Is Puppy Green?

Puppy related raves and general interest that doesn't fit anywhere else
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aarf

#16 Post by aarf »

what you would be more advised to take aim at is the politics of the limited pie.

eden6000
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#17 Post by eden6000 »

And what about this??? It's in italian, but it's easy to understand (or you can always translate it...) http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solare_termodinamico
Just imagine how many areas there are in the world like deserts where you could build such plants....we could solve energy needs for all the planet...if only we were less individualist......

eden6000
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#18 Post by eden6000 »

edit: this is the same in english...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy

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ecomoney
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#19 Post by ecomoney »

Puppy is TOTALLY green!

Not only does it effectively double to triple the lifespan of a useable computer, but it gives people reliable free access to the only (comparatively) unrestricted and unbiased information source there is...the internet. If we are as a species to avoid environmental collapse, we need to be educated and informed. We also need to update and reform the our financial system, and the activities that are made "profitable" by it. With the general amount of debt in most countries vastly surpassing the amount of money there is to pay it back, new technologies find it hard to gain a foothold while there is so much money invested in old technology...i.e. OIL

The "light bulb effect" (make them last half as long, sell twice as many) doesnt just apply to commercial software and computers, it applies to all technology we use, cars, washing machines etc. Linux/Open source is currently the only example I know of of unrestricted, licience free and non commercially driven technology around. Economic literacy from free media like the internet, together with the open source development methodology (which could equally be applied to cars and other technology should patents not exist to prevent it), will eventually produce a change in our mindset.

All of humankinds problems have always been resolved using technology, and puppy/linux is one of the first examples of the type of technology that will progress us as a species.

I recommend anyone reading that cares about these things to watch the most popular "free" film in the world, that is only able to be delivered because of free software and internet technology. This film is called "Zeitgeist" and can be viewed from here
Puppy Linux's [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=296352#296352]Mission[/url]

Sorry, my server is down atm!

aarf

#20 Post by aarf »

With the general amount of debt in most countries vastly surpassing the amount of money there is to pay it back
i always assumed money was printed by governments, i didnt realize that it was a gift from the gods.
humankinds problems have always been resolved using technology
you mean like nuclear weapons and jet fighters/bombers?

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hillside
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#21 Post by hillside »

I always assumed money was printed by governments, i didnt realize that it was a gift from the gods.
I expect you are referring specifically to Representative money or Symbolic money, in which case, you are absolutely correct.

Certain resources, which can also be used as money, certainly seem to be "given from the gods." Many of these resources are limited. Re-using resources reduces the stress of limited availability. Thus, Puppy is green -- at least in certain ways. (One often has to use qualifiers and weasel words since so many answers seem to be predicated on assumptions within the question.)

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sunburnt
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#22 Post by sunburnt »

Solar seemed great until I found out that they lose 1/2 their output in 10 to 20 years.
So they need to be replaced after that time ( expensive & nongreen! ).
The new solar cells may last longer, I don't know.
They're simple to use & maintain but don't pan out so well for large powerful setups.

Wind generators last 10 to 20 years with little to no maintenance.
Expensive to setup & maintain but they're rebuildable & so ecofriendly.
They work very well for larger high power setups ( house & up ).

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#23 Post by cthisbear »

" The production of these film-like solar cells will be literally as easy as printing money,

DMcCunney
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#24 Post by DMcCunney »

01micko wrote:
DMcCunney wrote:Yes, Puppy could run on one of those monitors. Just dispense with X and GUIs and do everything from a command line... :)
The monitor, maybe, some serious kernel hacking would be needed for anything else from that era! (IMO)
That's why I specified the monitor. I'm not sure you could get Linux to run on an AT.

The AT units used the Intel 80286 CPU. There were various attempts to get Unix running on them, and none worked well because of architectural issues with the CPU. (Like, it only allowed one real mode session at a time, and there was an instruction to enter protected mode and get a larger virtual address space, but none to leave it. You had to do a CPU reset. ) Also, Intel CPUs use a segmented architecture, instead of a flat linear address space.

On the original PC using the 8088 chip, you had a total of 1MB of addressable memory, and a segment was 64KB. MS-DOS had six different memory models a programmer had to be aware of, depending on whether their code and data fit in a segment or slopped over to multiple segments. A 286 had virtual memory, but IIRC, a segment was 16MB, which is nothing by today's standards. The 386 was a proper 32 bit processor with better memory management capabilities, more than one rael mode session at a time was possible, and a segment on a 386 was 4GB.

Unix became a lot more possible on Intel CPUs when the 386 was available.

OTOH, I still own an AT&T 3B1 computer, which was a desktop machine intended to compete with the IBM PC. It used a 10 mhz Motorola 68010 CPU, with a bit mapped monochrome console screen and GUI, and would boot and run a version of AT&T Unix System V Release 2 and run apps and perform useful work in one megabyte of memory. Give it more and it flew. I had a client back then using a 3B1 with four attached ANSI terminals and a printer, running a custom distribution management application. The box had 2MB of RAM. Performance was acceptable.

I looked at my 3B1, then I looked at my AT clone which just about ran Windows 3.11 in 8MB of RAM, gazed in teh general direction of Redmond, WA, and said "Microsoft, what are you doing?" I stilll say that.
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Dennis

DMcCunney
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#25 Post by DMcCunney »

sunburnt wrote:Solar seemed great until I found out that they lose 1/2 their output in 10 to 20 years.
So they need to be replaced after that time ( expensive & nongreen! ).
The new solar cells may last longer, I don't know.
They're simple to use & maintain but don't pan out so well for large powerful setups.

Wind generators last 10 to 20 years with little to no maintenance.
Expensive to setup & maintain but they're rebuildable & so ecofriendly.
They work very well for larger high power setups ( house & up ).
Hmmm.

Solar cells lose half their output in 10-20 years and need to be replaced.

Wind generators last 10-20 years.

So in 10 or 20 years, you are looking at costs, either way.

Wind power and photovoltaic share two qualifications: they are capital intensive and they are site dependent. That is, they cost a lot to build/install, and can't be used everyplace. Wind turbines are big and require large open spaces to put wind farms. Photovoltaics require a lot of surface area in places where you get a lot of sun.

Both are valuable, but neither is usable everywhere, and neither by itself is a panacea.
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rjbrewer
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#26 Post by rjbrewer »

DMcCunney wrote

I've got Puppy running on an old notebook I was given by a friend, who bought a newer, faster system. It's a device using power in my home that wasn't there before, and I now use more energy because I'm running Puppy.
I also have Puppy running on an old notebook I was given by
a friend; but I use less energy now. The secret is to "turn off"
the less efficient device when using the more efficient one. LOL

rjb

[/b]

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

aarf

#27 Post by aarf »

rjbrewer wrote:DMcCunney wrote

I've got Puppy running on an old notebook I was given by a friend, who bought a newer, faster system. It's a device using power in my home that wasn't there before, and I now use more energy because I'm running Puppy.
I also have Puppy running on an old notebook I was given by
a friend; but I use less energy now. The secret is to "turn off"
the less efficient device when using the more efficient one. LOL

rjb
it is groundbreaking discoveries like this that will get us to that paradise planet in the distant galaxy.

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01micko
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#28 Post by 01micko »

aarf wrote:
rjbrewer wrote:DMcCunney wrote

I've got Puppy running on an old notebook I was given by a friend, who bought a newer, faster system. It's a device using power in my home that wasn't there before, and I now use more energy because I'm running Puppy.
I also have Puppy running on an old notebook I was given by
a friend; but I use less energy now. The secret is to "turn off"
the less efficient device when using the more efficient one. LOL

rjb
it is groundbreaking discoveries like this that will get us to that paradise planet in the distant galaxy.
Obviously
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access

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Pizzasgood
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#29 Post by Pizzasgood »

there is enough geothermal energy in this planet to last so far into the future that earthlings will have long left for "greener" pastures in another galaxy before it is exhausted, even if it is used in the most inefficient manner available.
Never, ever underestimate the human race's ability to waste.

Just look at computers. Every time the processing speed increases, software adds enough bloat to compensate.

Increase the energy available, and we will find a use for it. Things that were once expensive and rare due to excessive power needs would become cheep and widespread.

If you build it, they will come.


EDIT: Though, I'm not sure whether we could find a fast enough means of extracting the energy to cause any issues. In that sense, yes it could last for a long long time.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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aarf

#30 Post by aarf »

Never, ever underestimate the human race's ability to waste
.....
I'm not sure whether we could find a fast enough means of extracting the energy
implies >>>> however it is allowed to underestimate the human race's ability to extract the energy.

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Pizzasgood
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#31 Post by Pizzasgood »

Getting energy is much harder than wasting it. And humans are lazy.

We could probably do it, but the effort it would require to figure out how to extract the energy at such a fast rate would probably be much more than the effort to get the same amount of energy through orbital solar power stations. And those can also be scaled up much larger than geothermal - the sun outputs obscene amounts of energy, very ripe for the wasting.

Not that I'm advocating solar over geothermal. Just saying that when it comes to very large amounts, solar becomes cheaper and simpler. I don't know how they compare at the scales we're dealing with in the present. My guess is that geothermal is more practical. Especially if you're in a good location.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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ecomoney
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#32 Post by ecomoney »

i always assumed money was printed by governments, i didnt realize that it was a gift from the gods.
Money isnt printed by governments, money is printed by those that govern.
"Give me control of a nation's money
and I care not who makes the laws. - Mayer Amschel Rothschild"
It also happens to be the same people that have so much money "invested" in (i.e. lent to) current technologies, which is why were still using the 120 year old internal combustion engine/fossil fuel technology.

Linux is a shining example of what free technology can achieve compared to the same technology with commercial restrictions. Puppy linux has the added advantage that it makes this technology accessible to new users, makes shared free knowledge accessible to them, and will essentially triple the useable life of a big source of environmental pollution...obselete computers.

I believe once people realise the superiority of non commercial software technology, they will automatically wonder how it might also apply to cars, aviation, energy, and hopefully even how we exchange our time, goods and skills.

Thats basically why Im here.
Puppy Linux's [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=296352#296352]Mission[/url]

Sorry, my server is down atm!

aarf

#33 Post by aarf »

DMcCunney wrote: photovoltaic share two qualifications: they are capital intensive and they are site dependent. That is, they cost a lot to build/install, and can't be used everyplace.
______
Dennis
this guy would have you believe otherwise :watch the video

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Mr. Maxwell
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#34 Post by Mr. Maxwell »

Lets see how you guys take this...

Nuclear fission is perfect stopgap technology. It's clean, efficient, and the new reactor designs are much safer then the old ones. It's perfect to use until alternate technologies (solar, wind, geothermal) take over because it is cheap and extreamly cost effective, plus there is a huge amount of fuel avalible. Also, being from Lincoln, Nebraska I get a large part of my energy from a Nuclear power plant and it is very cheap. However I think the long term solution is to develop fusion reactors as those will be even more cost effective and even more abundant fuel. But fusion is a long ways off, which is why we need more fission.

As far as puppy goes, the average new laptop uses less than 100 watts, computers are not where we need to focus clean energy, cars are what we need to focus on.
Last edited by Mr. Maxwell on Sun 08 Mar 2009, 18:10, edited 2 times in total.

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hillside
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#35 Post by hillside »

Nuclear fusion is perfect stopgap technology.
You mean fission, right?

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