Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Wed 20 Aug 2014, 22:22
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
[HowTo] Turn On/Off Font Antaliasing
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 2 of 4 [47 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Author Message
Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1882
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2009, 03:44    Post subject:  

I guess all Pango and GNOME-based-applications use /etc/fonts/local.conf, as GNOME itself, and plain GTK applicatins use /root/.fonts.conf.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
ICQ Number 
mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8150

PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2009, 17:09    Post subject:  

Quote:
It must be as mikeb says: different ways that gtk, pango/cairo, libXft, Seamonkey are compiled, in different Puppies means that these different methods of font tweaking, produce different results on different Puppy versions.

yep seems like a black art to me..I just stumble on something that works and then don't touch...scientific eh Wink

mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
paulh177


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 875
Location: ST862228

PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2009, 02:25    Post subject:  

I've created an "on" .fonts.conf, and this has made Opera properly usable (without having to squint) on Puppy, but I get the following complaint when I start an app from the command line:

Code:
Fontconfig warning: "~/.fonts.conf", line 13: invalid constant used : hintall


Running on 430beta, frugal, on acer ascpire one

_________________
Want to report a bug or problem? Have a read of this first ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1882
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2009, 06:36    Post subject:  

It should be "hintfull" instead of "hintall", my mistake. Updated the tutorial.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
ICQ Number 
puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 758
Location: U.S., Midwest, Central Time Zone, GMT-6

PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2009, 11:49    Post subject:  

I’ve tried turning antialiasing off in Puppy and fonts look unacceptably jagged on all my CRT’s.

I note that in Ubuntu 8.04 Live in System, Preferences, Appearance, Fonts tab if I select Best Shapes it seems to help. When I say help I mean that this setting looks better than any of the other possible settings. I understand that Puppy and Ubuntu are apples and oranges by comparison but would it be possible to duplicate this setting in Puppy 4.2.1 and if so how would I accomplish this? Don’t sweat an answer because this isn’t critical for me. Thank you.

_________________
Learn more about Puppy Linux: Puppy Linux FAQ
Protect your privacy: Scroogle.org - Ixquick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2009, 12:56    Post subject:  

puppyite wrote:
I’ve tried turning antialiasing off in Puppy and fonts look unacceptably jagged on all my CRT’s.

I note that in Ubuntu 8.04 Live in System, Preferences, Appearance, Fonts tab if I select Best Shapes it seems to help. When I say help I mean that this setting looks better than any of the other possible settings. I understand that Puppy and Ubuntu are apples and oranges by comparison but would it be possible to duplicate this setting in Puppy 4.2.1 and if so how would I accomplish this?
My bci-hinting PET for 4.21 works well. If regular (not retro) kernel, you want the puppy-k2.6.25.16-v1-xorg-421 PET. If retro, puppy-k2.6.21.7-v1-xorg-421-retro.

I was confused, above, because I was not yet aware (I learned, after tipped-off by this thread, and studied the issue) that the core cairo font-renderer and its dependencies are compiled differently in different Pup(pie)s. iguleder's simple method works better or my 2-megabytes-(expanded)-dotpet-package method works better, depending on how these were compiled.

Before you apply my PET package, please rename /root/.fonts.conf (if present) and then, after the PET is installed, look at my fonting awhile and then rename it back, and then tell us if adding iguleder's .fonts.conf to my own PET gives better results or not. I am still not clear on under what circumstances cairo+libXft+libfreetype looks at /root/.fonts.conf and when it looks at /etc/fonts/fonts.conf. I have observed that principle is not always followed in practice, i.e. the situation is not always correct-according-to-design, as iguleder describes the simple, clearcut way-it's-supposed-to-be above. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 758
Location: U.S., Midwest, Central Time Zone, GMT-6

PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2009, 14:44    Post subject:  

Sit Heel Speak,
I had hoped that someone might have a simpler fix, in hindsight I see that such is likely not possible. I wonder if it would be possible for me to take a rain check on installing your pet file without giving offense? I hope so.

I wonder if I might ask you if you have ever tried your solution with a CRT monitor and if so could you please tell me how much improvement you saw? I realize my question is about like asking if you like the same amount of salt on your food as I do but there it is. Doubtless the best way for me to know how much improvement if any there might be is if I saw it with my own eyes on my monitor but without installing the pet that's not possible. Thank you.

_________________
Learn more about Puppy Linux: Puppy Linux FAQ
Protect your privacy: Scroogle.org - Ixquick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6427
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2009, 16:51    Post subject:  

Personally I consider SHS' method essential regardless of whether I have a CRT or LCD. It only makes well hinted fonts work well though - most Linux fonts look rubbish, and I presume the latest generation of Microsoft fonts (Calibri etc) do too, as they look rubbish on Windows if you manage to turn cleartype off... (these do almost look OK with Cleartype but no antialiasing).
_________________
DEATH TO SPREADSHEETS
- - -
Classic Puppy quotes
- - -
Beware the demented serfers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 758
Location: U.S., Midwest, Central Time Zone, GMT-6

PostPosted: Thu 27 Aug 2009, 18:22    Post subject:  

I don’t own an LCD and the only MS OS I have is WIN98SE where everything is aliased and there is no Cleartype. Maybe I’m ruined but I’m comfortable looking at Win98SE on a CRT, I’d like Puppy to look the same way. Sadly though when I turn off antialiasing in Puppy all fonts no matter what app I’m using look horribly jagged.
_________________
Learn more about Puppy Linux: Puppy Linux FAQ
Protect your privacy: Scroogle.org - Ixquick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6427
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2009, 02:27    Post subject:  

Use SHS's method and Arial then Smile
_________________
DEATH TO SPREADSHEETS
- - -
Classic Puppy quotes
- - -
Beware the demented serfers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1882
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2009, 10:49    Post subject:  

Win 98 has no font hinting at all, you just got used to it Smile
By the way, Calibari, Segoe UI, all the Vista-era MS fonts are "ClearType fonts", they look horrible and complete unreadable without any antialiasing. Your best choice is Tahoma, it's a readable, nice font, that also looks great with hinting on.

Regarding the "all the Linux fonts look like crap" statement, that's not true. When a font is missing, the default system font or some random font is used, sometimes it's Courier or any other junky MS font. To solve the crappy fonts problem, all you have to do is install the basic X fonts, then MS fonts and apply hinting.

EDIT: try this solution to get nice fonts on Puppy - use the "off" code, with antialiasing ONLY set to "true".

Code:

<match target="font">
 <edit name="antialias" mode="assign">
<bool>true</bool>
</edit>
<edit name="hinting" mode="assign">
<bool>false</bool>
</edit>
 <edit name="autohint" mode="assign">
<bool>false</bool>
</edit>
<edit name="hintstyle" mode="assign">
<const>hintnone</const>
</edit>
</match>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger 
ICQ Number 
Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2009, 11:13    Post subject:  

puppyite wrote:
Sit Heel Speak,...I wonder if I might ask you if you have ever tried your solution with a CRT monitor and if so could you please tell me how much improvement you saw?
I use a 16" Dell CRT at 1280 x 1024 as my day-to-day main monitor. Here's a screenshot of this thread in 4.21 with my tweaks,

This is with iguleder's .fonts.conf not installed. Just my local.conf and fonts.conf installed in /etc/fonts, and bci-hinted libfreetype added, through my PET, and then the three easy after-install steps performed.

Edit --> Preferences --> Appearance --> Fonts is set to use DejaVu Sans as the default proportional font, and do not allow webpages to use their own fonts.

Turning to Win98SE on the IBM Thinkpad T21 immediately to my left, the fonts look a little silly to me.

However, iguleder's simple method works much better than my PET on Puppy 4.12 and on upup-466.

As I say, cairo is compiled differently in those, it already has very good hinting built-in, and addition of bci-hinted libfreetype ends up with the overall rendering-system applying hinting-and-antialiasing twice, which comes out looking terrible.

But on 4.21, on a reasonably decent CRT, I think you'll be happier with my PET.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 758
Location: U.S., Midwest, Central Time Zone, GMT-6

PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2009, 16:00    Post subject:  

Iguleder wrote:
Win 98 has no font hinting at all, you just got used to it Smile


And the OS has no antialiasing. Yes, I am indeed ruined.

Quote:
By the way, Calibari, Segoe UI, all the Vista-era MS fonts are "ClearType fonts", they look horrible and complete unreadable without any antialiasing. Your best choice is Tahoma, it's a readable, nice font, that also looks great with hinting on.

EDIT: try this solution to get nice fonts on Puppy - use the "off" code, with antialiasing ONLY set to "true".


In this composite screenshot: http://i29.tinypic.com/j11vlj.png the upper window is default Puppy and the bottom is antialiasing true (per your suggestion) in: .fonts.conf.

Note the difference in the document text of the two examples.

Note the difference in the fonts of the menu bar in the two examples.

I would like to have the document text rendering of the lower window and the menu bar rendering from the upper window. Likely I am asking for the impossible.

Edit: If you are unable to see a difference between the two menu bars then look at how Help lines up with the left edge of the Page Width button. The the miss-alignment is small but it does prove that there is a difference in rendering.

_________________
Learn more about Puppy Linux: Puppy Linux FAQ
Protect your privacy: Scroogle.org - Ixquick

Last edited by puppyite on Mon 31 Aug 2009, 13:17; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 758
Location: U.S., Midwest, Central Time Zone, GMT-6

PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2009, 16:10    Post subject:  

SHS,
Thanks for the screenshot. After cleaning and donning my reading glasses I closely studied your screenshot. I found no difference between the text in the menu bar of your browser and that of mine. Web page fonts looked identical too.

I do not set Seamonkey to prevent web pages from using their own fonts. I wrote about that in a another thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=333087#333087 All my other Seamonkey Font settings are default.

Incidentally, you'd have more room for the address bar (or more buttons) if you turn off toolbar text in Seamonkey. If you turned it on for the screen shot or you just prefer it then ignore this.

What is: upup-466 (typo?) Just curious.

This may be a case of too much or too little salt:: "Turning to Win98SE on the IBM Thinkpad T21 immediately to my left, the fonts look a little silly to me." I'm not certain how to interpret "silly" as it relates to legibility, alaising, antialsing and or CRT vs LCD. Oh my, can I just send you my eyeballs and I'll have a look at all your PC's for myself?

I'm still procrastinating about installing your pet.. I have two identical PC built by me one of which still has a mostly virginal 4.2.1 install so in future I may decide to geek up and try it.

PS: Lest anyone think I'm some kind of super typist forget it, I composed my last two replies offline.

_________________
Learn more about Puppy Linux: Puppy Linux FAQ
Protect your privacy: Scroogle.org - Ixquick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6427
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug 2009, 17:25    Post subject:  

Quote:
Win 98 has no font hinting at all, you just got used to it

No, Win98 has bci hinting but no antialiasing. That's why the font rendering is good. IIRC you can get antialiasing if you install tweakui... but I don't know why you would do such a thing.

Quote:
By the way, Calibari, Segoe UI, all the Vista-era MS fonts are "ClearType fonts", they look horrible and complete unreadable without any antialiasing.

They also look horrible and completely unreadable with normal (full pixel) antialiasing - you need sub-pixel rendering (Cleartype is Microsoft's trademark for sub-pixel antialiasing, although I think in their Cleartype tuner some of the options use full-pixel antialiasing). And of course you still need bci hinting as well.

Quote:
Regarding the "all the Linux fonts look like crap" statement, that's not true.

Maybe not all, but certainly a lot of them. I think it is because they are designed for full-pixel antialiasing and are not well hinted, so they look bad when I have bci hinting enabled and no antialiasing. I am not talking about missing fonts.

Quote:
EDIT: try this solution to get nice fonts on Puppy - use the "off" code, with antialiasing ONLY set to "true".

You can use that if you want, but my eyes can't stand it for more than half an hour or something.

Sit Heel Speak - I thought you used to disable antialiasing for small fonts like in that screenshot?
I disable it and always use well hinted fonts like Arial and Times New Roman. I find antialiasing offends my eyes unless the fonts are big enough to be thicker than two or three pixels...

I haven't tried your pet, but I'm using 4.1.1, which I thought is pretty much identical to 4.1.2, and I find the fonts awful until I install a bci hinted freetype... I have quite an old one - I wonder if that is the difference, or if there actually is something different between 4.1.1 and 4.1.2?
fonts.png
 Description   My nice crisp (like Win98) fonts :)
 Filesize   11.94 KB
 Viewed   1674 Time(s)

fonts.png


_________________
DEATH TO SPREADSHEETS
- - -
Classic Puppy quotes
- - -
Beware the demented serfers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 2 of 4 [47 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0999s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0050s) ][ GZIP on ]