideas with his Pwidgets gui which should translate across to the wbar gui just fine. So look out for something by next weekend. I may even release the next one for all Pups, more testers Cool . Especially with the help I'm getting. Wink

Anyone else got a comment good or bad? All comments help me to make this better. Don't think I'll be offended !!! Laughing

Cheers

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7836
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 17:32    Post_subject:  

Hi Jim1911

I think gposil has fixed the '476' legacy bug.
Run the following command to fix it now if you like
Code:
grep "DISTRO_VERSION=" /etc/DISTRO_SPECS |  cut -d "=" -f2 | awk '{print $1}' > /etc/puppyversion


Cheers

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10829
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 18:06    Post_subject:  

01micko wrote:
Zigbert has given me some ideas with his Pwidgets gui which should translate across to the wbar gui just fine. So look out for something by next weekend. I may even release the next one for all Pups, more testers Cool . Especially with the help I'm getting. Wink

Anyone else got a comment good or bad? All comments help me to make this better. Don't think I'll be offended !!! Laughing

Cheers


Well everybody knows where I stand for pwidgets, pbar/wbar etc from 4.2, 100% against desktop bling other than desktop icons, The desktop is the first thing I see when I bootup for like 2 seconds, Then its covered up with folders and browser pages. I like my desktop icon not to breakup when moving a folder across them and I don't like an extra 200 system links, I also don't like tossing extra resources out the door. I don't like fixmenus that takes twice as long to execute, etc So I hope pwidgets and anymore Bling stays in pet packages, Once its installed its a real pain to remove, last time I had to change/remove xdg menus, fixmenus, jwmrc-tray, system-links and a few others it was like being tangled in a spiderweb lol.
Please don't be offended micko but you pretty much knew where I stand on Pwidgets.
I also have a term for it, lol
Blingcreep: The act of adding bling one app/widget at a time, first you start with wbar then pwidgets, etc and before you know it the desktop is cluttered with bling, it creeps up on you. lol
ttuuxxx

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10829
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 19:11    Post_subject:  

hmmm I was having issues compiling the latest glib, then I added --with-libiconv=gnu to the configure and it worked, So for some odd reason this is needed. Should be maybe noted somewhere because it will save a lot of frustration trying to fix it Smile here's what I used for glib-2.22.2
./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var --build=i386-pc-linux-gnu --with-pcre=system --with-libiconv=gnu
I'm starting to rebuild the backend because the gtk is outdated, a few times I tried to compile other apps and it complained about it.
I'll try to drop some deps along the way Smile
ttuuxxx

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7836
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 31 Oct 2009, 19:47    Post_subject:  

Hi ttuuxxx

No probs mate. Gposil has put in wbar and all I'm doing is trying to make it easier for folk to configure. No mention of using Pwidgets just using some ideas from Pwidgets for configuration of wbar. Anyway, gposil is going to make wbar optional in the first boot wizard.

It's a good project for me since I'm fairly new at gui building and all the experience helps.

Cheers

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