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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
HanSamBen-a derivative of Edupup with Gcompris 8.4- Alpha V2
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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun 2009, 03:45    Post subject:  

I have updated HSBV2Full. It has all the trimmings (Cups and Firepup) A meaty 221mb.

Just tested the new script (see Brand New below) and it worked brilliantly on a full install. The only problem was i looked away and it had finished, I didnt know what to do, so i will build in a message tonight and retest and then upload.

Very Happy Brand New
Easyinstall
Iinstall scripts from crash and rcrsn51 (Full and Frugal) the ram seeking part from Technosaurus and I can put my name to the script:
"xterm -e easyinstallstart" to get the ball rolling.

The install (easyinstall) can be accessed from either the setup menu or the key combo CTRL+ALT+I. (couldnt get the ALTGR)

Easyinstall will happily detect how much memory is in the machine, taking into account shared video memory, then wipe the harddrive install either full or frugal (depending on memory) and install grub.

The name easyinstall can be changed.

Bouyed by evenings in, trying to get my head around scripting, theres a couple more.
CTRL+ALT+H will hide the menus. To bring the menus back, navigate to /USR/BIN/RESTOREMENUS.

Gcompris is fully functional. There is still an error when run from the console, to do with gst-plugin-good and I tried several versions, but there are no adverse effects. It will also display a message “please wait,Gcompris is starting”. Scripting again!

The dosbox games, Fatty Bear and The Playroom now run in a window and not fullscreen. The mouse is also not locked into the game, so you can just click the X to close the window and not have to ctrl+Q or C or whatever.

How do you link to a particular post ina thread?

cj.veniot is doing a guide




http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43204[/code]
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun 2009, 07:42    Post subject:  

Fantastic Sidders! I think its great that a specialist kids derivitive is now the easiest of all Puppy Linux's to install! This is when its Puppy Linux's first primary mission objective..... "Puppy will easily install to [...] hard drive media".

Im really looking forward to testing the new HSB, please upload even alpha or "in progress" versions and I will give them a run-through..."many eyes" Smile

To link to a particular post in a thread, look at the number after the "start" in the url..like this...

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43030&start=57

basically, count how many posts down the one you want to link to add that number to post number. This forum displays in pages of 15 posts per page. To get the link above I had to add 12 to the 45 that was on the page, giving 57.

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ljfr

Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun 2009, 08:09    Post subject: Thanks, working great
Subject description: few feedbacks
 

Hi Sidders, thanks for this derivative, it's working great.
I tested the v0.2 with few feedbacks:
-Some help html files shortcut/menu errors: you might set the /usr/local/bin/defaulthtmlviewer to Netsurf to solve this.
-Few shortcut are missing in /root/.config/rox.sourceforge.net/OpenWith/, to be deleted/amended?
-there is no menu icons for Fatty bears, Playroom, Firepup. I don't know why, I made it worked by creating a fbear.png from the FBEAR.ICO with gimp, but there should be better solutions.

suggestion:
"cj.veniot is doing a guide", add this future guide in the menu "help" or the welcome1stboot.htm ?

I had just some problem exiting one dos game (don't remember which one), then I just killed X. I found some hints in my-documents afterwards.
If needed some guidelines could be put onscreen, starting the game with a script:
#!/bin/sh
yaf-splash -font "1x2" -placement top-left -outline 0 -margin 0 -bg grey -text "Alt+Q to Exit" &
X1PID=$!
fattybear
kill $X1PID
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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Sun 07 Jun 2009, 08:06    Post subject:  

Full Fat at:
http://www.ecomoney.eu/hsb/

and

http://www.filefactory.com/f/4e743f02873f2576/

as described a couple of posts above.

ljfr- i have done the icons for the dos games and well pointed out in the nick of time, the open-with. I have ammended one and deleted the others.
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cj.veniot
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Jun 2009, 12:19    Post subject: HanSamBen "Getting Started" user guide: format and location  

Hello,

I had thought of putting a guide together in PDF format, but I thought it good to ask what format you would prefer.

I'm thinking that users could pop the HanSamBen CD into any computer to view the guide (or print it, or parts of it) before trying the CD, in case their having problems of just want to get oriented first. Just about anybody on any machine with any O/S can open that.

Problem is, I don't think HanSamBen has a PDF viewer, to view documentation while running this distro.

Suggestions?

Much appreciated. Best regards.
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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jun 2009, 16:55    Post subject:  

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4859
Location: Blue Springs, MO

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jun 2009, 20:34    Post subject:  

MU's vala picture viewer is smaller than epdfview and will view pdfs

if you want to use html dillo2 can view html & I have cut it down to a 360kb pet (only 364kb installed)...
I removed the desktop file so that it won't show up in the menu and deleted all of the plugins (let me know if this works for CUPS too - it may need just one or 2 plugins - the biggest of which is download, which if removed makes it only about 420Kb)

I will attach both

to make it easy you could even put the dillo binary in the same location as the html file and run it with a script


Code:

#!/bin/sh
exec ./dillo gcompris.html


and because this dillo is statically compiled it should work on any version of linux

I also wanted to test out starting directly into gcompris - need to look up the command line argument to tell it to start full screen then try "startx gcompris -<whatever it is to start full screen>"

I would like to get it set up to boot directly to gcompris... maybe by changing the contents of /etc/windowmanager from "jwm" to gcompris -<whatever it is>

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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 02:43    Post subject:  

for full screen

[/code]gcompris -f
Code:

Last edited by sidders on Wed 10 Jun 2009, 09:28; edited 1 time in total
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ljfr

Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 11:25    Post subject: thanks, a really great release...  

hi sidders,

I downloaded the full version (including firepup),
It's working great, and the desktop is even nicer this way.
2 minor feedbacks:

- The initial "Welcome! Click here for getting-started information" banner is not working, since the /usr/local/bin/defaulthtlmviewer is not well defined. If you want to skip this message, you could modify the script /usr/sbin/delayedrun.

- for HHH, you can launch it full screen if you want,
but the game is too fast/difficult for me Embarassed , then I made some changes (see HHH post).

NB: Following your guidelines, I have childsplay working (see childsplay post).
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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun 2009, 09:32    Post subject:  

Thanks ljfr, i noticed the Childsplay post, i was stuck and had run out of ideas. Will work on the "getting started", but first i will have a look at it to see if its relevant (i've never looked before Rolling Eyes ) and i will look at the Dillo and cups.

Just burning Quimo http://www.qimo4kids.com/ to see whats going on there.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun 2009, 23:02    Post subject:  

Hi All! Ive been testing the new HSB release...very impressive! Ive installed it now on both of the computers at the pre-school (replacing the previous Ecopup one), and Ive also demonstrated it to teaching staff at a new school in my area who were also very impressed with both the technology and its aims.

The primary school in question (with its own nursery so they teach children aged 3-12) originally contacted me to dispose of a "waste problem" of a suite of windows 98 era computers (approx P500/64mb from my brief inspection). I pick up a batch of computers about four/five times a year (for free) and recycle them on to people in the area or charities/community groups.

We dont actually have enough storage for them at the moment (theres a glut of very high spec computers since Vista came out), so I suggested that I demonstrate HSB to them as a means of keeping the computers useful to them rather than pay twice to have them disposed of and again to have them replaced. First I demonstrated HSB on the deputy heads own computer which was still running Win2k. She was asking about the office suites and luckily HSB still has Abiword included...which she was very impressed with the speed of on her ancient computer. She obviously thought it to be a solution for their older children but I explained that it was primarily aimed at the 2-6 year old age groups, although there were other linux's that may suit her older childrens needs. I was then introduced to her Nursery teacher, who I demo'ed HSB to as well, and she said she would love to have a couple of the old computers available for the nursery section of the school.

She was particularly interested in the "free" aspect of the software and was curious how it managed to fund itself. I explained open source was the largest voluntary project on the planet, and that although some (lucky) developers are paid, most do it either for a hobby, for ideological reasons, or to serve their own or the company they work for's needs. She said they were so used to paying through the nose for all things Information Technology. I explained Ecomoney Systems was a non-profit social enterprise and our primary role was research into how to make Open Source more usable/desirable, and that any knowledge/experience they could give us was worth far more than a bunch of waste computers.

The computer suite she showed me was obviously state of the art and would have cost a LOT of money when new. It was well equipped with networked printers, desks, Ethernet wiring, a Windows NT fileserver etc. It also had a SmartBoard interactive whiteboard. This is basically an overhead projector hooked into a touch sensitive whiteboard, allowing the teachers to project an image from the teaching computer and highlight buttons and ways of doing things so the whole class can see. I believe a linux driver exists.

After a bit of discussion, we found there was a second smaller IT suite at the school. The plan she will be running past the other teachers is to move the new computers out of there into the teaching suite, give some of the win98 computers there to the preschool department for HSB, and the win98 computers moved to the smaller room and loaded with Linux to extend their lives. Apparently this is currently some sort of open access teaching room, where children and teachers can go and do their research...so it is ideal for linux. Unfortunetely a lot of the curriculum is based around using software that is only available for Windoze (damned UK government!). I also heard about their IT tech, who works one morning a week on "hire" from another local school. Apparently he has mentioned open source before and is a big fan...although he hadnt quite put it in the ways I did. This is going to be a big bonus should they choose to migrate some of their systems to Linux. They will be bringing the subject up at the staff meeting next week and Im expecting a call! Very Happy

I also today installed HSB at the preschool, this time on both computers. It was the first chance I have had to test the [ctrl]+[alt]+[I] installer in earnest..and Im afraid I must report a failure. The machines are 256/192mb of ram respectively...so the installer automatically chose to do a frugal install. I didnt test the full installer.

The installer formatted the drive and installed GRUB fine, but failed with a "file not found" error when copying the "pup_412Edu.sfs" from the cdrom to the newly formatted hard disk. The culprit is on line 63 of the "/usr/bin/frugal-install" script included in this version. The last line in this section of code.

Code:

#Install Puppy
echo
echo Copying Puppy files ... Please wait ...
echo
cp -v /mnt/cdrom/vmlinuz /mnt/sda1
cp -v /mnt/cdrom/initrd.gz /mnt/sda1
cp -v /mnt/cdrom/pup_???.sfs /mnt/sda1


The actual filename that must be copied in this case is "pup_412Edu.sfs", but the wildcard "pup_???.sfs" means "copy any file with three letters/numbers between the pup_ and the .sfs .". The HSB file has six ("412Edu"), so

Code:
cp -v /mnt/cdrom/pup_??????.sfs /mnt/sda1


would be needed...however...

If the line were to read

Code:
cp -v /mnt/cdrom/*.sfs /mnt/sda1


this would mean that *any*/*all* file(s) with the .sfs extention would be copied onto the hard disk. This would mean that addational addon packs could be included on the CD, that while to big to be included in liveboot, would become available in the Hard Disk installed HSB. This may be a good way to include the KDE educational applications (such as ChildsPlay), which although very good require massive libraries to run. There is still a fair amount (about 380mb) of spare space on the CD which would be enough to hold a massive amount of extra games and more specialist software for dedicated HSB computers. As .sfs addons are not loaded into RAM until required, this would not increase the memory requirements by much.

The two teachers that tested it (Sandra and Vicky) at the Priory Lane preschool were delighted by the extra software, and were particularly impressed by the interactive storybooks, and the additional drag and drop shape programs they had requested (as well as the colourful new wallpaper). They didint have the time (class was on) to look through everything although they did say they will be preparing a full report when they had the time. Another of the teaching assistants (and by request two of the parents running WinXP) took CD's to test. Unfortunately Sandra and Vicky both run standard puppy/ecopup at home and the pup_save.2fs files would conflict with their systems.

They did manage to find a few things in the short time they had on them however...

-Double click desktop icons are too difficult for the little ones to master on their own, it really needs to be single click to start.

-The game that creates puzzles from pictures (including the puppy 1.08ce wallpaper!) is a little too difficult for the age group

-It would be nice for the icons to be spaced out evenly around the screen

The Windowed DOS games worked well and the teachers had no problems exiting from them.

Sidders, if you think it would be a good idea too, I would be happy to prepare some of the double/single click icons from Ecopup to use in HSB. These allow programs to be launched from desktop icons with *either* a single or a double click, and put up a simple splash screen to give the little ones feedback while the program is loading...else they tend to just click and click until the program (or several instances of them) appear. This would be useful on slower computers where some of the heavier games may take a couple of seconds to load. They also prevent several instances of the program running if an icon is clicked several times....patience is something that is learned later in life Smile

You can download them from here if you want to check them out. Ive tested them on HSB and they do work.

http://ecomoney.eu/hsb/code/ecopup-icons.zip

Although you may have to get a tiny updated xmessage (called gxmessage I think ) for them to display the splash properly. It would just be a (time consuming) process of changing one of the icons to have the correct message/bitmap, and to call the correct program. You can get "inside" them to see how they work by right clicking them in Rox and selecting "look inside".

I took a quick look at Qimo too. It is based around Xubuntu, who's hardware requirements are much higher than Puppies. From its FAQ

qimo wrote:
Q: What are the hardware requirements for Qimo?
A: Qimo needs a minimum of 256MB of memory to run from the CD, or 192MB to install. At least 6 GB of hard drive space is recommended, and a 400MHz or faster CPU.


I actually had HSB running manageably on a pentium 1 150mhz with 128mb of ram the other day, using about 500mb of space. It also includes a lot less games than HSB (only gcompris/ tuxtype /tuxpaint/ Childsplay and etoys). My experience with ubuntu/xubuntu is that its considerably slower than Puppy, with less hardware support out of the box.

They do however have a really nice logo and website...perhaps something to start giving some thought to.

Anyway Sidders/everyone, thank you all for your work, its amazing how quickly this has taken shape. Its going to be an extremely useful piece of technology to a great many people when it is finished...which I can see is getting nearer by the day. Thank you particularly Sidders for including my suggestions and reacting/responding to the feedback from the preschool. Ive got the "mums testing team" to contact now on facebook, as well as the Lincolnshire Life magazine. Keep up the good work!

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12629
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun 2009, 23:17    Post subject:  

Code:
cp -v /mnt/cdrom/*.sfs /mnt/sda1

This is how a frugal install is handled in the current version of the one-click script. It also accommodates those Puppies that use a zdrvxxx.sfs file. It would be nice if sidders replaced the prototype version in HSB with the latest version. This would avoid any future confusion if he decides to change the base Puppy of HSB.
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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 03:36    Post subject:  

thx all. A lot of these are oversights from myself. I did make a list, which disappeared, i suspect it was ingested by an 18 month old named Sam!. I will make changes as they come up.

I have experimented with Ktuberling, just to make it work i posted the results, so they are there to come back to. It still needs a lot more work. Just trying out a Gnome app called Phonix. The idea is to try and get as many apps in the KDE and Gnome with a few libs as possible. For example KDE games shoves all sorts of apps on, like Konquerer etc.

The Quimo didnt work, i will have to download it again. I was looking at that just to get any ideas. Its a massive 698mb, and its Ubuntu, so its not at all in contention. Tried to get Tux4kids, but that seems to have been abandoned (last update Nov 2006).
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 08:18    Post subject:  

Sidders, sharing a home part of the time with 3 children myself I can only sympathize with what your your "working environment" must be like Smile
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 884
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 09:45    Post subject:  

Coupla points while the kids are asleep at my end:

sidders-
Quote:
The idea is to try and get as many apps in the KDE and Gnome with a few libs as possible. For example KDE games shoves all sorts of apps on, like Konquerer etc.

You might be interested in this thread of gposils and comments from dejan555 relating to minimal KDE - around 26MB for the 3.5.9 base http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=314717#314717

... promised feedback from 3 sub-7y.o. nephews - "HanSamBen2 ROCKS". Their Grandmother is especially amazed at the aplomb and skills of Mr 3 and gCompris' pacman... most especially, boys 3, 5 and 7 sharing the computer and switching to their preferred levels in total harmony and with minimal adult supervision over hours of play truly speaks volumes for your choice of educational software. We have Linux converts there...

ecomoney and sidders-
ecomoney has raised the issue of the apparent complexity of installing Puppy (and GRUB!) as being a major drawback in its uptake by the general population. I wish that there was not only a simpler path, but also the provision of additional info and explanations if I wanted (from time to time, depending on my installation requirements if my memory needs refreshing for certain options - and avoiding outdated warnings re superfloppies or grub installs to MBR etc etc). And I hate that void between the puppy install and the grub install - I seem to remember earlier distros that nicely held my hand between those two installation phases...
What about an installation environment running as simply and easily as webpage navigation, with all the successive stages just hyperlinking the otherwise unseen old dialogue windows? Mouseover tips, help screens as required, but overall an attractive candywrapping to the sticky issue of installation?
That way, the html "GUI" might be modified as required by the puplet authors - perhaps not with flash gimmicks but at least wallpapers and radio buttons appropriate to the intended audience. Maybe on-the-fly network installation and downloading of extra pets (e.g., Ri-li etc) could also be achieved here, or the loading of wanted SFS's to the home directory... Installation would be more of a "choose your own adventure" as it should be, and less of a "read all the technical smallprint and pray you haven't done anything wrong" anxiety for novice users.
I'd buy that - if it were possible - but I'm not a programmer or web designer so I don't know the practicalities.

Cheers.
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