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Puppy 4.2 Beginners Instructional Video
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7794
Location: qld

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 05:49    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx,

I understand your point of view. It is the backbone of opensource.

However, I can't see the harm in a little 'plug'. As long as zigbert, ttuuxxx, HairyWill, WhoDo...bal bla all get credited with equal ranking as Ecomoney Systems then it's fine by me.

Puppy has Flash included. Of course it has to be credited, and linked to, for it to be legal to include. Being a branch of Adobe nowdays, that kind of makes us supporters of Adobe.

For the value that this will give puppy, IMO, a small plug is ok.

Cheers

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 05:56    Post subject:  

ecomoney wrote:

I would also like to ask for suggestions for some kind of music for the video intro and outro titles.


Intro:

"How much is that doggy in the window(s)"....

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 06:17    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
ttuuxxx,

I understand your point of view. It is the backbone of opensource.

However, I can't see the harm in a little 'plug'. As long as zigbert, ttuuxxx, HairyWill, WhoDo...bal bla all get credited with equal ranking as Ecomoney Systems then it's fine by me.

Puppy has Flash included. Of course it has to be credited, and linked to, for it to be legal to include. Being a branch of Adobe nowdays, that kind of makes us supporters of Adobe.

For the value that this will give puppy, IMO, a small plug is ok.

Cheers

Yes but I wouldn't mind if puppy turns its back on flash officially and only offer it in the forums, usually everyone updates it anyways, it would save around 1.2MB compressed off the distro, and When we release puppy we could say we no long officially support adobe flash due to the fact it has been getting more and more unstable with every release and adobe's dependencies do not cater for pc's with Linux operating systems more than a year old. Thats the whole reason why the latest flash is crap on puppy, other than that one version I managed to scrounge up not at adobe, but from another location unknown, lol Trade secrets Smile
ttuuxxx

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 07:14    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
... but from another location unknown, lol Trade secrets Smile
ttuuxxx


yes well, ummm.. legality?

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 07:27    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:
... but from another location unknown, lol Trade secrets Smile
ttuuxxx


yes well, ummm.. legality?


Of course it was legal, I wouldn't ever promote anything but, well unless its windows related Wink lol
ttuuxxx

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01micko


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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 07:53    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
01micko wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:
... but from another location unknown, lol Trade secrets Smile
ttuuxxx


yes well, ummm.. legality?


Of course it was legal, I wouldn't ever promote anything but, well unless its windows related Wink lol
ttuuxxx


Well " heads up"

Anyways off topic, what about the level plug?

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 08:06    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:
01micko wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:
... but from another location unknown, lol Trade secrets Smile
ttuuxxx


yes well, ummm.. legality?


Of course it was legal, I wouldn't ever promote anything but, well unless its windows related Wink lol
ttuuxxx


Well " heads up"

Anyways off topic, what about the level plug?


I'll go half way,
voice - ecomoney
no systems limited etc,
just his user name, because thats what his role in this video is, a puppy linux user. His father on the other hand has a video business, If he wants to have his companies name at the end, the same size as rest of the text with no company images, thats fine with me, we are all equals. I still don't even know why his father would even want that, its not like someone from China, Australia etc is going to say, hey come video my computer over seas.
ttuuxxx

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 08:37    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:

I'll go half way,
voice - ecomoney
no systems limited etc,
just his user name, because thats what his role in this video is, a puppy linux user. His father on the other hand has a video business, If he wants to have his companies name at the end, the same size as rest of the text with no company images, thats fine with me, we are all equals.
ttuuxxx


Agreed?

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 08:48    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:

I'll go half way,
voice - ecomoney
no systems limited etc,
just his user name, because thats what his role in this video is, a puppy linux user. His father on the other hand has a video business, If he wants to have his companies name at the end, the same size as rest of the text with no company images, thats fine with me, we are all equals.
ttuuxxx


Agreed?


I Agree with how its stated above, Its really up to WhoDo in the end, But its always best getting everyone in a team to agree on issues like these.
ttuuxxx

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http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7794
Location: qld

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 08:58    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
01micko wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:

I'll go half way,
voice - ecomoney
no systems limited etc,
just his user name, because thats what his role in this video is, a puppy linux user. His father on the other hand has a video business, If he wants to have his companies name at the end, the same size as rest of the text with no company images, thats fine with me, we are all equals.
ttuuxxx


Agreed?


I Agree with how its stated above, Its really up to WhoDo in the end, But its always best getting everyone in a team to agree on issues like these.
ttuuxxx

Fair's fair, fair enough

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 13:45    Post subject:  

Hi Ttuxxx

Far from being offended by your comments, i am actually glad you brought them up, and Im also glad you brought up your concerns now. I would hate to have made the video and it be rejected by the puppy community for being too "corporate". I thought the issue of me having some company structure to my work would come up eventually, so this is as good a time as ever to explain.

Let me explain a little about the huge corporation that is (not) Ecomoney Systems Ltd. Ive just (yesterday) filed our accounts, which had more circles on it than the wheatfields of Western Europe, and less digits than the the worlds entire whale population. Ive actually had to send it in three times already because its hard to work to get them to believe someone would bother running a company, with all the hassles that involved, for nothing.

Why do I bother running a company if it makes me no money? The answer is simple, it opens doors in the busimess world and gets things done, which is my main concern. It means that I can legally take away computer waste from schools and colleges while complying with government regulation, for nothing, while the company down the road has to charge £3 an item for disposal. The reason I do it for nothing is because I can sell them for a nominal fee (around £40) to families that would otherwise not be able to afford them. I use this money to keep petrol in my £100 car, pay for internet access, web hosting and software mirrors, and mobile phone top-up so I can keep the whole thing going.

The charities I deal with usually get them for free, or I ask them for around £5 to cover delivery. Another reason I run a company is because it keeps my personal finances separate from my work, and this avoids all kinds of paperwork. I dont draw any wage or a salary from the business, and neither does our secretary, Sylvi-Maree Westlake (sylvi on the forum) or our "Chief Technical officer" (he chose that name) who deals with our more technical difficulties. We havnt made a profit...ever, and more often than not I have to use my own money to keep things going.

Ecomoney Systems Ltd was registered at the end of 2004 as a Social Enterprise through a government scheme. The reason our government (what country are you from Ttuxx?) is promoting social enterprise is because it doesnt have the money to invest in social services, and it thinks that by getting altruistically minded people to run companies where all of their profit has to be re-invested back into our business aims is a way of getting those public services for free (probably so it can save the taxpayers money to bail out their masters at the banks instead).

We were originally commissioned to create solutions for the web based management of community currency systems (a citizens operated currency), We developed a package based on phpbb, which we released for free. It was the first such program of its kind in the world. That concept has been copied and improved all over the web and a huge number of sites now exist. With the depression, they are going to get ever more popular. I havnt seen a penny (of national currency) personally for this. Having fulfilled our origional remit, I realised that these systems were pointless unless people had a secure, cheap, easy, non-corporate controlled and reliable way of accessing them, and the rest of the mind blowingly informative material that the only free information network in the world contains, This is why I now work on the puppy linux project full-time...for the last four years for free. Im honoured and excited to have the opportunity to do this film.

Quote:
You haven't put anything into 4.2 from what I've seen, and I don't agree that you would deserve such a spotlight for making such a small tiny donation.


Puppy development is an ongoing process, Each version getting better and better. What makes it (and all open source software) is the gathering up of feedback from the user base to the developer base. Its no good developers just developing what they personally want. Puppy linux, from its mission statement, is a project aimed at getting people to switch to linux ("linux newbs") from other operating systems. The only way most are going to do this is if it benefits them personally to do so...such is human nature.

Over the years since I started using puppy linux, I have introduced hundreds of people to it. That is personally stood over them while they have tried linux for the first time. This is either through supporting them in their homes charities and businesses, or at the cybercafe where I used to work. The things I have learnt I have fed back thorugh the forum so that faults can be rectified and puppy linux can become more useable and hassle free, so more people can move away from Windows.

Some notable examples are the problem with pup_save.2fs files filling up causing desktop icons to disappear with no warning, and xwindows not showing up after a power failure/lockup, leaving a black screen full of code (implemented in version 3 and the last 2.15ce community edition). All of these are show stoppers to new linux users, and make them very likely to give up on it, return to microsoft, and continue criticism to others that linux is just too complex for most computer users. All these are faults that are now fixed. Another thing I have been banging on about for years is that puppy looks primitive, grey and uninteresting out of the box. This is something I am over the moon about being resolved in 4.2, thanks to your own coding.

Ive also contributed on the forum many of the problems that my users have faced, and supplied fixes in them, liasing between the developers in their language, and writing solutions for newbs in their language.

During the last four years, Ive seen puppy linux go from 20th place on distrowatch, to seventh or eighth, contributing to linux overall destop penetration that has gone from about 0.2% to 2 or three percent this year, and set to double or triple over the coming year, and for all the years after that. Im an in absolutely no way saying that this was due to me only, or even that my contribution was particularly significant compared to the great many others involved in open source or puppy linux in particular, and at the same time I wouldnt say that my contribution to the latest puppy 4.2, and its previous foundations isnt "anything".

I want to do this video because I think it will be a great help to new users, and excellent way to promote puppy, and because I have the experience in demonstrating puppy linux to new users to do it effectively. Im also lucky enough by chance of birth to have free access to a professional video production company who specialise in instructional videos of technical processes.

All I ask is that, along with the names of the many developers/project managers who have contributed to this release, the name of the project that I run (at cost to myself), that I am known as locally be mentioned for a second in the end credits, the name of the person who composed the music for the video and the name of my fathers company who is also giving up his time for free. I wish to use the "ltd" part because I think it will give new users a better impression that puppy linux is a serious project (opening doors) and that is the name under which I (Robert Simpson) undertake all of my puppy linux related projects. This would be no more intrusive to the purpose of the video than putting the name and contact details of the developer in the Help>About menu in an application would be intrusive to the purpose of that application.

This is just that, a request. If my name is not mentioned at all I am still willing to produce the video. Especially if mentioning my projects name would cause one of the best current contributors to puppy linux to "walk". Smile

P.s, While totally sharing your views about flash, I must disagree with your views about including it. When we have as much market penetration (98%) as adobe, but then we will have the leverage required, but until then we must find the best solution to the its problems and compromise. Would love to hear about this "trade secret" you have Ttuxxx.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4335

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 23:24    Post subject:  

http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-tips-every-geek-should-know

see #19 for how to take a screenshot in a terminal

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4762
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar 2009, 23:39    Post subject: caption  

Based on what ecomoney just discussed, perhaps it would be appropriate to put in the video "Directed by Robert ... of Ecomoney Systems Ltd. Ecomoney supports new currency virtual communities that are in turn made possible by Puppy Linux. Ecomoney is registered as a social enterprise in the UK".

Robert, I browsed the page here, but I could not clearly classify Ecomoney Systems. If it was a trust, then is it correct to say that some community ownership would be one of its features?

I asked because it would be fun to continue that caption above with ".. and co-owned by the Puppy Linux community".

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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar 2009, 00:14    Post subject:  

ecomoney :

Do what you like.

I wrote more but I decided that the 10 second rule should apply.

Charity towards others efforts etc, before I pour out a diatribe
in a certain direction.

Diplomacy is not my forte'.
I want so much to scream out my pain too.

Your past efforts need no more reasoning.
Your direction is sound.
Criticism can come later if the video doesn't deliver the goods.

I'm hanging out to be your first detractor.
PM me when you have finished editing so that I can whinge
about how awful and awkward it is.
I'm slavering at the mouth to put you down.

Diplomacy! I forgot.
Negativity is just so much sweeter.

Put on the earmuffs and go forward friend.
That way you won't be aware of too much banging
on the drums around you.

The natives get very restless in Sydney.

Chris.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar 2009, 10:44    Post subject:  

Sorry for boring people with my diatribe, my reasoning was it is best to give too much information than too little when it comes to the issue of a "corporate" getting involved in puppy linux and taking whatever small credit there is to be had! I would really like to just work on puppy linux as an individual, but the money police here would have a field day with me. I am no Mark Shuttleworth.

Weve actually had a long hard look at re-incorporating ourselves as a registered charity, with the aims of recycling waste and bridging the "digital divide". The reporting and accounting obligations for that would be massive however, and we just do not have to staff/skills to do that for the size of operation we currently are. It is something that we will look at again in the future.

@Raffy, what you suggest would be ideal, perhaps

"Presented by Robert Simpson of Ecomoney Systems Ltd, a registered Social Enterprise",

that would pretty much describe my part (presenting), as well as mentioning the name under which I personally do my puppy related work, and the way that work operates. (Im not sure mentioning community currencies would be relevant). If people were interested, they would be able to look us up and see that we just use and where we can contribute to Puppy Linux, and were no kind of "Canonical".

I see you thinking with the community ownership part, basically the major part of our work is owned by the puppy linux community....puppy linux itself! In that respect, the puppy linux community owns far more of Ecomoney Systems then Ecomoney Systems owns Puppy Linux! Puppy linux belongs to everyone who works on it.

I agree somewhat with Ttuxxx's valid points, for new users coming over from proprietry operating systems where all of their software is guarded with vicious lawyers, they might get the dangerous impression that we are somehow majorly responsible for its development, rather than the small contribution to it we have made - just like any of its users who engage with the wider puppy linux community. Giving this impression is something I too would want to avoid like the plague.

Perhaps in the part on the instructional video where we explain about the way Puppy Linux/open source is developed, I would have the opportunity to make that clear. Ecomoney Systems isnt the only commercial or quasi-commercial company involved in the puppy linux open source development process, and that project is for the far greater part driven by selfless individuals who give their time and skills for free. Its actually a big plus part for the end-user who the video is aimed at that they too can play a part in puppy linux's development, whether they have actual coding skills or not.

Were actually a lot less commercial than any others I have heard about, and our bank balance (about £34 when I last checked) is proof of that.

I know Im labouring the point, but I really wouldnt want to make any enemies or cause any resentment with this video amongst the community. Its better everything is made clear and understood in advance.

Back to the video:-

My fathers company, like I say, uses an dedicated Amiga computer to do its "non-linear" editing. As a result, the titles come out really badly. Would there be someone who has a better way of titling videos who would be willing to do this part. My father has cameras that are worth far more than even Ttuxxx's expensive camcorder, the results of which have often been used on local and national television in the UK. If he would just do the "raw footage" part and leave the titling to someone with better titling equipment Im sure it would make for a much better overall result.

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