Puppy 4.3 ?

[Pizzasgood]

I suggested once a month release a bug fix version, Pizzasgood suggested every 2.5 weeks or something, I think thats a bit too many releases in the year.

Sorry if you misunderstood. I did mean monthly. The part where I mentioned a couple weeks was the longest I'd personally be willing to wait after releasing a "final" version before putting together a bugfix for it with whatever bugs there are. I was completely ignoring (had forgotten, actually) the monthly thing by that point. Actually, it might fit well - release the big new version on the month in place of the normal monthly bugfix. Then half a month later (two weeks) do a bugfix. Then another two weeks for the next bugfix, which would put things back on the monthly schedule again, and ensure that big releases get some fixes in faster.



As for your concern about Git vs. testers - Git is for the developers, not testers. The testers could just ignore it if they didn't like Git. There is no reason we couldn't release normal isos for the uninitiated to test with. Alpha/beta/rc releases would still happen normally. Git would provide people with an additional option, to avoid the need to wait for alphas. But it's mainly to help simplify the development.

I am feeling like Git is getting ahead of me though. I had intended to start working on Pizzapup using Git before we use it with Puppy, so that I could have a better idea of how practical it will be and what-not, to avoid wasting people's time if it flops. But I've been swamped since February. I've had an average of 12-14 hour weekdays and 7 hour Saturdays. School is finally wrapping up for summer though, so I can get some work in soon.

Also, if we intend to replace Unleashed with Woof in the near future, then we may as well just keep doing Puppy the old way until then.

[ttuuxxx]

Also, if we intend to replace Unleashed with Woof in the near future, then we may as well just keep doing Puppy the old way until then.

It would be nice is woof had a folder called 'users-extras' where we could simply place pet's and deb's packages, then when we build a woof version it would automatically include those new programs. I've been just adding files to /woof-alpha3.1/rootfs-skeleton folder to add files, kind of a lazy way and the they have to extracted to '/',
ttuuxxx

[mcewanw]

It would be nice is woof had a folder called 'users-extras' where we could simply place pet's and deb's packages, then when we build a woof version it would automatically include those new programs.

Of course, functionally at least, that is the way tiny core linux handles addon packages in persistent tce mode (there are other alternatives similar to sfs but without using union file system at all): you just stick the dottce application (kind of like a dotpet) into /tce (or some other folder you have preset for the purpose) and, like magic, the new applications become part of your system on next boot. Removing applications is as simple as taking the associated dottce out of /tce...

A great "trick" is that /tce doesn't even need to contain the dottce applications. They can all be kept in a separate folder and /tce just populated with symlinks to the ones you want for that "flavour" of tiny core (no remastering needed). That way you can set up several /tce-type folders containing different sets of symlinks to the main dottce storage folder and use, for example, a grub menu.lst boot code to select which /tce... is to be the one used on boot. i.e. loads of flavours for different specialised purposes but no extra isos or additional bloat needed at all. It is a very powerful concept. Personally, I use the slimmest barebones system that suits my need at any particular time, so often just have a browser, a terminal, and a text editor as one of those "flavours" (but when I want to do maintenance, I pretty much always reboot into Puppy Linux v 2.17.1 because everything I'm likely to need is there for maintenance of my system is all in there and well trusted by me! :-)

I doubt I'll ever settle down to one particular system as a desktop; I get bored easily and sometimes reboot just to have a different OS: Puppy, Tiny Core, the latest slitaz, geexbox (whenever I want to watch DVDs), and very occasionally .... oops... Windows (usually W2000Pro, but very very rarely XP, and never Vista). I do have Ubuntu (slightly old version) installed too, but almost never boot up into it: these big Linux distributions just seem like slow bloat to me now, such that I hardly see the point of them any more for desktop use (different on a network with multiple users and services though). Clearly, for me at least, core (small as usefully possible) + extension applications (+ extension bling...) is the way to go, though it's important that the set of extensions are well tested and capable of producing a reliable overall desktop system for those who want that all singing and dancing at the same time - but flexibility in that sense remains the marketing key for the future, I'd say. Another way of looking at it, is that it is usually easier to add things on than to take them off once they are already built in to a complex system.

[Lobster]

At the moment our most up to date, stable and complete Puppy is 4.2 and the soon to be released 4.2.1
An ideal basis for your Puplets.

Developers, testers, tweakers and those developing woofability are keen to move towards the Woof building system for Kennel (Puppy 5)

So this is where the emphasis will be
http://puppylinux.org/wiki/development/ ... y-5-kennel

Puppy Woofability
Does your distro have it?

[ttuuxxx]

Hey Lobster are you jumping the Gun?? Why's the title Puppy 4.3 [cancelled] ???
ttuuxxx

[Lobster]

What part is unclear Ttuuxxx?

[raffy]

The title "Earth" could be appropriate for 4.3, as:

- The pains of establishing a clean package repository should be over by the time 4.3 gets started. I understand that the 4.2 team is finishing this last step. Barry's 4.1.3 is actually a way to test the repository.

- The 4.3 team will start using the GIT server and other tools as well, like a bug tracker (this will be up to the team).

- Communication will be handled in a more structured way, such as through a developer forum (or a section of the Murga forum); the top dev and his/her assistants will have moderator status. It will be useful to keep a sandbox in that forum, so that unusual ideas or comments can still find a venue.

The name "earth" should mean that a more organized and hence more fertile development environment is ready for the mainstream Puppy.

[Lobster]

- The 4.3 team will start using the GIT server and other tools as well, like a bug tracker (this will be up to the team).

Thanks Raffy,
At the moment, there is little point in integrating
the unleashed packages into any woof builds (well maybe for testing)
until the release of 4.2.1 Final

Barry is already using '46' designation for the latest woof builds
- so that may be a possibility?
- also a t2 compile of Puppy packages is what Barry intends?

- Communication will be handled in a more structured way, such as through a developer forum (or a section of the Murga forum); the top dev and his/her assistants will have moderator status. It will be useful to keep a sandbox in that forum, so that unusual ideas or comments can still find a venue.

We could use Todds forum with his agreement
but separate developer forums have only been partially successful.
Maybe Pizzasgood will come up with something for here?

The name "earth" should mean that a more organized and hence more fertile development environment is ready for the mainstream Puppy.

My understanding was that we would need a halfway house between 4.2.1 and the 5.xx series.
Presently it seems this would take the place during 5.xx beta testing
so 4.3 is not necessary?

Anyway still reports and test of 4.2 to do . . .

[Pizzasgood]

We already have the Next Puppy Development section. I didn't think to add it until 4.2 was nearly done so it wasn't exploited to it's fullest. I do agree that the coordinator at least should have moderator powers in that section, to be able to make things sticky, split out any non-belonging posts from patch-only threads, etc. I offered to give WhoDo those powers but he declined, which is understandable.

Might be worth adding subsections to that specifically for bugs, suggestions, etc.

[WhoDo]

We already have the Next Puppy Development section. I didn't think to add it until 4.2 was nearly done so it wasn't exploited to it's fullest. I do agree that the coordinator at least should have moderator powers in that section, to be able to make things sticky, split out any non-belonging posts from patch-only threads, etc. I offered to give WhoDo those powers but he declined, which is understandable.

Might be worth adding subsections to that specifically for bugs, suggestions, etc.

I don't know about coordinators having moderator privileges, PG. The temptation might be to silence dissenting voices, which is not a good thing IMHO. Dissent can be quite productive provided that it isn't carried to extremes, and for the latter case we have a number of trusted mods to take hold of the reins whenever that happens. Heaven knows, I am probably the last person you would expect to express that view, given events since the release of 4.2, but I would never want to suppress people's freedom to speak ... their freedom to repeat their views ad nauseum maybe, but certainly not their freedom speak.

I know that's not what you were suggesting but we do have to protect Puppy against potential actions by the lowest common denominator.

BTW, for those who know how and where to find it, Puppy 4.2.1 is now up at ibibilo.org ready for limited testing. It will not be released to the general public at least until tomorrow, or perhaps later, after some checking to ensure that no new bugs have been introduced.

[Pizzasgood]

It would only be for that section, so if somebody found themselves being persecuted, they could come out into the main area and make some noise, or send a "real" moderator a PM.

But I can see where it would be simpler to not leave the option for that to happen in the first place.

Looking at the auths settings in the control panel, I can grant people the ability to make stickies without giving them the ability to do all the other moderator-stuff. I don't think I can isolate the other moderator stuff (moving, splitting, editing, deleting, viewing email addies, etc.), they seem to be all or nothing.

[WhoDo]

It would only be for that section, so if somebody found themselves being persecuted, they could come out into the main area and make some noise, or send a "real" moderator a PM.

But I can see where it would be simpler to not leave the option for that to happen in the first place.

No, you're right. If it only applies to that section and the coordinator cannot control dissenting voices elsewhere in the forum, then that should be just enough control I'd say. Certainly it shouldn't be up to the mods everytime the coordinator wants a sticky thread or to split a discussion, etc.

Point taken, PG.

[ttuuxxx]

Yep I like that Idea, that way you can have some control over whats going on , I spent day lately not being focus properly due to all the stuff that has been going around here. As WhoDo knows I usually have 5 or 6 things on the go at once and makes it difficult to organize things.
ttuuxxx

[Lobster]

BTW, for those who know how and where to find it, Puppy 4.2.1 is now up at ibibilo.org ready for limited testing.

That was cryptic - a top secret release - very limited testing . . .
ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dist ... -421-test/

Nice new avatar from Pizzasgood.

[James C]

I grabbed it right after WhoDo posted, thought I'd get it before the servers got overloaded.

Posting from 4.2.1 right now, running live.....no problems yet. Wasn't really expecting any though.

[WhoDo]

I grabbed it right after WhoDo posted, thought I'd get it before the servers got overloaded.

Posting from 4.2.1 right now, running live.....no problems yet. Wasn't really expecting any though.

Check your version against the one that is up there now, James. I had intended to regress CUPS but found after I'd uploaded that the regressed version didn't work at all. I have since uploaded a second copy of 4.2.1 which uses the same CUPS version as in 4.2.

Sorry to be a nuisance, guys. It looked rock solid to me, too, until I found the CUPS issue. *sigh*

[WhoDo]

BTW, for those who know how and where to find it, Puppy 4.2.1 is now up at ibibilo.org ready for limited testing.

That was cryptic - a top secret release - very limited testing . . .
ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dist ... -421-test/

Nice new avatar from Pizzasgood.

I'm very keen to ensure that this testing pre-release doesn't find its way into the general Puppy community, much less the Linux community at large, until Barry is satisfied with it. He and I have been communicating privately on the subject, when he has had Internet access. That's why I've not even made a general announcement here, yet. This is for those following the development effort only. Can't have people rushing off and installing it in Internet cafes and newbie homes all over the place until we're ready!

BTW I love your new avatar, too, PG, but I still think the Sonic Tux I sent you some time back would be even better!

[cthisbear]

' The temptation might be to silence dissenting voices "

Yeah! You can all shut up.
Can't hear my own voice flapping over yours.

That's better.........It's all about me.

Chris.

[ttuuxxx]

hey WhoDo I've been working on the latest stable cups and along the way figured out how to lower the resources, just wondering, I could compile the beta again with it, I might take 1, or 3 tries but I figure I could get it going, what do you say, If we have testers, I have the time?
ttuuxxx

[WhoDo]

hey WhoDo I've been working on the latest stable cups and along the way figured out how to lower the resources, just wondering, I could compile the beta again with it, I might take 1, or 3 tries but I figure I could get it going, what do you say, If we have testers, I have the time?

Tempting, ttuuxxx, but just a bit too risky for my taste right at the moment. I'm trying to avoid extending the release of 4.2.1 any further than necessary because I want to lay down the burden sooner rather than later. Recent events have taken all of the enthusiasm right out of me and I just want to move on. Who knows, I might even get my mojo back after a period of rest and recuperation. It takes me a bit longer to recharge than a young whipper snapper like yourself though.

Thanks for the offer, mate.