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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Vision, Infrastructure, People and the Puppy
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4843
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Tue 21 Oct 2008, 19:06    Post subject:  Vision, Infrastructure, People and the Puppy
Subject description: exploring the future for the "Puppy " given by Barry Kauler
 

Over at puppylinux.com/blog, Barry is offering to send each developer a CD of 4.1.1 as a farewell gift. I've read it yesterday, and for some reason I felt unusually exhausted until bedtime. I must have been sad.

(This morning, am writing these notes to convince myself that I should not feel that way. )

Vision - Barry's original goals for Puppy can be summarized as: (1) booting from and saving to different media (optical disks included); (2) be fast while at the same time friendly to newbies; (3) include all applications for daily use. Old PCs and diskless thin stations were mentioned subsequently, and this is the part that can be updated, for example, by adding "will work in x86 as well as non-x86 computers".

Infrastructure - Pizzasgood once said that the community needs to build a development infrastructure for Puppy because Barry's brain would no longer be there when Barry relinquishes the project. That is why the community is now hosted at sourceforge.net, thanks to Chase (cb88) for creating it. There are also (1) puppylinux.org, thanks to WhoDo who paid for its initial year; (2) puppyisos.org, thanks to Mark Ulrich (MU) who has been hosting both ISOs and packages for Puppy; (3) puppylinux.ca, thanks to Eric Caneri who is also exploring other possibilities for hosting development for Puppy. (There are other hosts, but this is an attempt to list the mainstream ones. Ted Dog's puptrix.org, which used to host Puppy sources, is going offline at the end of this month.) Last but not least, the community is hosted here, thanks to John Murga.

People - With a committed leader for Puppy, the community simply rallies behind him to do development. It used to be Barry, but who else? The answer for now is getting project leaders/coordinators on a rotating basis. But who is willing and able to explore the tough questions of developing the Puppy core and do development full time? Perhaps the answer is "None", that is, unless an enabling/support structure for development is in place. (In this regard, Barry's "retirement" is essentially a reduction of his scope of [and time spent for] development work.) Luckily for the community, there are young developers who can take on this challenge when the time comes*. Meantime, the support structure has to be worked on.

Structure - Evolving a structure is both a question of people and type of organization. The right organization appears to be a foundation since it is consistent with the "free" nature of Puppy, but the cooperative structure is also being explored currently. Either way, the question of "What for?" has to be answered. The answer could be as simple as "for raising fund to support development". However, there is perhaps no simple answer when the matter of money comes up. There should be a Treasurer, and if there is a Treasurer, there should be an Auditor, and there should be a governing Board, and there should be a formal registered entity. The difficult part is the registration of the entitiy. Are there registration models that allow international membership of the Board? We can probably look forward to help from the UK through tombh (note that the UK has historically hosted the innovations in forming companies and cooperatives).

Hmm, this post is getting long. Quite simply, I want to wake up to each day when Puppy is moving forward, as always, to unknown but useful areas, like making my kid's cellphone run like it has never run before (this was already done by Puppy for old PCs and thin clients). But that simple wish has a complex answer. Smile
-------------------------------------
* As an example, Pizzasgood will graduate from college in 18 months, so there should be a structure to take him in by that time (or sooner, as he has been developing for Puppy already). Pardon the example, PG, but we do need a person to lead development, and I feel that the young ones are the best candidates (other candidates are cb88, sirduncan, ..).

EDIT in italics to clarify meaning.

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Last edited by raffy on Wed 22 Oct 2008, 04:55; edited 1 time in total
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15550
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Oct 2008, 01:10    Post subject:  

Quote:
There should be a Treasurer, and if there is a Treasurer, there should be an Auditor, and there should be a governing Board, and there should be a formal registered entity.


http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/archives/old-wikka-wikki/categorycommunity/puppy-42-deep-thought

No treasurer
No auditor
No registration

This is how the community works
http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/archives/old-wikka-wikki/categorycommunity/puppy-community

And this is how it will mature
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=241931#241931

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Trobin

Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 977
Location: BC Canada

PostPosted: Wed 22 Oct 2008, 02:08    Post subject:  

I think it then can be assumed that Puppy 4.1.1 will be the last of the breed, and that any future efforts, even though they bear the name Puppy Linux, will be just derivatives.
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4440
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed 22 Oct 2008, 02:59    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:

No treasurer
No auditor
No registration

I think the reason people are considering a cooperative or foundation is for the purpose of protecting Puppy's future direction and copyright.

Since BarryK is only stepping into the background, and will remain as Patron and advisor as well as retaining all copyright and domain registrations in the name of Puppy Linux, there doesn't seem to be a pressing need for infrastructure.

When or if the time comes that Barry wants to divest himself of the responsibility for maintaining Puppy's direction, ethos and intellectual property rights (the Puppy name IOW), then a cooperative or foundation becomes the only logical way to do so. Even if Barry is willing to let the community take over core development, he has shown no signs of putting his baby up for adoption! We are all just doting Uncles and Aunts being given the opportunity to mind the baby while Barry takes a well-earned rest.

Can we please stop worrying about finding new parents for a baby that hasn't yet been abandoned? Panic is highly infectious.

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Oct 2008, 03:21    Post subject:  

Quote:
it then can be assumed


Quote:
there doesn't seem to be a pressing need for infrastructure.


Perhaps.
Increasingly developers have been coding for Puppy. Even Barry is now producing a puplet derivative.

Perhaps we will have a competition for 4.3 to see which puplet we can hone and get together behind to create 4.3. Cool

Puppy 1.xx, 2.xx and 3.xx and 4.xx are all different
In order to create 4.2 somebody has to do the work. that will be WhoDo and Dougal (predominantly). If they need a treasurer, we will
have to find one.

Raffy is a worker and an organiser. When and if a third foundation is required or a Co-op or the first 'Linux Monarchy', I will support it. Organising for the sake of organising is not the same
as the requirements for Puppy.

Planning an organisation when you have not even answered the
question of WHY you need an organisation is fun.

So have fun.

Meanwhile testing of 4.1.1 and providing program updates for 4.2 is possible.

That is useful fun.

Quote:
Panic is highly infectious.


'DON'T PANIC' Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy Very Happy

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4843
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Wed 22 Oct 2008, 04:46    Post subject: reflection, not panic  

Oh, I posted a reflection, not panic. Smile It expresses the way I see things when I wrote the post.

As to
Lobster wrote:
Raffy is a worker and an organiser. When and if a third foundation is required or a Co-op or the first 'Linux Monarchy', I will support it. Organising for the sake of organising is not the same as the requirements for Puppy.

Some of the latest information about a person named "Raffy" may be found here.

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HairyWill


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 2946
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Wed 22 Oct 2008, 04:53    Post subject:  

WhoDo wrote:
When or if the time comes that Barry wants to divest himself of the responsibility for maintaining Puppy's direction, ethos and intellectual property rights (the Puppy name IOW), then a cooperative or foundation becomes the only logical way to do so. Even if Barry is willing to let the community take over core development, he has shown no signs of putting his baby up for adoption!
I agree with Trobin, there is no sustainable model for future development. If Barry wants more than superficial development of puppy I think he will need to share responsibility. Current developers may acknowledge the value of Barry's work now but will they really wait for his rubber stamp on their work to use the puppy name in 2/5/10 years time? No they will not, they will fork (this is the great thing about open source)

This is not about causing panic 4.1 and 3.01 are good working versions and in all likeliness the current community efforts will release a few enhanced versions based on these. I do not personally see this model as sustainable in the long term.

One of the attractions of puppy to a number of people is the low threshold to seeing their work in the finished product. I sincerely hope this can be maintained in the future.

I seem to be doing a lot of tub thumping recently. I am very much aware that puppy is Barry's creation and he has every right to do with it what he wants. It does not really seem certain what Barry wants for puppy in the future and that is completely understandable as current changes are significant. I am just not convinced that his publicly stated vision is sustainable.

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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Wed 22 Oct 2008, 06:38    Post subject:  

Contrary to popular belief, the sky is not falling. However, it is interesting to witness the melodrama of Raffy unearthing the remains of the Puppy Linux Foundation.

Pass the popcorn ...

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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 02:33    Post subject:  

alienjeff wrote:
Pass the popcorn ...


please do. mine is very stale.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4843
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Fri 24 Oct 2008, 06:27    Post subject: c'mon  

C'mon, guys, that's the way I felt at the time, so punch me with your kid gloves. Laughing

I hope the current development leaders are not offended, as I simply described realities, although on a very personal viewpoint.

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6815
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Fri 24 Oct 2008, 06:58    Post subject:  

AJ - please don't leave

The main feature is......

"AJ" by AJ Laughing Wink

Aitch Smile
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Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 776
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 10 Dec 2008, 07:57    Post subject:  

Hi

As BK says "I want Puppy to be a no brainer - switch it on and it just works"

This was the origional aim - and that should always remain our aim.

Let us not forget - or forget and regret.

It's a "no brainer"

Just my 0.02

As always - best regards - Ray
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Wed 10 Dec 2008, 08:12    Post subject:  

Man, talk about a target-rich environment ...
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6815
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed 10 Dec 2008, 09:21    Post subject:  

Fertile soil, eh? AJ?

and no mushrooms Laughing

Can't tear your roots out, I note Wink

Aitch Smile
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5087
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed 10 Dec 2008, 22:44    Post subject:  

Strange, no mention of MU, has he gone missing? ( I sure hope not !!! )

There's been lots of suggestions for a new for Puppy, some quite radical...
Puppy does multifaceted local boot, but only one type of network boot.
I suggested that & also adding Internet booting as well... Any interest?
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