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 Forum index » House Training » Bugs ( Submit bugs )
Abiword problem in 4.2
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 07:12    Post subject:  

So is the word processor not going to be fixed?

Like I say, it is probably the most important tool for the people I work with...what about the people that cant run Openoffice?

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 07:26    Post subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
So is the word processor not going to be fixed?

Like I say, it is probably the most important tool for the people I work with...what about the people that cant run Openoffice?

I didn't say that. I meant that I wasn't going to prolong the sometimes bitter debate and "blame game". I cannot recall 4.2 to fix a bug in Abiword (not in Puppy), and I'm not going to repackage 2 releases and upload 8 isos for a bug that has not 1 but at least 3 workarounds. If one of the devs works out what library is causing the problem, I'll happily add the solution to the Patches and Updates thread.

I haven't yet seen a compelling reason for a point1 "bug fix" release. So far every problem has been repairable with one of the patches posted in the Patches and Updates thread. I'm sure this one will be too, in time. If you need them all in one neat package, RemaX is your answer.

In the meantime there is much left to be done for this release, including providing Pizzasgood and Caneri with the necessary stuff for the new Git development repository. I'd rather see the effort required go into making that all it can be for the next standard release of Puppy.

BTW, have you thought about K-Office? It's older, and doesn't support .docx at all, but it's way smaller than OOO, pretty darn stable and can be made to look very much like Word. Puppy 4.2 supports up to 20-odd sfs files, so one more won't hurt, will it?

Hope that clarifies my position

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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Vienna Austria

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 07:34    Post subject:  

Ecomoney wrote concerning ttuuxxx:

Quote:
ignore requests to produce themes for disabled people


I have just as much concern for disabled people as yourself Ecomoney, but consider this - Ttuuxxx does not take his remit on Puppy development from you Ecomoney.

The remit for developers of Puppy 4.2 was to produce an updated version of Puppy that is in line with the design parameters for a normal basic Puppy. What are these design parameters?
1. Small
2. Fast
3. Usable for most of the user base.
4. Jam-packed with useful software.

No mention of any specialised disabled facilities. That can come in the form of an add-on if necessary.

No OS can be all things to all people, even disabled people.
WhoDo and Ttuuxxx have done an unbelievably good job in implementing this latest version of Puppy. MS Windows has come a cropper on this very issue of being all things to all people. If you need specialised stuff for disabled, you should chip in with some help on this especially since you have learned so much from your previous sojourn at University

I admit that testing and quality control in Puppy cannot compete with the likes of Debian say, but that's just the way it is. The trade-off here is that the the little Puppy has even more tricks in its head than Debian has.

Puppy does not exist just to be tailor-made to your requirements Economy. If it doesn't suit you, you have other alternatives open to you.

Quote:
Ttuuxxx
there would have been no 4.2 without your sterling efforts, so please do not take these criticisms to heart. Same for WhoDo
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jakfish

Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 07:42    Post subject:  

It's a strange paradox in the computer programming world that those who work for free, work the hardest of all.

On top of their countless hours of developing and testing, I feel very badly seeing them feeling so besieged. I hold them in only the highest esteem, and any problem that comes out of any release is my problem, not theirs. If it's solved, great--but I'm not owed its solution.

Jake
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techtype

Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 07:43    Post subject:  

Ecomoney wrote: bla bla bla

Those that can do, those that can't -- criticize (in a rude and inappropriate manner)

Post your facts and leave it at that. You can start by going back and editing your posts.
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6458
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 07:50    Post subject:  

For the record, the old Abiword is NOT a "just-works package"; at least in Puppy 4.x, and by the criteria expressed here.
It is pretty buggy, and I find it unusable simply because it usually doesn't display half the text in a document. I can usually see it when I select it, but that often crashes Abiword. This could be specific to Microsoft documents, or certain common fonts - I don't know Sad
I don't remember it being like this in Puppy 2.x, but then I never used it much. It is a pity, because if Abiword wasn't so buggy in Puppy it would be my WP of choice... as it is I use OOo.
I guess I could always use it in Wine, but that seems wrong Smile

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 08:16    Post subject:  

Here's Barry's version of Abiword 2.6.3 with 2.6.6 extensions and Templates, with spellcheck turned on
http://www.puppylinux.asia/tpp/ttuuxxx/puppy420/release/programs/abiword-2.6.3-updated.pet
Just install it and use it, Its the same as using 2.6.6 due to the fact it can now read/write .docx extensions.
case solved.
ttuuxxx

Ps its also in Puppies 4.2-v1
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=290908#290908

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 08:27    Post subject:  

Puppy Mission Statement (by BarryK)

Quote:

1. Puppy will easily install to USB, Zip or hard drive media
2. Booting from CD, Puppy will load totally into RAM so that the CD drive is then free for other purposes
3. Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
4. Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast
5. Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use
6. Puppy will just work, no hassles
7. Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs


Five and six still need some work in that case, though number three has come on in leaps and bounds in the latest release.

Just to clarify, I asked for one of the themes to be higher contrast for those with impaired vision...a fairly common "disability" (ok I was stretching the point here), but it would have been nice for puppy to make at least a nod in this direction (considering it had quite a few themes already between jwm, icewm and gtk)

Personally, I dont use a word processor that much...but I know a lot of other people do. I can just about fix it, but Ive been using it nearly four years now. Most of what I learnt at Uni was theoretical, making sure that end users are properly consulted to their exact requirements, and a methodical approach to development and testing was implemented. Icewm wasnt around at the time (1996) but your absolutely right there is no reason I cant make a high contrast theme now, and I will.

I agree Whodo has done a very good job, and doing the best job always involves looking back at what could be done better.

Jack...if you think were beleaguered...you should see some of the places I work.

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 08:36    Post subject:  

Thank you for this at least Ttuxxx, tested with sample documents from here

http://openxmldeveloper.org/articles/SampleDocsAugust2007.aspx

At risk of sounding pedantic...would you also include a mime-type so .docx opens automatically with abiword when clicked on. Currently they open with xarchive.

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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Vienna Austria

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 08:55    Post subject:  

jakfish wrote:

Quote:
It's a strange paradox in the computer programming world that those who work for free, work the hardest of all.


Yes indeed, the open-source world is a paradox - one I have never really understood. Entirely different animal from the normal model of producer/consumer. Seems to work very well though in practice.

It works most of the time even for people who have specialist needs - even for Ecomoney.

In order to produce the goods here, some contributors donate a lot of time and probably health status in order to produce the stuff.

Please make allowance for this. This applies to everyone here - not just to Ecomoney - who I accept is just trying to do his best for his end-users as well.

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Last edited by tronkel on Thu 02 Apr 2009, 09:57; edited 1 time in total
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10843
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 08:56    Post subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
Thank you for this at least Ttuxxx, tested with sample documents from here

http://openxmldeveloper.org/articles/SampleDocsAugust2007.aspx

At risk of sounding pedantic...would you also include a mime-type so .docx opens automatically with abiword when clicked on. Currently they open with xarchive.


Man your never happy, Open abiword and click file/open it works.
You can't set a mime to it yet, xarchiver looks at it as a .zip file, you would have to use the zip mime and have it open abiword, now thats a mess, I'll contact the developer since he's a nice guy and ask him how to update xarchiver.

A clever way you can do with .docx files is extract them in a folder using xarchiver, then right click open with 'defaultbrowser' /root/word/document.xml
then click in seamonkey save as html
then open the html file with seamonkey and boom you viewing a docx file in seamonkey perfectly, without abiword/OO etc, just seamonkey.
ttuuxxx

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2009, 09:30    Post subject:  

Quote:
It works most of the time even for people who have specialist needs - even for Ecomoney


Most of my clients think a mime-type is a subdivision of theatre with no words. They just want to click on it and it work, and let them get on with battling housing corporations/banks/lawyers without having to pay £235 for M$ office....a lot of people I know are in that situation at the moment. Letter writing is far from specialist computer use....its a daily necessity for many.

Thank you for clarifying about Mime types Ttuxxx...perhaps a more flexible system of assigning programs to files will be developed soon. Files matter more than programs to end-users. For now its just great to have docx support somehow and be able to give "linux newbs" some way of accessing modern literacy cheaply.

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evilmrb

Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr 2009, 03:20    Post subject: Oh dear!!
Subject description: Why I don't like posting in forums
 

I can't begin to say how much it saddens me to see my humble bug report degenerate into a slanging match simply because parties cannot see one another's point of view.
I am a Linux dabbler so I don't know much technical stuff. Trying to rebuild another version of Puppy myself would be a non-no. For me at least the Abiword issue would mean I couldn't / wouldn't use it. I think Puppy is an absolutely fantastic piece of software and I have done since I first tried it. Every time I get a new version I marvel at just how much it does, especially for its size. If anyone from Microsoft is reading this - watch and learn!!!
I can see the points on both sides and really there is no right or wrong here. It's abundantly clear that the developers work very hard to produce a great product and it's frustrating for users when a key bit doesn't work as well as it might. I learn about new releases from Distrowatch.com so I wouldn't know when releases were available for testing but I would be willing to help in that area from a user's perspective.
Please try to bear in mind that we are all on the same side really.
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cindy


Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Scunthorpe, Great Britain

PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr 2009, 04:30    Post subject: Abiword problem in 4.2
Subject description: Whodo
 

Now I have been criticized before and I have broad shoulders so do not mind. I am disgusted that anyone would have contempt for a person who does such a good job for people. Rob works so hard for puppy linux and does not make money at it. His prime concern is helping us ordinary people.
I am the person that he brought the young person to so she could print a letter. Have you NEVER been in trouble whodo ????
I have not made a comment on this forum for a long time because there are a few of you out there who seem to have no heart. More like a machine that just see figures and whatever it is that makes you tick. I have as an elderly lady enjoyed using puppy linux and in my SMALL way tried to promote it.
So PLEASE do not tell me I have not followed the correct protocol I am too old to listen, just fix what is wrong so that us ordinary people can use your system PLEASE.
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr 2009, 05:23    Post subject: Re: Abiword problem in 4.2
Subject description: Whodo
 

cindy wrote:
Have you NEVER been in trouble whodo ????

Not really, not the way you mean, but I certainly have done my share of helping those who were! I don't wear that like a badge of honour and demand people respect what I do. I just do it when it needs doing! That's how I found Puppy in the first place ... rebuilding PC's to give away to those who really needed them and couldn't afford to pay. I understand Rob's passion for the people he helps. I feel the same way, but that passion needs to be mixed with a little respect and humility when things aren't exactly as expected.

If you and others belittled Rob's efforts, how long do you think he'd keep doing what he does for you?

I don't think Rob should put his avocation ahead of the rights and feelings of others, regardless of how laudible his objectives may be. I applaud you defending someone who has helped you and people you know. That's all I was doing when I reacted to Rob's unwarranted criticism. Heck, ttuuxxx had just got through finding a workaround to help out while he looked more deeply at the underlying problem and what did he get for the effort? "That's nowhere near good enough"! Phooey to that!

I get really annoyed when people cannot see beyond their own narrow viewpoint.

cindy wrote:
So PLEASE do not tell me I have not followed the correct protocol I am too old to listen, just fix what is wrong so that us ordinary people can use your system PLEASE.

Have you ever heard the expression "looking a gift horse in the mouth"? I'm sure you have. It means disrespecting the gift and the giver by looking for faults in the gift or rejecting the gift because it isn't perfect! Puppy is a GIFT. You paid exactly ZERO for it! Telling those who have laboured so long to "just fix what is wrong so us ordinary people can use your system" is NOT mitigated by appending the word PLEASE as though it were a demand.

Sometimes I wonder why volunteers bother when you get the recipients of their labours looking that particular gift horse in the mouth and declaring the gift flawed! It's FREE for crying out loud! At least you could ask nicely if you'd like things organised a little differently. *sheesh*

Cindy I applaud your defense of your friend and helper. I also applaud your friend and helper for what he does. Please don't forget that it was people like ttuuxxx, and me, who made what Rob does possible in the first place, through our hard work with this distribution! I think we've earned just a modicum of respect for that too, don't you?

@evilmrb - I agree and I sincerely hope the mods look at locking this thread and giving the side issues a chance to crawl away and die.

Your report was properly made. The problem was recognised and has been fixed (see ttuuxxx's last post and the Patches & Updates thread for 4.2), at least to the point where it shouldn't be a problem any more in this release. Fin!

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