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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct 2010, 16:38    Post subject:  

Thanks, Aitch. I think the 431 problems are from 431, not the installer.

I'm going to get a Win7 soon that I can test on, so we will just have to wait...
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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Tue 19 Oct 2010, 19:08    Post subject:  

I just uploaded Puppy Linux Installer Creator V0.3. It's on the top of page 7. Please message me if you are going to try it with Vista/7.

Changes:

- changes boot.ini timeout if it is below 5 seconds
- requires admin privileges
- Vista and 7 support (experimental)
- upgraded registry support
- only asks to uninstall GRUB if it is the last puppy installed
- adds puppy linux to everyone's start menus (not just the installer's)

Known bugs:
- is not added to "Add or Remove Programs"
- may not work with
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 22 Oct 2010, 23:42    Post subject: Windows 7 installation styles  

Very nice promising project targeting Vista/7 included.
Better to make your new topic, noryb?

I have not yet made proper test on Windows 7, but like to give some information.

My Windows 7 installer made a special partition for boot.
The boot partition is 100Mb size ntfs but cannot be seen from Windows.
Puppy can see the partition as /dev/sda1, and the Windows system partion, C:, is /dev/sda2.

noryb's installer installs Puppy on C:, that is not a big problem.
But the C: may not be (hd0,0). In my case, (hd0,1).
I tried to edit the menu.lst from the windows, i am not sure the reason but i could not.
Anyway I like to request to make the menu.list more flex.
Code:
title Lucid Puppy Quickset edition 511
kernel (hd0,0)/Puppy-Linux-511/vmlinuz psubdir="Puppy-Linux-511"
initrd (hd0,0)/Puppy-Linux-511/initrd.gz
boot

to:
Code:
title Lucid Puppy Quickset edition 511
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /Puppy-Linux-511/initrd.gz
kernel /Puppy-Linux-511/vmlinuz psubdir="Puppy-Linux-511"
initrd /Puppy-Linux-511/initrd.gz

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat 23 Oct 2010, 01:46    Post subject: Windows 7/Xp  

I modified noryb's Puppy Linux Installer Creator V0.3, the main.nsi to arrange the menu.list.
Code:
title Lucid Puppy Quickset edition 511
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /Puppy-Linux-511/initrd.gz
kernel /Puppy-Linux-511/vmlinuz psubdir="Puppy-Linux-511"
initrd /Puppy-Linux-511/initrd.gz

Made a Luciid-Puppy-Quickset-511-installer.exe.
http://shino.pos.to/party/bridge.cgi?puppy/lupq/
Tested on Windows 7 and Windows Xp (different PC's). The account is the Administrator.

Both installed files correctly in the C:/Puppy-Linux-511 directory and grldr and menu.lst at C:\. The menu.lst is well arranged. The installer says, with the debug window, Windows 7 or Xp detected correctly.
But it seems not rewrite boot.ini(Xp) or BCD(7, cannot be seen), nor the MBR.
So the Windows boot up. The Puppy is not shown in the boot menu both my 7 and Xp test.

I installed Grub4Dos on the MBR, then the Puppy can boot.
But the Windows are not in the menu.lst, so Windows cannot boot.

I boot up Windows with the LupQ-511 live CD, it can boot up Windows without MBR boot record.

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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Sat 23 Oct 2010, 11:47    Post subject:  

shinobar: Thank you so much for your testing! I'll try out the new menu.lst format.

Quote:
But it seems not rewrite boot.ini(Xp) or BCD(7, cannot be seen), nor the MBR.


Hmmm... I don't know why that's happening there. Could you please boot XP, uninstall the current installed puppy, then start > run, type in cmd.

then, type:

Code:
cd c:\
attrib


Do you see a line like:

Code:
A  SHR     C:\boot.ini.backup


If not, type:

Code:
attrib boot.ini -s -h -r


then try the installer again, and see what happens. (run attrib again after and see if you see boot.ini with SHR in front)

if you do see a line with boot.ini.backup, run:

Code:
attrib boot.ini -s -r -h
attrib boot.ini.backup -s -r -h


Then open them both up with notepad and compair them.
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shinobar


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Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat 23 Oct 2010, 14:39    Post subject: Windows Xp, Worked  

Windows Xp, Worked!

boot.ini.bak was not created.
The attribute of boot.ini was ' SH'
After uninstalling Puppy, it automatically turnd to 'A SHR'
Then, excuted again the Luciid-Puppy-Quickset-511-installer.exe.
It worked this time and the Puppy boots up. Great!
I don't know or remember why the attribute of boot.ini was ' SH'.

But sorry, it is not common case but my MBR is already Grub4Dos.
I am booting up the Windows Xp from the Grub4Dos and chain to the ntldr.
The entry for the Xp:
Code:
title Windows XP
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

I edited the menu.lst from the Puppy, add the entry above and set the timeout 5.
Then rebooted and selected the Windows Xp, and found the ntldr offers Windows or Puppy.

Maybe it need not adding the Windows entry for these rare case,
but it can be better to make the backup if an existing menu.lst found.

Great work, noryb and thx for the support.
As for the Windows 7, maybe harder because I am not familiar with.

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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Sat 23 Oct 2010, 20:16    Post subject:  

Quote:
boot.ini.bak was not created.


Is it created now? (with the new install)

Quote:
I don't know or remember why the attribute of boot.ini was ' SH'.


It might be because you changed it, but I'm not sure.

Quote:
Maybe it need not adding the Windows entry for these rare case,
but it can be better to make the backup if an existing menu.lst found.


This method is meant for people who don't have linux fully installed, and want to try puppy, but don't want to burn/partition/other, it isn't meant for advanced users. I will come up with a back up system, though.



Quote:
As for the Windows 7, maybe harder because I am not familiar with.


Note: if this computer also has grub, see step 5 here

Please open up command prompt in windows 7 (not sure if start > run > cmd will work, you might have to find it in all programs) then run the following commands:

Code:
bcdedit /export "C:\Backups\BCD Backup2"
*backups current boot*

bcdedit /create /d "Start Puppy Linux" /application bootsector
*spits out a ID*

bcdedit /set ID device boot
*replace ID with the ID it gave you*

bcdedit /set ID path \grldr.mbr
*again, replace ID*

bcdedit /displayorder ID /addlast
*replace ID*

bcdedit /timeout 10


Next, could you please copy the entire window into a reply? It's (something like) right click > mark > click bottom right corner > drag to top left > let go of left mouse > enter (or just take a screenshot)
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat 23 Oct 2010, 23:36    Post subject: bcdedit denied  

noryb009 wrote:
This method is meant for people who don't have linux fully installed, and want to try puppy, but don't want to burn/partition/other, it isn't meant for advanced users. I will come up with a back up system, though.

Yes, you are right.
Think no problem with Xp. The boot.ini.back is created now.
My Xp PC is a secondhand and i do not know its history.
Anyway it works now.

Windows 7:
I tried 'bcdedit' you suggested but the access is denied.
I re-installed Windows 7, got same reaction.
Sorry, my screen shot is of a Japanese version.
My account 'shino' is the Administrator, i beleave.

EDIT: Just type 'bcdedit', it returned an error message.
It also says in Japanese, so hardly understand, but may be saying:
Cannot open the stored Boot Configuration Data.
Access denied.

EDIT: I got it a bit.
The Windows commandline is run with a normal user, not the Administrator.
Quote:
BCD Editor (Bcdedit.exe) is a command-line utility that lets you view and manage the BCD store. To use BCD Editor:
1. Click Start, point to All Programs, and then click Accessories.
2. Right-click Command Prompt, and then click Run As Administrator.
3. Type bcdedit at the command prompt.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ff404185.aspx

Thanks, noryb. We need further investigation on 7...
bcdedit denied.PNG
 Description   Screen shot taken using the snipping tool on Windows 7.

It says in Japanese:
Failed the oparation saving and/or export.
Access denied.
 Filesize   6.78 KB
 Viewed   947 Time(s)

bcdedit denied.PNG


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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun 24 Oct 2010, 00:15    Post subject: Re: bcdedit denied  

Quote:
BCD Editor (Bcdedit.exe) is a command-line utility that lets you view and manage the BCD store. To use BCD Editor:
1. Click Start, point to All Programs, and then click Accessories.
2. Right-click Command Prompt, and then click Run As Administrator.
3. Type bcdedit at the command prompt.

Now I can run the 'bcdedit' and the attached the output.
I already run my Luciid-Puppy-Quickset-511-installer.exe which worked on Xp, and the Puppy files and grub4dos loader and menu.lst is installed on C:.
But the BCD is not modified seeing this output.
bcdedit_by_Admin.PNG
 Description   Newly intalled Windows 7, after excuted my Luciid-Puppy-Quickset-511-installer.exe.
Seems the BCD is not modified.
 Filesize   21.85 KB
 Viewed   906 Time(s)

bcdedit_by_Admin.PNG


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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun 24 Oct 2010, 01:52    Post subject: grldr.mbr on Windows 7  

Now i believe i've got a good test on Windows 7.

On Windows 7, excuted my Luciid-Puppy-Quickset-511-installer.exe and the Puppy files and grub4dos loader and menu.lst is installed on C:.

I did bcdedt along with noryb suggested.
I run the Windows commandline As the Administrator.
  1. bcdedit /export "C:\Backups\BCD Backup2"
    Failed. It says the directory C:\Backups not exist. I ignored this step and went ahead.
  2. bcdedit /create /d "Start Puppy Linux" /application bootsector ...
    Success. See the attached. The bootmgr of the Windows 7 offers a menu with Windows/Puppy.
  3. But, selecting Puppy from the boot menu, it fails.
    The bootmgr says: cannot find the file \grldr.mbr.
    I run again the bcdedit and replaced the path to "C:\grldr.mbr", but agian the bootmgr cannot find it.
    EDIT: I could manage it. See the next post

    I remember my Windows 7 has a system reserved 100MB ntfs partition only for boot.
    Code:
       Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
    /dev/sda1   *           1          49      102400    7  HPFS/NTFS
    /dev/sda2              49       14680    31134720    7  HPFS/NTFS
    /dev/sda3           14680       19617    10506510   83  Linux
    /dev/sda4           19617       29379    20772045    5  Extended
    /dev/sda5           19617       28382    18651433+  83  Linux

    The bootmgr may count the 1st partition as "C:" and the 2nd as "D:".
    So i replaced the path to "D:\grldr.mbr", but again the bootmgr cannot find it.
  4. I restored the path to \grldr.mbr.
    Copied the /mnt/sda2/grldr.mbr to /mnt/sda1/grldr.mbr from Puppy because the Windows cannot access this 1st partition, system reserved.
    I boot up, selected the Puppy from the menu the bootmgr offers, OK, it can find the file this time and boots up Puppy successfully!

(I have another menu.lst on the 1st partition, so the grb4dos uses it and ignored the menu.lst on the 2nd partition the installer made. Don't care, it is my particular case, and taking the 1st menu.lst is no problem.)

My suspicion, the current noryb's Puppy Linux Installer Creator V0.3 got error and failed before editing BCD with some simple reason, may be easily cleared.
Next hurdle will be to support the case the Windows 7 having the special boot partition.
bcdedit_add.PNG
 Description   Success with copying the grldr.mbr to the 1st partition
 Filesize   9.66 KB
 Viewed   903 Time(s)

bcdedit_add.PNG


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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun 24 Oct 2010, 05:48    Post subject: Re: grldr.mbr on Windows 7  

shinobar wrote:
But, selecting Puppy from the boot menu, it fails.
The bootmgr says: cannot find the file \grldr.mbr.
I run again the bcdedit and replaced the path to "C:\grldr.mbr", but agian the bootmgr cannot find it.

I got it.
I removed the grldr.mbr in the 1st partition i copied.
The grldr.mbr is now in the 2nd partition, 'C:' for Windows.

I ran bcdedit and replace the 'device' entry.
Instead of:
Code:
bcdedit /set {ID} device boot

Replaced to:
Code:
bcdedit /set {ID} device "partition=C:"

The result of the 'bcdedit' command is the attached.

OK, the bootmgr can find the c:\grldr.mbr and success to boot up Puppy.
bcdedit_success.PNG
 Description   Success without copying the grldr.mbr
 Filesize   8.92 KB
 Viewed   885 Time(s)

bcdedit_success.PNG


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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Sun 24 Oct 2010, 13:13    Post subject:  

Interesting. Did the installer alert you that you didn't have admin privileges?

Quote:
bcdedit /export "C:\Backups\BCD Backup2"
Failed. It says the directory C:\Backups not exist. I ignored this step and went ahead.

Ok, the installer will have to create the directory first.

Quote:
I remember my Windows 7 has a system reserved 100MB ntfs partition only for boot.

Did you manually create this, or was it created automatically when you installed windows?

Quote:
Replaced to: Code:
bcdedit /set {ID} device "partition=C:"

Ok, I'll add that.

EDIT: When you typed in the ID, did you have to use the "{" and "}" around it?

Again, thank you so much for your help!
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun 24 Oct 2010, 17:15    Post subject: Boot partition, etc.  

noryb009 wrote:
Interesting. Did the installer alert you that you didn't have admin privileges?

No. My account 'shino' is admin i suppose.

Quote:
I remember my Windows 7 has a system reserved 100MB ntfs partition only for boot.

I remember at the first time intalled Windows 7 with its DVD on a blank HDD, The Windows 7 installer automatically made it. But it might be 200MB, i do not remember exactry. The 100Mb partition now is i created later when i re-construct whole the HDD.
http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/12604-200-mb-boot-data-different-drive-than-windows.html
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/127911-windows-7-insists-on-100-mb-or-200-mb-system-partition/
http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/54449-xp-dual-boot-issue-200mb-system-partition.html

Quote:
When you typed in the ID, did you have to use the "{" and "}" around it?

I add "{" and "}". I have not tried without.

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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Sun 24 Oct 2010, 19:41    Post subject:  

Ok, I tweaked the installer to include the things you suggested. I also added some debugging prompts.

First, uninstall your current puppy, then check bcdedit to make sure it's gone. If it isn't, run:
Code:
bcdedit /delete {ID} /f


When you install/uninstall, you will be able to see the commands before they are run. If anything is wrong, just end the process and delete the entry (if any) that it created.
Puppy Linux Installer Creator 3.1 - Alpha.zip
Description 
zip

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Filename  Puppy Linux Installer Creator 3.1 - Alpha.zip 
Filesize  244.7 KB 
Downloaded  217 Time(s) 
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun 24 Oct 2010, 21:49    Post subject:  

thanks, noryb009.
I am testing v3.1.
Maybe exporting backup succeeded(return '0').
But the installer freezes at creating new entry in BCD.
I have to kill the task from the Windows task manager.
Code:
When you install/uninstall, you will be able to see the commands before they are run. If anything is wrong, just end the process and delete the entry (if any) that it created.[/quote]
Output folder: C:\Puppy-Linux-511
Extract: lupq-511.sfs... 100%
Extract: vmlinuz... 100%
Extract: initrd.gz... 100%
Extract: readme.txt
Output folder: C:\Puppy-Linux-511
Output folder: C:\Backups
Output folder: C:
Extract: grldr... 100%
Extract: grldr.mbr... 100%
Execute: bcdedit /export "C:\Backups\BCD Backup"
Execute: bcdedit /create /d "Start Puppy Linux" /application bootsector

As for the '{' and '}', it required to enclose ID from my test on the commandline.

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