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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development
Puppy 4.4 CE - Phase 1: pet tests
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4843
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2009, 21:25    Post subject: notes from testing  

Some of my own notes after testing 4.3.1:

1. Use of 4.3.1 and sfs4 OOo 3.1.1 - it's terribly slow in my 800 mhz system compared to using OOo 3.x in older builds like BoxPup 4.13 (based on Woof-ized/updated 4.12 using post-4.20 packages).

2. Use of autonomous HD-resident applications. I've been using Opera residing on hard disk with static libs, and I can switch Puppy versions and run Opera without problems. What's good about it is that my bookmarks and history are preserved in the Opera directory.

The implications:

a. Let us try making large applications hard-disk resident (they can also reside in flash drives) which can then be used across Puppy versions (am confident that I can use my Opera setup from Puppy 2.12 onwards). This way, we can focus on a small core Puppy with the most basic programs. (Puppy is not meant to be implemented anyway as one take-it-or-leave-it bundle.)

b. Implement OpenOffice the way Opera can now be installed, ie, full install to hard/flash drive, but useful across Puppy/Linux versions.

Hope that makes sense, especially given the sfs4 vs sfs3.x incompatibilities.

Addition: Can we try using a name for version 4.4, as searching is a pain without it. Say a name that starts with goo, as we are using googlecode for the first time. Goopy?

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panzerpuppy

Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2009, 23:00    Post subject:  

xpad (the sticky notes app) has been updated to v4.0.

Superpup says: compile the latest version and include it in Puppy 4.4 CE Very Happy
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4843
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2009, 23:43    Post subject: wishlist  

Here is a good additional wishlist:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=47908

BTW, am posting here 'coz I can't find the other "wish list" thread for 4.4. Sorry, am on the run.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4878
Location: Blue Springs, MO

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 00:12    Post subject:  

xpad-4.0-i486|xpad|4.0-i486||Desktop|100K|pet_packages-4|xpad-4.0-i486.pet||Jot down notes for later|puppy|4|official|
xpad-4.0-i486.pet
Description 
pet

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Filename  xpad-4.0-i486.pet 
Filesize  42.76 KB 
Downloaded  454 Time(s) 

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6735
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 00:50    Post subject:  

Xpad is one neat little pet. Works fine in 4.31 final.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8787
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 07:20    Post subject:  

Raffy,

You were talking about a codename... Googy or something? Goofy, nah, too Walt Disney..

4.3 didn't really have a codename, woof was bandied about but Barry differentiated between woof and puppy, correctly of course.

A codename is a good idea... mongrel? Laughing bitzer? I'm no good at this!

Anyway, techno, xpad is cool, using it already, not just testing it!

Cheers

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alienpup


Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 13:10    Post subject: Included apps and size  

dio444 wrote:
...The proposed solution (splitting out as many apps as reasonably possible into separate autoloading sfs) seems perfect to me. I really love the idea of a base pup_xxx.sfs that's ~50mb....Tom

I think we have to be careful with this one. Puppy needs to appear to newbies (and reviewers) as "fully functional" out-of-the-box. If something basic is missing, it's assumed "Puppy doesn't even have (whatever)".

A better and safer approach is to default to a traditionally "full" Puppy but to include the apps as .sfs packages. That way all users have complete control of what's "in" and what's "out". If you want bare-bones you simply disable the loading of all/some .sfs files.

I also urge that additional 4.4 apps (including third-party) be offered as .sfs rather than .pet (though 4.4 remains .pet capable). IOW, "modular".
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4878
Location: Blue Springs, MO

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 13:12    Post subject:  

updated Xcalc
xcalc-1.0.2-5-i486.pet
Description 
pet

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Filename  xcalc-1.0.2-5-i486.pet 
Filesize  13.18 KB 
Downloaded  395 Time(s) 

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4878
Location: Blue Springs, MO

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 13:21    Post subject:  

testing fossil version control software (with builtin server via localhost on port 8081 and a lot more in a really small package)

http://www.fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/tip/www/index.wiki

I have hacked this version to use builtin sqlite (had to update sqlite3)
fossil.gz
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gz

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Filename  fossil.gz 
Filesize  163.41 KB 
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 14:06    Post subject: Getting extra sfs files from PUPSFS  

Since, most sfs files tend to be rather large, I don't understand how putting sfs files in PUPSFS is a great, neat improvement for frugal installs on ntfs or vfat filesystems, (that don't support symbolic links).
I can already use BootManager to specify which sfs files are loaded, and the order they are loaded, for each individual frugal install.

What might be a more flexible improvement, would be to facilitate a new variable in BOOTCONFIG called EXTRASFSDIRECTORY, that specifies the extra directory to search for extra sfs files.

If EXTRASFSDIRECTORY were set to be the same as PUPSFS, this would do what some folk want.
But it would also allow me to set EXTRASFSDIRECTORY to /mnt/home/sfs4 or /mnt/home/sfs3, and so neatly separate the different versions of sfs files.

gyro

Last edited by gyro on Sun 18 Oct 2009, 14:08; edited 1 time in total
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sullysat


Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 367
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 14:07    Post subject:  

panzerpuppy wrote:
xpad (the sticky notes app) has been updated to v4.0.

Superpup says: compile the latest version and include it in Puppy 4.4 CE Very Happy


I'd like to second this request. xpad is extremely useful for me.

Sully

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dogle

Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 17:45    Post subject: Re: wishlist  

raffy wrote:
BTW, am posting here 'coz I can't find the other "wish list" thread for 4.4. Sorry, am on the run.


A most illuminating wishlist source is the newbie comment thread
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42593

- but this has become lengthy .... I've sought to summarise the most common pleas in
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=47021

- but that's got long as well, so for those who haven't time, 30-second summary:

The overwhelming wish by far is for easy access to up-to-date information on Puppy, by intelligent newcomers who are eager to learn. Ease of installation came in a poor second (and that is perhaps contingent on shortcomings in the first).

(OK, this is not essentially a devs problem, but nonetheless it would do devs no harm to consider: How will a tyro react to my creation? Is there sufficient info? Can I test it on a newbie to find out?).

Some recent pleas have highlighted the problem of those with poor/no internet access; formerly Puppy was a star amongst distros in providing built-in information, but this seems to have slipped badly more recently. (This point has been raised by Aitch a couple of pages back, top marks to technosaurus & team for keeping it in mind).

(Bling? Forget it! Just not an issue, per vox populi).

Personal plea: please think hard about the default browser homepage. This is the go/nogo crunch for the new Puppy user who has internet access. If it is clear and simple and explicit with no confusing icon links-to-links, less bewilderment, more Puppy users. The way it is now is rather baffling to the raw newcomer.

Bottom line: this is about Puppy's popularity henceforward; big thanks to all those newbies who have spoken up and told us the way it is.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4878
Location: Blue Springs, MO

PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2009, 18:45    Post subject:  

Lobster has been organizing contributions to the Wiki page with lots of support recently, so I think we are on the right track there.

We have been working on a simplified gui for installation - trying to incorporate a 1-click install (it may end up being 2 or 3 if necessary though)

How is this for a starting off page?... Let me know if it needs more tutorials etc...
http://pupweb.org/desktop

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dogle

Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2009, 04:41    Post subject:  

Yes, I too have great hopes for the new wiki but, especially for those with poor internet access, it is no substitute for good basic built-in information.

The suggestion of a future 'newbie version' with copious documentation included is very interesting, and if it ever happens I wonder if it might include a 'snapshot' of the future wiki taken just before release.

My 2c. on the Puppy Web Desktop: great job, but based on the feedback coming in I fear that, as it stands, it may be targeting the wrong 'market', at least for the time being. Our refugees seem generally to be bright people who want to understand how things work, and they are clamouring for information not decoration. Sadly, the non-thinking types are going to stay where they are, with a well-known commercial OS built specially to fleece non-thinking types, for quite some while yet ... ;-)
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Proudog

Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct 2009, 01:25    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
updated Xcalc


Traditionaly, Xcalc is compiled with: prefix=/usr/X11, what prefix do you use?

RoxFiler is to old the actual version is 2.10, i think that is need upgrade.
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