Puppy newbie comments

[etude]

I agree with the last post: like Ubuntu and variants - which IMHO have lots of somewhat contradictory information, due to it not being updated in a timely fashion -the challenge here is how to get at the basic info I want in the shortest time. Don't mind combing forums for hints, but a release note for the new 4.3.1 distro advising whether it supports scsi disks or not (as boot or simply7 as sd"x") would have been helpful. As it is, I am now under the impression that although the universal installer offers scsi disks as a target for the file system, only the IDE drives on my system will be supported. I guess I need a "puppy" or have to learn how to compile one. I did read the instructions from way back on how to make a SCSI disk bootable but noted there was no AHA-2940 in the code being added to the init scripts.
>>>>>> edit 12/5/09 Turns out the distro I wanted was listed right under the 4.3.1 I downloaded. Guess I shudda looked better. After stepping back and "practicing" navigation between all the help resouces, I'm better able to find stuff now, such as the narrative recommending the _scsi_modems iso.<<<<<<<<<<

An example of being left out in the weeds came as I tried to download and install the 2.0 SeaMonkey. Followed the Linux install instructions, downloaded and extracted, but the ./seamonkey kickoff fails, barking about some shared library it can't find. I have no idea what it needs to be happy. It's in usr/bin, BTW, which has a readme file advertising executables should run from there as it's in the default search path.
>>>>>>>> edit 12/5/09 This is a SeaMonkey problem that others have had. With more perspective under my belt, I now see this is not Puppy "Management's" problem per se. OTOH, the intro docs tout the new package management system so this was a bit bewildering at the time.<<<<<<<<<

So you see, if your target market is guys like me who vaguely remember some solaris command line stuff and are tired of microsoft crapware, it's got to be a little more accessible. Just tell me how to know, and where to find info, not necessarily spoon feed me.

On the plus side, it only took less than an hour from my google search on "small linux" to a live CD running on my old K6 clone, which I had spent many hours trying to force Xubuntu to install on. Keep up the good work.

>>>>>>> edit 12/5/09 Initially I got confused and/or disoriented finding and using the help resources for noobs. That probably comes from expecting all the ramp-up help or links to be in one startoff place, pref. the puppylinux.org home page. It still seems a bit scattered even now, though much better organized than my first perception. *If* the information is available, and practical to present simply, it would be nice if each official distro had more upfront specs on ballpark min hw requirements. A chart of which kernels come with which distros would also be a help. That way I could narrow down the distro choices after determining which kernel(s) are likely to run on the target HW; this seems to be a gating consideration. Authors of "offsite" puplets should be encouraged to provide similar info. This need only be in the form of a simple table and a link to it from the main help resource site. The table should also have a link directly to the download site where the distro can be found. Code tree authors can maintain the links to their sites as changes occur. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Of course, all info would come with appropriate "your mileage may vary" caveats. I am interested in working with principals to produce the suggested tools. Best regards<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[`f00]

Thank you, Paul Sheer (and Lobster..) and babaguy's post for reminding me of manuals and such.

..and yes, it's dl-able for easy browsing on your local 'bookshelf'

I had to ask "What's a Rute?".

[Lobster]

The aim of Puppy is not to need documentation.
Has anyone not terminally geeky ever read a smart phone manual?
Usability will become something worth developing further.

A good example is the Inklite package.
I know how to use Xara and so can use Inkscape - it is obvious.

Mtpaint developers despite reasonable requests
insist that their program is intuitive
It is a brilliant program
but it is not simple or easy to get the best from.

One of Barry's aims for Quirky 1 is that it should 'play any sort of media'
Exactly so. That is end user and noob expectation.

One of the surprising aspects of Puppy involvement
is wanting to be involved.

We have a news site
http://www.puppylinux.org/news/

We have a wiki
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage

that need constant updating, improvement and involvement
The number of people involved in these projects are small
By the time you have created your perfect plan for perfect documentation
. . . we will have moved on.

Perhaps you can help with documentation? Hope so

[yorkiesnorkie]

The aim of Puppy is not to need documentation.
Has anyone not terminally geeky ever read a smart phone manual?
Usability will become something worth developing further.

A good example is the Inklite package.
I know how to use Xara and so can use Inkscape - it is obvious.

Mtpaint developers despite reasonable requests
insist that their program is intuitive
It is a brilliant program
but it is not simple or easy to get the best from.

One of Barry's aims for Quirky 1 is that it should 'play any sort of media'
Exactly so. That is end user and noob expectation.

One of the surprising aspects of Puppy involvement
is wanting to be involved.

We have a news site
http://www.puppylinux.org/news/

We have a wiki
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage

that need constant updating, improvement and involvement
The number of people involved in these projects are small
By the time you have created your perfect plan for perfect documentation
. . . we will have moved on.

Perhaps you can help with documentation? Hope so

Hi Lobster,

Well, I'll admit I've never added to the wikka probably because although I've been using Puppy for a couple of years now, since 2.15CE, I still feel like I'm just getting to know Puppy, and Linux. I'm wary of steering someone wrong. I'll take a look at the wikka and see if there is anything there I can contribute to. So, I volunteer.

Overall, I'd say that when I want to find something out I first start looking at the documentation on-line, posts here, and then at other distros, and linux help online. Is that typical?

I'd say that most people, my spouse included - whom I've actually got using Puppy , just want to use their computer, and don't want to do anything more than push a button. My wife leaves the technical bits to me. She'll never configure wireless for example. While instant gratification has its place, as does the gui - which is useful to a lot of people, I'd observe that as an entry point to linux Puppy is pretty good overall. It has been a very positive experience for me. I've stuck with it though through various difficulties. If information is what people need at the wikka I'll do what I can to add to that if I'm sure I know what I'm talking about.

y.

[Lobster]

I'm wary of steering someone wrong

If something is wrong on a wiki people tend to correct it
- if you have sufficient editors
Anyway don't worry - all help welcome

[yorkiesnorkie]

How would you feel about someone going in and re-organizing a topic lets say in a more readable fashion for the target audience.

I'm thinking a topic should have some information in it at the top

Topic: Title
Difficulty: Simple, with Intermediate and Advanced concepts introduced
Applicability: 4.3.1, 4.3.0, 4.0

Editors: name1, name2,

INTRODUCTION

Topic - Simple e.g.

Follow these steps to Perform a Frugal Installation on fat32 - Simple

This topic presumes no previous knowledge of linux or its command line. All instruction will be given.

The following is a walk through of a Frugal Installation. Puppy linux will co-exist on a fat 32 partition with an legacy Windows 98 or 98SE OS.
Steps...a-z

Topic - Advanced e.g.

Compiling Software from Source - Advanced

This topic presumes the user has previous knowledge of the CLI. Not all steps are covered in exacting detail. Additional resources and references are offered for further study.

5 direct steps to compiling - A basic walkthrough
Advanced Concepts
-Modifying the ./configure
-checking for missing dependencies
-Creating a PET file to share with others
-Trimming the fat - What can I safely delete to reduce file size?
-Creating a menu entry and icon
-distributing your PET package

y.

[bossel6]

I read the instructions and felt 5 or 6 failures were most likely before I succeeded in the installation. I wasn't far off- took 4 or 5 tries. I felt the instructions were superb. I'm a 84 year old with cataract infested eyeballs. Patience and persistence is all I got left. I discovered a version 2.00 flash drive outperformed a version 1.00 by a " bunch."

[Lobster]

How would you feel about someone going in and re-organizing a topic

I am sorry I have only just seen this offer.
Go for it.
You don't need permission just register with raffy
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/UsingThisWiki
Despite tens of thousands of users
and regular offers of help
most work on the wiki is done by Coolpup

You might like to update this wiki too . . .
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Puppy_Linux

I am really rather humbled by bossel6
in the previous post

[dogle]

Welcome, bossel6, and thanks.

It's really cheering to receive such comments, whilst so many newcomers continue to report difficulty finding information.

Can you say a little more about your experience e.g. which Puppy version, and did you need to go beyond the built-in information?

[dogle]

Gentle thread bump, and a gentle reminder to all - devs especially - that by the generosity of those new to Puppy we continue to receive feedback of superb quality on newcomers' joys and woes, in the newbie feedback thread
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42593
Many thanks to to all who continue to contribute there.

I find it a bit depressing that, despite magnificent efforts by so many Puppy people (starting with Barry K) to make things easy for the newcomer, the predominant gripe remains 'It was hard to find the information I needed' or words to that effect.

(Yeah, IMHO the curse which has plagued Linux for so long - devs characteristically fail adequately to explain the excellence of their warez to the non-savvy, to the eternal benefit of M$ Corp, right?).

Anyway, the problem continues. Can anything more be done to sort it?

[Lobster]

LOL
Dogles post was a year ago . . .
He was instrumental in testing and supporting Puppy Phone, so he is doing his bit. Thanks Dogles

Updating the wiki is now done mostly by darkcity and myself
Coolpup is less active at the moment. More regulars welcome.

Puppy School is geared toward beginners and is now open for more
links, tutorials and other improvements
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppySchool

[anotherpuppyfan]

I was older and am learning-deterred, but when I found Puppy I knew it was the one to use, learn from, break and repair multiple times. I found Puppy to be easy to figure out how to install, upgrade and use.