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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
GRUB in Puppy 4.12-Normal Frugal
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edoc


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4337
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 00:43    Post subject:  GRUB in Puppy 4.12-Normal Frugal  

TWO QUICK QUESTIONS ...

1. Does it matter in a Puppy 4.12-Normal Frugal install (ext3) if the "root" line reads "root (hd0,0)" OR "rootnoverify (hd0,0)"?

2. Does this GRUB setup look OK for a Puppy 4.12-Normal Frugal install (ext3)?

Code:

timeout 3
color light-gray/blue black/light-gray
# End GRUB global section
# Linux bootable partition config begins
  title Puppy Linux 4.12-Normal(on /dev/sda1)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel (hd0,0)/pup412/vmlinuz PMEDIA=idehd PDEV1=sda1 psubdir=pup412 vga=normal acpi=noirq
  initrd (hd0,0)/pup412/initrd.gz

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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 01:10    Post subject:  

A full hard drive install is known as "normal"
The install with a pup save file is known as "frugal"

Usually the menu is something like this for frugal

title Puppy Linux 4.1.2 frugal
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
kernel /puppy412/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy412
initrd /puppy412/initrd.gz

If what you have now is working, it's okay

rjb
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edoc


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4337
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 01:18    Post subject:  

rjbrewer wrote:
A full hard drive install is known as "normal"
The install with a pup save file is known as "frugal"


I was told that "Normal" referred to the standard release (Full or Frugal) and "Retro" referred to an older Kernel used with a particular release. Was I wrongly instructed?

rjbrewer wrote:
Usually the menu is something like this for frugal
title Puppy Linux 4.1.2 frugal
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
kernel /puppy412/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy412
initrd /puppy412/initrd.gz
If what you have now is working, it's okay
rjb


Nothing i ever "okay" when I am involved ... I always find a way to either discover that rare anomaly or I unintentionally break things. Rolling Eyes

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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 01:27    Post subject:  

You're right;

A full install is sometimes called a normal install and now also refers
to the pup with the latest kernel; and retro with the previous
kernel.

In the latest kernel the drives are sdx
In the previous the drives are hdx

Grub still uses hdx
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8904
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 12:08    Post subject:  

Earlier versions of Puppy used confusing terminology for the method of a hard drive install, like Type 1 versus Type 2 and Normal versus Frugal.

The problem is that "normal" means different things to different users. So the new terminology used by the Universal Installer is Full versus Frugal.

BarryK's website uses the words Standard and Retro to differentiate between the kernel versions.

For an explanation of "root" versus "rootnoverify", read here. But I have yet to find a place where your choice makes a difference to how Puppy boots.

Personally, I use "rootnoverify" to boot an NTFS Windows partition. My rationale is that GRUB can't read NTFS in the first place, so there's no point in trying to verify it. But I could be wrong on this.

Last edited by rcrsn51 on Wed 07 Jan 2009, 19:48; edited 1 time in total
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edoc


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4337
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 13:04    Post subject:  

It sounds as though if I want the device to be mounted and not merely recognized as available then I need to use only "root".

Perhaps that explains the problem I had a while back where I could not get one of my devices to automatically mount at boot time - presuming that I may hav had "rootnoverify" instead of "root". I don't recall but it is food for thought.

GRUB tends to create a confusing default menu.lst that is useless for a Frugal install.

Quote:
13.3.32 rootnoverify
— Command: rootnoverify device [hdbias]

Similar to root (see root), but don't attempt to mount the partition. This is useful for when an OS is outside of the area of the disk that GRUB can read, but setting the correct root device is still desired. Note that the items mentioned in root above which derived from attempting the mount will not work correctly.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8904
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 16:12    Post subject:  

I don't know what GRUB is doing when it "mounts" the drive, but it would have nothing to do with the drive being mounted in Linux.

Regarding the dummy menu.lst entry for a frugal install: The Universal Installer puts the correct entry in a temporary location and leaves it to the user to manually edit the menu.lst. A first-time user could easily miss this and be left with a non-bootable system.
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edoc


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4337
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 20:05    Post subject:  

Why doesn't Puppy include a script to over-write the incorrect GRUB menu.lst or pop-up a step-by-step guided process to get it right?

It has been over a decade since I wrote scripts or any sort of code but it seems to me to be a trivial bit of programming.

Off-topic but speaking of trivial coding ... Why doesn't Seamonkey trap the error when one enters a search string into the URL field and hits Enter instead of clicking Search?

Instead of an error pop-up it should default to Search. Sigh.

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bambuko


Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 385
Location: North Devon

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 20:26    Post subject:  

edoc wrote:
. . .Why doesn't Puppy include a script to over-write the incorrect GRUB menu.lst . . .

because it's Linux not MS Laughing
if I wanted OS that "knows better" than I would have stuck with XP
I like being in control and responsible for my actions and don't want no OS overwriting anything I have done (right or wrong - if it is wrong I will correct it myself) Wink
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edoc


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4337
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan 2009, 20:49    Post subject:  

We are trying to encourage new people (Read: non-geeks and non-programmers) to use Puppy.

Failure to provide a path for them to successfully use Puppy does not serve anyone well.

Those who do not want the script could easily bypass it.

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Don't google Search! http://duckduckgo.com
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