Project Coordinator Threatened ....

[aragon]

Don't step aside WhoDo.

You've mastered some other times with 'less' fun, so please this one too.

Lobster might have a mantra to resolve this little crisis...

aragon

[paulh177]

ecomoney should become the second known person to be banned along with his duplicate ids and the ip range of his urban zone if possible.

what an extraordinary statement.

we need to take the heat out of this thread pretty quick or we risk a split and polarised community, with sides being taken and bad feeling all over the place.
None of which would help the development of Puppy or how it is seen by the larger Linux community and the regular end user.

i usually keep my views on puppy-politics to myself but the tone of this thread really concerns me

[bugman]

NO

[technosaurus]

I think it would be a good idea for Warren to pass the baton to someone of his own choosing (at least every other minor release) and let the lead rotate. This would allow him some rest and also get a different perspective each time, since each alternate lead would make more fixes/upgrades/improvements in his/her area of expertise. We should try to get a Google summer of code project for our students out there (Pizzasgood, MU? others...). and allow some of the other major contributors to have a hack or two at it during the rest of the year.... therefore I vote for neither, maybe just step aside from time to time.

[Patriot]

Hmmm ...

Just my thoughts here ...

1. Whodo should be given fair chance to follow this through right to the end. I see no major reason to do otherwise.

2. Is ecomoney attempting a coup d'etat on puppyland against our current "Benevolent Dictator" ?

3. I understand ecomoney's arguments for bugfixes but I disagree with his methods. He has several other options. Yet, he chooses to pursue this path. It is increasingly looking to be like a personal conquest.

4. This persistence with the abiword bug as a big huge major issue is hilarious, at least to me. Its not life threatening in any way. Abiword is a tool, no more than that and if it broke, then many other options still exists. As far as I know, no abiword developer has come aboard puppyland to explain the issue and we have no maintainer for abiword (yes, we have packagers. anyone can do that). Anyone wants the position ?

5. Abiword bug has been identified and with a fix offered. That's good enough for now. Perhaps a better way to let the intended user know of the fix should be given some thought.

6. At least one derivative with bugfixes has appeared. If that's not good enough then build one to suit one's own needs.

7. I believe some sort of a service pack could be worked out while waiting for the next build/release version. Perhaps someone is willing to pick this one up ?

8. Can ecomoney if and as the coordinator guarantee that the next version will be free of any bugs ?

9. All this barking about bugs is fine if it's being done constructively. Everyone's a critic. Unfortunately, many does not know how to do it constructively.

10. I've already cast my vote. Can we move along now ?


Rgds

[tronkel]

Puppy 4.2 managed to reach no 2 on Distrowatch for a while, no mean feat - coming in just under Ubuntu as the top dog. The target audience must therefore have been highly satisfied with it - despite the odd glitch here and there.

So why then would WhoDo have to resign? I voted no on that one for sure.

Bug-fixing a distro takes time and patience. WhoDo as well as other developers often work under time constraints - that's just life.

A bug-fixed 4.2 will appear just as soon as people find the time to fix it. It took Debian 2 years to fix Lenny (and it's not even right yet, but it's good enough to deploy).

Kudos to ttuuxxx as well for supporting Puppy 4.2 I reckon he did a great job there. Hope he gets sorted out with the base for Puppy 5.

Ecomoney? It's clear that he is trying to propel 4.2 in such a direction that it meets his needs for the CyberCafe etc.

If the current 4.2 appears not to fulfill his requirements at the moment in this respect, he has plenty of other choices that might be considered - naming no names here!

Could it be though, that in reality Puppy is in fact the best candidate for the job here - bugs and all? Sure looks like it. As you can also observe, Puppy is heading straight for the no 1 spot. 4.2 was a step towards this.

Ban Ecomoney from the forum? - no.

[big_bass]

Hey WhoDo

nobody voted for you to be the coordinator
BarryK asked if you would and if I remember correctly

*which I do have a good memory*
you said yes

end of discussion
.........................................................................................................

Do I agree with Barryk's request and your answer?

yes

end of my opinion

-----------------------------------------------------
echomoney

you made a business decision to use puppy whatever version
to please your clients?

Do you offer full localization language support?
Do you offer free tech support?
Do you offer multi users?

if you haven't thought this through yet
the demands you have now will only
grow


maybe whoever selected you to run your business
should reconsider their choice


big_bass

[SirDuncan]

There is no doubt that the Abiword fix should be fixed. However I don't see any reason to toss out the coordinator over one bug.

Perhaps a note could be put on the web page explaining how to fix the bug, until a corrected version can be uploaded.

Good idea. Done. I don't know how to put it on the main page, but it is on the download page at puppylinux.org. If there was an actual fix posted (instead of just downgrading), someone let me know and I'll change it.

ecomoney should become the second known person to be banned along with his duplicate ids and the ip range of his urban zone if possible.

That is entirely unnecessary. Ecomoney is a valuable member of the community with a lot of end-user experience It would be unwise to excommunicate him over a minor difference of opinion and some misunderstandings. If we started doing that, most of us would end up out of the community eventually.

[quote="technosaurus"We should try to get a Google summer of code project for our students out there (Pizzasgood, MU? others...).[/quote]
Yes! I would totally sign up for that. The problem is that we would need someone to set it up.

2. Is ecomoney attempting a coup d'etat on puppyland against our current "Benevolent Dictator" ?

Our Benevolent Dictator was and still is Barry, regardless of his dislike for that position. If he says something, that's almost assuredly the way the community will move. Warren current position seems to me to be more that of Steward. As for the coup d'etat, I do not believe that was really Ecomoney's intent (if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me). Although I can see how it might look that way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't been really following the Abiword problem. I stopped using Abiword after it butchered my physics technical report last quarter (well, technically I guess Word 2007 butchered it when my TA went to grade it). OOo is a lot slower to load, but it seems more compatible with Word. Before anyone asks why I didn't turn in a PDF, they needed to run an anti-plagiarism program on it that needed it in .doc or .docx format.

Anyway, as for whether Warren should step down, I say no. He did a pretty darn good job for the community's first release. I think that most of the friction here is because of the method of communication between Warren and Ecomoney. If they had been meeting face to face, I think Ecomoney would not have come off quite as nasty as he sounded. Of course, once the misunderstanding starts, it gets out of control rather quickly. A similar thing happened to Ttuuxxx if I recall correctly.

I would say more on the subject, but I have a class starting in ~5 minutes.

[MU]

We should try to get a Google summer of code project for our students out there (Pizzasgood, MU?.

I'm not a student, but jobless. At moment I just take 2 courses Java/C#, that enhance my chances to find a job again.
I almost had one - but the main client of the company was a bank , so at moment, all projects stopped.
I have a meeting in another company on tuesday.

So despite being jobless, I can not reliably plan on projects, that would take several "fulltime weeks".

Concerning Whodo:
I was requested, if I would be available to play a leading role for Puppy 4.2.
I had to reject, because of the mentioned time issue.
At moment, I'm often so tired in the afternoon, that I just can provide some basic fixes to Newyearspup (NYP), but can not solve all bugs, or add all language patches.
So since weeks, NYP is in a "Release Candidate" status.

Saying this, I must emphasize my highest respect for Whodo, who managed to coordinate all the different project teams of Puppy 4.2, like the language team, and all others.
This is an enormous job he does.

Ecomoney sometimes sounds a bit rude, but I have no problem with it, as I worked commercially for a year on Muppy. So I know the pressure related to that.
This is, because he has the pressure, to maintain a "product".
Puppy itself is not a "product" though, so the organization follows some different rules.
Not even a month has passed since the release yet - so we are certainly not yet retarded concerning bugfixes.
Creating a bugfixed version of a comunity system will take a while. If you start uploading a Puppy 4.2.1, where only some small issues are fixed, people will say: "oh god, how can you release only so few fixes!".

Simply give Whodo the time required for a proper bugfix release so that you will not be disappointed then.

Mark

[DaveS]

Ping MU. Good luck with the job hunt man............. tough times.

[Lobster]

Lobster might have a mantra to resolve this little crisis...

Mantra powered Puplet
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka= ... xineVision

there is an OZ mantra
AVA BEER MATE
or in Puppy terms 'Dog biscuits all around'

Let me say again:

Viz 2.15CE was supervised by Warren and was released
as an 'official' numbered Puppy
4.2 was supervised and with a lot of work is with us
Well done everyone who participated

Looking froward to 4.2.1 - Warren is still in charge because he can and does the job.
Thanks WhoDo.

Are there no bugs to test and report for 4.2.1?
For every person who wishes things rushed, there are people saying, 'take your time'.

Remember there are also vested interests who will find ways of producing discord in the Linux community.

I agree with MU

Simply give Whodo the time required for a proper bugfix release so that you will not be disappointed then.

Stay Frisky

[gerry]

@Tronkel- I understood that the Distrowatch ranking is based on the number of people READING ABOUT a particular distro, not how many download/install/use it. So Puppy being number two only means that a lot of people decided to have a look and read all about it.

Gerry

[Aitch]

Oh Dear

Dirty laundry again

To have such a good distro & such a poor human rapport between fellow forum members, regardless of their role, is IMHO just sad, as it goes public & has an effect for EVERY linux distro, not just Puppy

We should be both PROUD & VIGILANT!!

There's nothing wrong with saying XXX is broke, & publishing a bugfix ASAP

There is however, something wrong with making things/taking things personally

Can this thread be modified to off public focus i.e. hidden? - is there a way?

I've worked in the music industry with 'stars'

On stage they are heroes, offstage they can be a-holes

But the public remember the hero

So please lets keep this offstage drama just that

And keep everyone's, especially Puppy's reputation clean

Getting to number 2 @ Distrowatch can be achieved by bad press too, you know!

Thanks to both WhoDo & Rob - I value you both!

but for different reasons & don't see you 'in competition'

Whodo

I haven't voted because I don't think the question arises

You were asked by Barry & until that changes....roll with it


Aitch

[tronkel]

gerry wrote:

@Tronkel- I understood that the Distrowatch ranking is based on the number of people READING ABOUT a particular distro, not how many download/install/use it

That is indeed true.

But how do the readers get to a download link for Puppy? Very often they would link to it via some web review page that had something positive to say about Puppy. Before they actually download the ISO though, further research might then take them to Distrowatch where they read all about it and in doing so increment Puppy's rating by one point.

The point I was trying to make was, that if Warren had made such a fundamentally disastrous job of 4.2 as Ecomoney asserts, then there is no way the click-throughs would have been capable of elevating Puppy to No 2 ranking, either directly or indirectly.

[ecomoney]

Hi Everyone, Im just stopping in on a friends laptop on the way to my next job. Ive had a good read, but dont have the time to reply to them all now. Ive got good answers prepared for all of them though!


One quick point for now...
Maybe the point of this thread would be for Whodo to discover that community does want you to co-ordinate the releases, and re-releases when necessary. Maybe thats what I do, and thats why I shouldnt have my i.p banned.

[Béèm]

I see no reason for WhoDo to step down, unless he feels himself that it harms his health.
There is no reason to get sick because of a project.
So, take the right decision.

[01micko]

Hmmmmmm....mmmm...m

The voting isn't working for me. Is Kevin Rudd planning to implement this voting system for federal elections? (due soon I'd say )

If it was working, I would sign up with another bodgy 24 emails and vote yes for each. Warren you're gone. Sorry.

Mick I'm not sure with what your saying? Do you support Warren or want to see him step down? What I take from what you said is that if you could sign up on the forum with 24 fake names you would vote for him to step down? And what have ecomoney replace him? You wouldn't be saying that? would you?
ttuuxxx

Was a joke of course ttuuxxx . I think WhoDo would have got it. If WhoDo sent us into battle, I'd go! OTOH, if Rudd did, I'd run!

[Pizzasgood]

@Aitch: Love the attachment. Roll on.


I for one am most certainly not banning Ecomoney. So there has been some argument. That's life. This isn't some fluffy sugary feel-good cuddle-party forum. Better to have arguments than to blindly follow the leader. Arguments are inevitable when you get a bunch of smart people together. Different minds view things from different angles and have different priorities and definitions.


I vote for WhoDo to stay in charge for the time being. He's done a great job. Much better than I could have done, even if I had the time. I do agree that over the long run, it should rotate, but that's long run. A person should have time to get a feel for what they're doing and do a good job.


When I get stressed, I take a leaf from Dune's litany against fear, and simply let the stress pass over me and through me, leaving nothing behind but myself.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Too bad that doesn't work to eliminate homework and paperwork too.

Another good source of stress relief is http://icanhascheezeburger.com/, though that one can make things worse if the stress is related to lack of time, and the issue demanding the time has not yet been resolved...

[pa_mcclamrock]

Please don't step down as co-ordinator. Please do give a bit earlier and more prominent advance notice of deadlines next time.

As for the proposed (or demanded) bugfix release, if you had to do a whole new release every time a few bugs were found, there would probably be no end of releases and release-related headaches. It's better, on balance (IMHO), that users who actually need particular post-release bugfixes should get ample assistance in finding them. I've fixed at least three reported bugs (or two bugs and one lack of a needed feature) in RemaX since Puppy 4.2 Final came out, and I'm pretty sure that three new releases (or even one) would not have been either necessary or desirable to get this done!

[01micko]

Hello All

WhoDo did (and is still doing ) a fantastic job of coodinating 4.2. Let us not forget that it is more than just getting a bunch of packages together and building an iso from unleashed. There is promotion to coordinate, documentation, numerous other details. Let's not forget WhoDo was crook for a number of weeks but battled on regardless.

As far as I'm concerned ecomoney's input is invaluable, as is panzerpuppy's and ... well... every puppy user's.

May I make a suggestion. Why don't one of us throw our hat into the ring and coordinate 4.2X CE? This would leave WhoDo free to bugfix 4.2 and coordinate 4.X or 5. In previous CE development, the Benevolent Dictator was not particularly involved directly, moreso he had an advisory role. If people like this idea, should we ask for noms and have a vote?

Cheers

Mick