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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
HanSamBen-a derivative of Edupup with Gcompris 8.4- Alpha V2
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4353

PostPosted: Fri 22 May 2009, 22:39    Post_subject:  

I made a couple of tweaks to it:
added custom control panel
removed network kernel modules
deleted static libraries (.a and .la)
deleted extra locales
deleted cups
deleted netsurf
removed extra locales
modified startup to skip kb & mouse
deleted extra documentation
replaced some large files with symlinks to duplicates or other compatible
removed some ntfs tools to prevent kids from damaging a windows install
removed other unuseful programs
simplified menu
some more stuff to make it 2-3yr old friendly (my kids ages)


I think you may be able to remove *.pyc and *.pyo files - haven't tested

... currently uploading - with my connection it should be up sometime tomorrow

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4353

PostPosted: Sat 23 May 2009, 03:43    Post_subject:  

It's up now and weighs in at ~174mb - I have no blank cds with me so haven't tested the iso but did a manual frugal install and it worked well

I decided not to remove the pyc and pyo files so that they wouldn't take up additional space in the pupsave file when created and also to help out with slower cpus

http://puppylinux.asia/members/T/puplets/hsblite_alpha.iso

the secret codes are puppy and linux

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sat 23 May 2009, 07:15    Post_subject:  

Good work technosaurus, what locale is the keyboard set to now...not that it really matters so much for a kids distro as long as it is vaguely English.

Im downloading it now to give it a spin, along with the full install.

Ive mentioned .sfs addons before...could printing be an .sfs module like the internet/networking modules?

@ Sidders

Yes, it is a big age range, Im not sure that were going to get anywhere with it (the UK School system is tied in very much with Micro$oft), I would say progress as we are and keep this for the little ones until we know for sure.

I had some problems like Micko1, with the pup_save.2fs from other puppy installs being overwritten. Im going to make those tweaks to change the name of the file it looks for.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4353

PostPosted: Sat 23 May 2009, 14:55    Post_subject:  

I have it defaulting to US and automatic mouse detection...
I wanted it to automatically go to Xvesa, but I haven't quite figured that out yet.
Either way you can change it in Setup from the menu.

Note: you can run fixmenus so that the Setup program is no longer accessible to the kiddies. (you can always access it by hitting "!" in a ROX folder and typing "pcp" in the box that appears at the bottom ... same goes for any of the other programs)

btw I also removed gparted since that could really cause problems. I just use a different puplet if I need to change any partitioning.

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sat 23 May 2009, 16:45    Post_subject:  

Hmmmm....xvesa could hurt the little ones eyes as it only displays at a very low refresh rate Sad Perhaps an automatic xorg 800x600? If you leave the original xorgwizard script intact, changes could be made using the [ctrl]+[alt]+[bkspace]-xorgwizard method, which would leave all the origional functionality intact.

I would be very interested in you updated xorgwizard script when you have doe for some other projects I have on. I would much appreciate a little explanation/run through of the changes you have made.

Ive started a project to auto-install a puppy on a dedicated machine I hope sidders will include in one of the later versions...it will basically wipe the machine of all data and turn it into a dedicated HSB only machine...good for schools getting rid of old computers (which they currently here in the UK have to pay for), or for people wishing to give their old p.c. to their kids.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42660

So gparted is definetely something that needs to go!

Ive only had chance to give HSB a very brief spin so far Crying or Very sad because Im on a deadline for the Mission cybercafe project...but something I thing would be needed is some desktop shortcuts for the many programs. Kids this age havnt really developed the "mouse dexterity" (at least on their first boot of hsb Very Happy ) to navigate to the "fun" menu yet.

Thank you for contributing your considerable expertise to this project technosaurus.

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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2009, 00:59    Post_subject:  

sidders - 3 hearty Cheers to your muses, Hannah, Sam and Ben!

HanSamBen (v1) had already made it to the top of my desert-island discs: Nick and Leah, my sub-6 progeny, love it and I also mailed a CD off (loaded with ttuuxx's beaut VLC lite http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=31890) to their interstate cousins (3 boys sub-7) where it has been getting rave reviews. (More details to follow, - although those boys have the cheek to go back on occasion to the original EduPup200 I loaded for them, where I had included their favourite, Ri-Li.)

But Now Look What You've Done.

Having lost track of your forum this last fortnight-ish, I see that not only have you brought your project further up to speed, but you have gone off the scale with (and I can't wait to test it with the classic 'Lords of Midnight' remake) the DosBox packaging, AND Ri-Li and others, AND you have none other than technosaurus adding polish-plus to the project.

Blimmin 'eck. ...talking 'bout a Revolution (sounds like giggling children). [with apologies to Tracey Chapman]

Congratulations, and Thanks!

P.S. I have only to tinker with WineLite and FuseISO to load up all the kids "Learning Land" CDs and others, and my children may never remember the Windows OS.
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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2009, 03:51    Post_subject:  

Cheers Puppyt.

Its Terrific having Technosaurus's technical tenacity, producing a Lite version.

Smdelfin
I just have to check a couple of things and i will post a full fat version (web, cups, Dosbox etc) up today.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2009, 08:35    Post_subject:  

Some more good news!

Crack Developer rcrsn51 has produced some scripts for easily doing FULL and FRUGAL installs of 412! These essentially wipe the hard drives of the machine (sda1 or primary master), install GRUB and copy all of the files from the CD into the correct places. The drives need to be UNMOUNTED for this to work (I believe).

Development thread here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42660

It would be great to have these scripts in HSB as it would mean that non-technical teaching staff could rejuvenate their older Windows PC's with this. Currently in the UK they are paying £10 a shot to have them taken away. Obviously they would need to be well hidden away from the little ones in HSB...somehow.

Ive not tested them yet with HSB, but I will be giving it a try later.



Here they are!
installers.tar.gz
Description  HSB Installers
gz

 Download 
Filename  installers.tar.gz 
Filesize  957 Bytes 
Downloaded  263 Time(s) 

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2009, 10:49    Post_subject:  

Ive given them a test with HSB and the BOTH work Very Happy

I just had to make a little tweak to the scripts, as they look for a file on the CD for pup_412.sfs, not the pup_412hsb.sfs the HSB uses. I did this by opening it in a text editor, and doing a search for "_412" (for the FULL) or "_4xx" for the FRUGAL version.

Ive got our live-in nanny across the room from me now doing a full test and evaluation of HSB (with a smile all over her face!) who will be reporting later. For the moment, one possible improvement would be to set the HSB back to single click to open...the double click will be a bit tricky to master for the little ones, as will the fun menu navigation.

Im not sure that a taskbar is needed at all on HSB, as the children will only be playing one game at a time. All I can think of is changing the volume, but I think these could perhaps be assigned a hotkey combination. Im wondering also if the [ctrl[[alt][backspace] "three finger salute" could be made to automatically log back into X desktop. If a crash does occur, then it would be really fast to get it working again...something to bear in mind if you have a screaming toddler with a crashed game next to you! Perhaps this could be extended to cover the far more widely known [ctrl]+[alt]+[del] windows variant too? Some of the DOS games Ive had reports are difficult to "get out of".

Mouse detection works fine on the lite version with usb mouse. Very Happy

Just one bug report....

When running the battery/bulb/wires/switches game in gCompris, the bulb doesnt light up when wired together. from the command line I did

Code:
gcompris>>err.txt


And played the game, this produced the following result..


Code:

exec_prefix NULL
XF86VidMode: Not compiled with XVIDMODE
package_data_dir         = /usr/local/share/gcompris/boards
package_locale_dir       = /usr/local/share/locale
package_plugin_dir       = /usr/local/lib/gcompris
package_python_plugin_dir= /usr/local/share/gcompris/python
Infos:
   Config dir '/root/.config/.gcompris'
   Users dir '/root/My GCompris'
   Database '/root/.config/.gcompris/gcompris_sqlite.db'
('Failed to run gnugap with error ', 32512)
('Failed to run gnugap with error ', 32512)



gnucap is the library that handles electrical circuits...this was missing on gcompris in ecopup.

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2009, 11:53    Post_subject:  

Testers Report


Sophie Eales - "childcare consultant"

Test Rig - Ex School RM Educational Computers Pentium 1.6, 512mb RAM

HSB Lite, installed FULL using full install script above.

Issues:-

- "Fatty Bears Birthday Surprise" and "Playroom", no obvious way of exiting application ([esc] does not work)

- gnuChessBoard, inactive menu link

- Leafpad text editor....opens oversize, "x" not visible on RHS of screen

All other links/applications functioning well. Smile

Thoughts/Observations

A lot of FUN, new tuxpaint stamps supurb excellent!

Double click on icon difficult for children.

Icons on the desktop for all games to make them easy to find.

Colours nice and bright, attractive to kids Smile

Grey taskbar could "autohide"/not necessary

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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Mon 25 May 2009, 12:15    Post_subject:  

Your right the Dos games all require different key combinations to exit. I'll see if something can be done.

I can hide the menu's, i did this in the nursery in Rawtenstall, hence the Shut Down icon. I have icons for all apps, apart from Playroom. I'll grab a tux or something for that.

With X crashing (normally due to too many apps open), i twiddled with a file, to remoce bootcnt (i think), then told then to poweroff and back on again. Went straight back to X.

Someones screaming upstaires gotta go, rest assured all points taken.

PS. thanks Sophie
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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Tue 26 May 2009, 15:08    Post_subject:  

I have fixed the Gnucap in a Full Fat version, with browser, cups and all the games. Used GNUCAP from Gslapt.

Removed Bootcnt.txt from Tmp by editing /etc/profile, so if it crashes you can poweroff and boot straight back into X.
Edit
Exclamation Just discovered an unwelcome side affect to removing the Bootcnt.txt, Rxvt will not stay open. I think it affects installing Pets as well.

Removed GNUchess links. The Chess games are fine in Gcompris.

Taskbar set to autohide.

After a screenshot and some cropping have icons for all the games, so they can go on the desktop.

Working on resizing the Dosbox window, so the kids can just click on the X on RHS, to close the app.

Got to look into Leafpad. When opened from the menu its ok, but editing a existing file its not.

I will apply all this to Technosauruses Lite version as well, and then to the Semi-skimmed (cups - no browser).

Edit
Dosbox workaround. I have fidgeted with the Dosbox.conf of both FBear and Playroom. They will open in a window (not full screen) and the mouse will not be locked into the game, so the little ones can just click on the X on RHS. I will see if there is another solution.

Yet another Edit:

Been looking at the Install scripts. Could these replace the entry "puppy Universal Installer" (the script for that is /usr/sbin/puppyinstaller. I could create a script that asks How much Ram there is, then invoke one or the other scripts depending on the answer (full install for =<128mb or Frugal for =>256mb) I know this is meant to make it easy for non techy people, just thinking out loud.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Tue 26 May 2009, 18:51    Post_subject:  

Re the x restart problem, see here

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=18654

Shame it hasnt been fixed in 4.1.2 Crying or Very sad

I was thinking more of have x automatically start back up (reset)...without rebooting, when ctrl+alt+bkspace are pressed.

Thanks for fixing those other bits and bob...the battery/bulbs/wires game is just the sort of post-apocalyptic skills they will need in the future Smile

With regard the install scripts, most teachers I know (unless they are IT teachers) dont know how much ram is in their computers! Given the short attention span of children (waiting for the computer to boot) perhaps the FULL install should just be the default...this will cover the lower ram computers too. Of course this will increase the time taken to start an application as it will have to be loaded from the hard disk...a possible "workaround"...

Ive attached a script here designed to prevent double clicking could be modified slightly, so that impatient children clicking many times on an icon to open it, would still only open one application at the time....by setting the double click timeout to say 20 seconds or so. To edit it, after unzipping, right click and select "look inside", then inside you will find a script called "apprun". See what you think.
icon-example.zip
Description 
zip

 Download 
Filename  icon-example.zip 
Filesize  31.91 KB 
Downloaded  347 Time(s) 

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4353

PostPosted: Tue 26 May 2009, 21:05    Post_subject:  

this code will give you your free RAM excluding shared video so you don't even need to ask the user
Code:
free | grep 'Mem:' | tr -s ' ' | cut -f 3 -d ' '


here is the examplefrom the init script
Code:
RAMSIZE=`free | grep 'Mem:' | tr -s ' ' | cut -f 3 -d ' '` #total physical ram (less shared video).
......
[ $RAMSIZE -gt 220000 -a "$PCOPY" = "yes" ] && COPY2RAM="yes" #256MB system. note, only checking physical ram.

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sidders

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 470
Location: Bolton, uk

PostPosted: Wed 27 May 2009, 13:38    Post_subject:  

Just installed the Full fat version on a PC to go to a nursery tomorrow (Dell Dimension 1100) and Xorg wouldnt play the game. The only option i had was Xvesa 480x320 16. I ploughed through the forum and there were a few posts from 2005. Any how i then went to the originol and it was ok. So rebuilt it manually for them. Whether i taken something away i shouldnt have or a bad burn somehow i dont know, however i will get a pile of blank discs i have 3 machines and will go through the Lite and Full versions, once the fixes are applied and make sure everything works before posting the next batch, with install scripts included. I'm taking one of the little ones camping, but will start ina couple of days.

In the mean time if anyone comes across anything else that needs seeing to, let me know.

Ta
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