woof alpha1

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tom4jesus
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#31 Post by tom4jesus »

tronkel wrote:WhoDo wrote:
Woof is a build system like Unleashed. It isn't a "Puppy version(sic)" in its own right.
Eventually the Woof build system could become so easy to use to build a DIY flavour of Puppy, that even an inexperienced end-user could build his own ISO. This depends on providing a GUI front-end to run whatever build scripts are necessary .

This sort of easy customisation might blow away any desire on the part of the end-user to even consider using the "old-fashioned" Unleashed Puppy series(s).

Hence my prediction in the previous post about eclipsing all previous Puppy versions. I could be wrong though! :idea:
I think you are right on target!

I started using linux about 4 months ago with Ubuntu on my laptop, I then decided after a couple weeks to try my hand at Archlinux with an old computer I had in the attic just to see if I could get it installed after hearing so much about it.
What I found was I learned more about linux from doing an Arch install and having to setup and basically compile my own system from the "ground up" then I did any other way, and I had a ball doing it.

For those not familiar with Archlinux installs. You start by installing a very basic system that leaves you with nothing but a command propt on the screen!, and this after you have manually edited the configuration files for xorg and all other aspects of the system for hours. You then download and configure each separate package from the repository including the desktop environment that you choose. I have tried most of the DE available for Linux under Arch.
And the thing is people LOVE it, and really enjoy building their own system this way. The "Archway" as they call it.
And as I already said I did this as a new Linux user, Yes it took me literally all night of reading through instructions and the wiki and forum, and figuring out all the hardware for the old machine I put it on, but I learned more about Linux doing it than I would have any other way. And it gives you a great sense of satisfaction that you have "built" your own system the way you want it.


I forsee and predict that Woof will be like Archlinux has become to many as a way to make your own customized sytem that fits your needs and hardware. But better then Archlinux it will have Barry's incredible layered squash file system making it portable and diverse to many more applications.

If we think about why any of us are here using Puppy the one great motivator is it's fun! It's addictive, as Barry always says, and it is a great hobby where you are always learning. I think that is what motivates most Linux users. Yes, there are some windows refugees that just want a simple system that works and is free, but I think more Linux users are the former variety; and as such, the average Linux user is going to be someone that wants to learn what is "under the hood" and play with their system.
There is no better way to do that when to "build your own system" something that Arch and Gentoo gave users the ability to do already, and now Barry is in a whole new way.
I think more people are going to be willing to take the time to learn how to do it with Woof then you might think.

I was holding off on trying it out because of my inexperience and uncertainty with the alpha version after hearing about conflicts with the compiling of packages, but after reading of everyones experiences and enthusiasm I am going to have to give it a try!
:D
Tom
Last edited by tom4jesus on Tue 17 Feb 2009, 09:43, edited 1 time in total.
[u]Netbook[/u]; Compaq cq10 with Quirky008,Ubuntu 9.10,W7 :oops:

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Lobster
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#32 Post by Lobster »

Here is what one version looks like (Slackware Puppy):
Image

This morning after not using the Puppy pfix=ram option and not setting up the firewall I was easily able to get a web connection.
From the menu section the only difference to a standard Puppy that I could find is
'check dependencies installed pkg' (not yet working)
and the default colour scheme . . .

Well that is from the menus. What are the underlying differences?

Do those installing the Ubuntu or Arch version have a similar set up?
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01micko
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#33 Post by 01micko »

Yes lobster,my screeny would be identical except replace "Slack" with "Arch".
What good is this? I hear you thinking, hmmm, well it's early days yet, the underlying architecture is there, and I'm sure native package support for relevant distros will be possible, ie, debs, aur. etc, and wasn't it easy to build a "(insert your choice here)" pup!
Did you fix your 'abiword'? I had the same problem and immediately thought puppy. I ran abiword from a terminal and it was a missing lib, you can find it in 4.1.2, or 4.2 beta. Mine works fine now.

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#34 Post by Lobster »

Did you fix your 'abiword'?
No.
During the download packages stage, there will need to be some acknowledgment of all packages downloaded or auto retrying (I hope). This is where the issue occurred - early days though :)

I am also hoping that woof will eventually be based on 4.2 (when it is ready)
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zygo
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#35 Post by zygo »

I chose the slackware base but had to disconnect. I'll wait for BKs update to the download script that resumes partial package download.

Can anybody tell me how big the download is in total?

Why is as much as 10gb needed is there compilation invloved?

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dogone
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Woof build disk space

#36 Post by dogone »

zygo wrote:...Can anybody tell me how big the download is in total?
Zygo, I monitored my Woof Slackware build using gdmap (very interesting, by the way) and noted that

- the Slackware download came to about 230MB
- the build process used a maximum of 1.6 of the 10GB available to it.

I later ran an Arch build. The Arch download was around 210MB. Each of the two builds took 4-5 hours on my 2GHz Athlon machine while using only about 5% of the processor. That last figure surprises me.

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dinky
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#37 Post by dinky »

Hi folks, this is really exciting. I haven't made a build yet, but plan to as soon as I have time. I'm not that interested in the standard puppy however, so how do I add & remove packages before the build? I'm assuming I need to edit one of the config files, can someone shed some light on this for me?

And also, I am assuming that a distro build like this would be compatible with a distros pakages... does that mean until package support becomes available, I can simply convert a package to a directory, run the the dir2pet script, then install it that way? Truly awesome if that's the case. I forsee this becoming THE tool to build puppy's. I think there will be alot of people who will do it from scratch, and as puppy is so riiculously easy to install, and so versatile, there will be LOTS of scope for new projects. Well done Barry!

~dinky

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#38 Post by Lobster »

dinky wrote:Hi folks, this is really exciting. I haven't made a build yet, but plan to as soon as I have time. I'm not that interested in the standard puppy however, so how do I add & remove packages before the build?
Gosh it is barely out the door. Not been implemented yet
- some of us await Alpha2 and will report back :)
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/

However if making a 'Woof Ripple' some coding requirements could eventually be automated and also allow for other customised puplets to use the woof system

This script might be of use to you and Barry
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 882#271882

and also Pizzagood's 'Pupbegone' has been updated
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#39 Post by dinky »

Hi Lobster, thanks for that, but not quite what I was looking for. I'm interested in the new remaster program, looks truly awesome. I'm aware the automated scripts for package retrieval haven't been automated yet, but that isn't my question. It's possible this will be solved before I get to it, but what I want to know is what to hack in order to change the packages that get downloaded and built in the first place. While Barry's scripts for building puppy from unleashed are brilliant, to make multiple builds isn't practical unless you hack the text file which describes the packagesin the first place... perhaps htough I just like more control over the process. Anyway, until an easier way for woof arrives, I want to change the packages downloaded in the first instance. Had a brief look at the scripts, but wasn't quite sure which text file (or files) to change. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? And you're right that it isn't off the ground yet, but it's off the ground enough to start building things from, which is what I'm interested in. Very exciting work. Cheers.

~dinky

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dogone
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Dreamtime

#40 Post by dogone »

Woof alpha 1, originally intended by Barry as a pre-alpha, should still be treated as a [proof of] concept. I urge everyone to limit the "blue sky" questions to Barry. The guy has his hands full and is still very much at the creative stage. This is the "Dreamtime" so far as Woof's concerned.

"The Dreamtime laid down the patterns of life for the Aboriginal people. "The Dreaming" was the time of creation." (Wikipedia)
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dinky
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#41 Post by dinky »

Agreed. Bump to my last post, anyone with any ideas? Love the sketches by the way... would be fun to build an Australian version of puppy using sketches like these as icon buttons...lol.

~dinky

ferikenagy
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woof alpha1 on dell 1526 laptop

#42 Post by ferikenagy »

my hardware is Dell 1526 laptop with 2Gb ram , SATA HDD, AMD turion 64x2-TL60, SB600 chipset,ATIx1200 video
slackware & ubuntu woof compiled ok ,with some minor libraries missing, i understand Barry is working on this, so I don't report them.My report is about woof with kernel 2.6.27.4 SMP.
-First of all this is the first time xorg recognize and use correctly video resolution 1200x800 on my ATI card (I presume because of use "radeon" module).
-Wreless: I have an Broadcom BCM4311 card, the "ssb" & "ohci_hcd" modules where loaded from start (no "b43" module), so the network wizard does not recognized the wifi card only the ethernet card. Manually I removed "ohci_hcd" & " ssb" module, and after that reloaded with " modprobe ohci_hcd ", who reloaded automatically the "ssb" & "b43","mac80211"....and all depending subsequent modules.After that the network wizard recognized my wifi card too, and i could connect to an WPA/TKIP network.
-for some reason I have no sound at all, the modules "snd_hda_intel" is loaded , and ALSA sound wizard, could not configured it correctly, so no sound until further investigation (on puppy 412retro I have sound)
-incorporated webcam does not work because module "uvcvideo" could not be loaded, it gave "uvcvideo: Unknown symbol v4l_compat_ioctl32" (in puppy 412 retro it works)
-PET get download manager, is not working it could not download any pets from any site (iblio,...) it gave Error on a pink windows saying:"xxxx.pet was not downloaded successfully"
-new "Power" feature in " Puppy Event Manager", to power down system after some given minutes, won't work either ( I tried to put 3 minutes, but it looks like accepting minimum 5 minutes only, but it not power down the system )
-earlier little bug: on some previous puppy was solved, but reappeared.On frugal install, booted with grub with option "pfix=ram"puppy searches for pup_save.2fs files on hdd (even it should not), and if finds them (in my case there is pup_save file on sda10) it marks that partition on desktop icon (with yellow spot or with concentric circles in woof)as like been mounted, which is wrong, but does not mount it (no /mnt/sda10 directory in /mnt) which is correct, see attached picture of /mnt (sda5&sda7 are mounted to see the difference to sda10)
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#43 Post by Lobster »

would be fun to build an Australian version of puppy using sketches like these as icon buttons
Puppy DreamTime
. . . I like it already

or Puppy Myth (include other traditions)
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
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correction

#44 Post by ferikenagy »

I had to make an correction : the new function "Power"(in puppy event manager) who power down in imposed time if was no mouse activity, IT WORKS !, I posted previous that it not works, but I was wrong because I forget to "restart X server" to make the change to take effect.

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dogone
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Puppy Dream Time

#45 Post by dogone »

Lobster wrote:
would be fun to build an Australian version of puppy using sketches like these as icon buttons
Puppy DreamTime
. . . I like it already
or Puppy Myth (include other traditions)
Guys, I really like this idea. The technological gaps (a lot's changed in 6000 years) could be filled by hand rendering one of jebaJQ8's icon sets in the Aboriginal style. Add an earth tone theme or two, appropriate background and we'd have something that beautifully celebrates Puppy's roots.

Any takers amongst you artistic types?

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#46 Post by Lobster »

Not sure where to even begin . . . here maybe . . .
http://aboriginalart.com.au/gallery/iconography.html

- eh sorry seem way off topic . . . 8)
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dinky
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#47 Post by dinky »

To be honest it's a great idea, b ut I feel very uncomfortable. it's a big taboo in Australia to use aboriginal art, images, and stories without prior permission. Comes from our history of colonialization. It seems silly when thinking about this in terms of an open source community, but it's very real here. Would be interested in icons and a theme inspired by this artwork, and that of other similar artwork form around the globe, providing it wasn't a direct rip-off. Anyway, way off the topi people. Lets start a seperate thread for anyone who's interested, and keep this for woof.

~dinky

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#48 Post by 01micko »

G'day dinky,

I know a couple of Aboriginal elders around my local area. One in particular, and I know he likes computers. If you and Dogone and whoever else are interested in pursuing this avenue I will approach him. And if it is ok with BK and WhoDo.

Permission from Indigenous Australians is Important, for us as much them. Reconciliation is an ongoing issue in Australia, and one thing Kevin Rudd done right was to apologise to the indigenous commmunity for past government wrongdoings to this community.

We must also consider BarryK and WhoDo. I'm sure they don't want Puppy or Woof to become a political and social football. Not all publicity is good publicity.

What I have found with Aboriginal culture is that some things are tabu for some and other things are not. For example, any male may play a didjeredoo, but a female, no matter race or creed may not. So problems may arise where a male may use a certain icon set and a female may not and vice versa. Oh, and a different thing for children. Probably icons representative of animals would be fairly inert. Could be an interesting project, with `woof' at the base.

This could be good for Puppy and the Indigenous People of Australia, but softly, gently and with due respect.

Cheers

Mick

UPDATE: Thread started http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 671#276671
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sue
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better build times

#49 Post by sue »

The build times can be improved considerably, if your HW is up to it.
1. Add make to the environment
2. Replace the slow serial for loops with make -k <n_jobs>.. Put n in the config file.
I'll refactor the scripts over the weekend, since make wants to call scripts.

No luck with upup; I haven't been able to get the intel video drivers up on any puppy or woof I've tried, although ubuntu-ibex-x86 and x64 run fine. I made rxvt in 1download conditional on DISPLAY, so I can build from CLI.
Puppy: Because I want speed!

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#50 Post by CavedOOde »

Hi there,
Would be kinda cool to build an Arch puppy and be able to use their AUR PKGBUILD system, there is ton's and ton's of software in there.

After i read up some on puppy and find and setup my compiler environment, i want to dig into that. It seems not to hard to make a .pet from a tar.gz Archlinux package. Only thing that comes to mind when creating packages from AUR is using their ABS tools and convert the created package in question to a .pet using parts of woof.
Think it be even possible to make a GUI app and download a PKGBUILD script and automate the hole thing.

The only problem i could think of is that all the dev tools needed would not be in devx, but that could be added easily right ?

I may be wrong, if i am forgive , i am using puppy for like 3 days.

Question: after one would build an Arch puppy can one also generate the devx.sfs for it ?

Greetz
Caved

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