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Multiuser Puppy 4.2.1
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2009, 03:06    Post_subject:  

Pizzasgood You have done a great job here. Thanks mate.

I saw earlier that you weren't going to do this for other puppies; wondering, though, if you would be able to do an add-on (pupget or something) that contains the extras needed to do this? Like Warren did with the EZ-pup updater he built.

Have tried the first version and got similar problems to your correspondents sent in, so felt shouldn't merely repeat others comments. However have downloaded R1 ISO so hope to look in another day or so.

It looks nice on the AspireOne - as nice as on a 19inch monitor Smile

Thanks again

Richard
where the crows fly backwards to keep the dust out of their eyes

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2009, 20:02    Post_subject:  

The problem with just making an addon is that the system scripts are where the most complicated modifications are. At the same time, those are the files most likely to change between versions. A .pet could theoretically do it by applying patches to modify those files rather than replace them. But as soon as a line of a script that was modified in a patch gets changed in a version of Puppy, the patch would no longer work and I'd get a bunch of people begging for an updated version of the patch.

If you look at the how-to thread I linked to in the first post, I did provide packages of the additional software I packaged or wrote, along with archives of many of the files that I modified. But I decided not to bother trying to automate the procedure. Besides the issue I mentioned, where you know that it failed, doing things automatically could lead to situations where a change between versions introduced some code that the addon doesn't catch. In that circumstance it would look like it worked. Maybe it would even boot and run properly. But there could be a subtle bug somewhere that would only come up in rare situations and be hard to diagnose. And it would be very bad if the user's motivation in using it was security related, because he could have all kinds of holes without knowing it. So that would make releasing such a thing almost feel negligent on my part.


And anyway, that would take even more time and energy, which I would much rather apply to other projects now that I've accomplished my goal here.

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct 2009, 05:50    Post_subject:  

Fair enuff mate.

I totally understand Smile

Take care.


Richard
where we went from winter to summer within 24hrs... the cats were indoors yesterday for the indoors warmth; today they are indoors because of the heat outside Smile

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stevoomba


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 70
Location: Rye Park NSW

PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct 2009, 05:24    Post_subject:  

It's always puzzled me why Puppy's never had the multi-user option. I'm quite happy to be root, but I don't see why there shouldn't be the option to go multi even in the official releases.

Thanks for the work PG.
Steve
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct 2009, 07:12    Post_subject:  

stevoomba wrote:
It's always puzzled me why Puppy's never had the multi-user option.

From what I've read, the original intention of the distribution was to have the fastest possible loading time, while running as a live distribution - in effect a diskless machine.

The less code that has to be loaded at boot-up, the faster it will run. And apart from the possibility of deleting the whole file system tree by a root user, there could be no security problems. That tree being located in memory, copied from the CD, it would be restored immediately on reboot.

The rest of this post may be slightly off-topic but is provided to explain the antagonism that exists over root user.

Having spent several years assisting with the development of another so-called "root only" system - which actually was a misnomer because it did provide multi-user facilities - it's interesting to note that its very wide user base never had one reported - or even one anecdotal - incident of invasive access by the actions of a cracker (NOT hacker).

Regardless of that, there will always be a vocal minority who will be determined to force their views on those who actually have "been there, done that" as it is called.

FYI I was assisting with the testing and release of several BSD-Unix versions over a couple of years or so at one time, and I got into really hot water through suggesting on their forum that a range of nicely coloured red wallpapers (backgrounds) for those who chose to use a GUI login as root, along with instructions on how to convert root GUI prohibition to root GUI enabling, and vice-versa, in Gnome and KDE was available on my website for those who wanted to exercise their own personal choice... for example ubuntu which by default does not allow root logins, vs Sun Java Desktop Linux which does (both of these are Gnome-based).

http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/root_wallpaper
http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/root_GUI_login

There was such an uproar by the vocal minority that I shifted my interest elsewhere.

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WarMocK


Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct 2009, 07:45    Post_subject:  

richard.a wrote:
FYI I was assisting with the testing and release of several BSD-Unix versions over a couple of years or so at one time, and I got into really hot water through suggesting on their forum that a range of nicely coloured red wallpapers (backgrounds) for those who chose to use a GUI login as root, along with instructions on how to convert root GUI prohibition to root GUI enabling, and vice-versa, in Gnome and KDE was available on my website for those who wanted to exercise their own personal choice... for example ubuntu which by default does not allow root logins, vs Sun Java Desktop Linux which does (both of these are Gnome-based).

http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/root_wallpaper
http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/root_GUI_login

There was such an uproar by the vocal minority that I shifted my interest elsewhere.

And those who make up this minority are the people who give the rest of the linux community a bad reputation. Rolling Eyes
I had enough discussions about that with other people when they asked me "how good this Linux thingy actually is". And right now, some of them are actually using various Linux distributions occationally, which is better than if they were still sticking to Windows only. There are enough people out there who would give Linux a chance, but are scared off by those wannabe-hackers who fear to lose their "elite" status if Linux gets too userfriendly and eventually reaches the masses.
Puppy Linux is PRETTY userfriendly when compared to other distros (okay, I am a former gentoo user, so anything is probably more userfriendly to me xD), but it still has lots of edges and stuff that needs some touch-up. And multi-user capabilities are a good addition imho, even if you don't need it personally - others may do for various (plausible) reasons, and you have to think about those epople as well if you want to get more feedback and drivers from the hardware vendors.
I'd love to see Puppy Linux 5.x offering optional multi-user support, but that's just me. It definitely wouldn't hurt.
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3393
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct 2009, 16:30    Post_subject:
Sub_title: Shutdown permissions and mounting permissions
 

In setting up a new user, if the new user is not allowed to shut down the computer, none of his work gets saved.
Also, If he cannot mount a usb flash stick, he cannot save his work externally.
So is there a way to lock the user out of accessing drives already installed and still give him the ability to mount and unmount drives added by him?
Just my thoughts..
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maxtothemax

Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct 2009, 21:43    Post_subject:  

Is there a good way to allow ordinary users to run the "connect" script?


EDIT: I've been poking thru the files on the PuppyLinux installation, and I can see that most of the applications are implemented as shell scripts. It should be easy to edit the appropriate scripts, add "sudo" to the right commands within those scripts, then give no-password permission for those commands in the sudoers file.

I'm working on the net-setup.sh and wag-profiles.sh files right now but I really don't know too much about hacking puppy linux. I'm not exactly sure what other files I may need to modify and if I will need to make any other changes (although thankfully the scripts look well-written.) Perhaps a real puppy linux developer would have an easier time of it than me?
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct 2009, 23:37    Post_subject:
Sub_title: Shutdown permissions and mounting permissions
 

8-bit wrote:
In setting up a new user, if the new user is not allowed to shut down the computer, none of his work gets saved.
You mean when he reaches for the poweroff button rather than getting root to come powerdown properly? The point in letting you disallow rebooting privileges is for people who are not supposed to turn the computer off at all (probably because it's a server so you want it on 24-7). If they can simply do it manually, then you need to either make so that they can't do that (place the physical box out of their reach, for example), consider punishments for people who mistreat your hardware, or give up and let them poweroff correctly so that they don't screw up your harddrives....

Basically the idea is that if you for example give people SSH access to your server, you probably don't want to let them poweroff the server on their own. People logging in with SSH generally are not within arms reach of the server, so manually hitting the button isn't an issue.



As for limiting the mounting of specific partitions, yes, you can do this. All you have to do is edit /etc/fstab and remove the "group" option for any partition that you don't want users to be able to mount/unmount. Any new partitions that are detected will automatically be given the group option.


@maxtothemax: Wouldn't it be easier to just use sudo to run the network wizard itself, rather than modifying it for all the little parts? Or does it not work that way? I have no experience with sudo, besides when I installed, configured, and tested it last weekend. I'm thinking you should be able to configure sudo so that anybody in the "network" group (which you'd have to create) could run "sudo /full/path/to/network_wizard", and then set up a wrapper script that runs that command and replace the "connect" icon with that.

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maxtothemax

Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct 2009, 01:59    Post_subject:  

Sorry, I should have explained-- I'm going to be turning this laptop over to a six-year-old girl as soon as I'm done setting it up.

The wrapper script would work I guess, but its hardly elegant in my opinion. I could clobber that together as a contingency but I'd prefer to do it "right" if I can.
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Eyes-Only


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1046
Location: La Confederation Abenaquaise

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct 2009, 10:50    Post_subject:    

.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct 2009, 14:11    Post_subject:  

Thanks.

Quote:
Sorry, I should have explained-- I'm going to be turning this laptop over to a six-year-old girl as soon as I'm done setting it up.

The wrapper script would work I guess, but its hardly elegant in my opinion. I could clobber that together as a contingency but I'd prefer to do it "right" if I can.

I kind of think that using a single sudo command to run the wizard would be more correct than embedding a bunch of sudo commands into the scripts. Seems more secure to me.

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timremy

Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct 2009, 02:30    Post_subject: multiuser
Sub_title: log in
 

hello pizzasgood

i would like to ask, i might be wrong, but with your pupplet,

when i start my computer and if i am running multiuser, i can

configure the program to ask for a login?

thankyou

timremy
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technowomble


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 76
Location: West Gloucestershire, UK

PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct 2009, 18:07    Post_subject: Can't create user
Sub_title: useradd unable to create /home directory for a user
 

Hi pizzasgood,

I'm running Multiuser Revision 1 as a full install on a Dell Latitude laptop - 192Mb RAM, 6Gb HD if that has any relevance - and if I try to create a user useradd fails to create a home directory with error code 3. I'm trying to create a user on a new install, and having looked at useradd it looks as if I should be able to create a user in a terminal by entering the appropriate parameters. Any thoughts on why the wizard isn't working or what I need to input in a terminal? TIA.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Thu 29 Oct 2009, 14:12    Post_subject:  

@timremy: Yes. Menu->Setup->Autologin Wizard.

@technowomble: Not sure why that would happen off the top of my head. One possibility is that you tried making a user with a capital letter in his name. I think it only likes lowercase letters for usernames. According to the man page, error code 3 means "invalid argument to option" but I'm not sure how you could have given it an invalid argument. Did you use spaces? You can't have spaces in a user name.

To do it from the terminal you would do this, assuming the user you were adding was named 'bob' and you don't want him assigned to any groups:
Code:
useradd -m bob
passwd bob
mkdir -p /etc/X11/bob
chown bob /etc/X11/bob

To add bob to some groups, for the useradd command you would do something like this instead:
Code:
useradd -m -G audio,disk,power bob

otherwise you could add him to the groups later with this:
Code:
gpasswd -a bob audio
gpasswd -a bob disk
gpasswd -a bob power

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