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Why gxine???
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3794

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2008, 17:18    Post subject:  Why gxine???
Subject description: It is not even the best xine user interface
 

As I understand it, the gxine in Puppy 4.00 and 4.1 is two or three versions behind the current gxine, because all the more recent ones crash in Puppy. There is another disadvantage to gxine that I have just found, which is that gxine uses roughly twice as much cpu resources as the xine-ui (which is available in Petget).

Using htop (conveniently provided recently by aragon) I have been comparing the resources used by various media players and gxine uses more of them than not only xine-ui but more than any other media player! The numbers only apply to my 900MHz P3, but the relative values should hold. Htop also shows multiple tasks for each program, so that number also should be pegged to htop. It is the CPU number that caught my attention.

.....................CPU......................Tasks.................Mem
Base...........0.7%.......................14.......................49
gxine.......13.2%...................... 27........................68
Xine...........6.0%.......................33....................... 66

The Base is with Opera open and showing www.shoutcast.com and htop open. I then clicked the same station each time, Swiss Groove, and watched htop. The CPU numer varied around the median value I selected. I have obtained these same results consistently and the test is easy enough to set up so perhaps we could get some other numbers for comparison.

Since Xine is available and has quite a few pleasant looking skins, I can't imagine why I would use gxine.

I was testing players that play streaming audio, but for mp3's that are on one's computer, zigbert has built Pmusic. I left out xmms, which requires gtk1, which is not present in Puppy 4, plus xmms is not being maintained--the original developers are working on xmms2. I always liked xmms myself and it would run comparably to bmp (or even a little lighter). I also left out audacious because I got confused with all the dependencies. Additionally, although there are at least three different versions of audacious available on these forums, none of them are the current 1.5.1. There are already some strong alternatives to audacious and xmms which are much easier to install and use.

Here are some other results, for anyone who might be interested.

............................CPU.............Tasks...............Mem
Base...................0.7%..............14....................49
Realplayer..........7.9%..............24...................56
vlc 0.8.6h..........3.3%..............23....................54
vlc 0.9.2............3.3%..............27....................58
bmp....................2.0%..............20....................53 (beep media player pet)
foobar2000.......2.6%..............35....................65 (wine)
gxine.................13.2%...............27....................68
Xine...................6.0%...............33....................66 (Petget)

Beep-Media-Player and foobar2000 are audio only players; bmp had the lowest resource requirements overall (and played mp3's very well--but it did not play streaming aac+); foobar2000 beat everything but bmp, and that is running in wine!

Realplayer and Xine had more or less comparable requirements and in my experience approximately equal success in playing video formats (others will surely have more experience than I do at video formats). In my experience Realplayer is best at conveniently listening to real audio and video formats (such as on the BBC). I think that Realplayer does not play flac. Realplayer is also free but not open source.

The vlc players are not completely ready for Puppy. ttuuxxx and mikeb are working on them--and you can see their resource usage is admirably low. If they can be completely dialed in they would play "all" audio and video formats (providing a possible alternative to xine).

Pmusic http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=1061960398&t=31206
Beep-Media-Player http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=1144217813&t=20919
Realplayer http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=1059912142&t=27761
VLC http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=31890
foobar2000 http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=1416306669&t=32489
htop http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=33785
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6702
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2008, 19:29    Post subject:  

I'm just wondering if you've checked that Gxine isn't set to do a whole lot of video post-processing that the other players aren't set to do?

Quote:
plus xmms is not being maintained

Xmms is most certainly still maintained - it isn't that long ago that the latest version came out.
Some people around here are die-hard xmms fans, but if I could find something that worked as well I would find it hard to justify getting gtk1 just for xmms. I found BMP and audacious quite troublesome though Sad

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11775
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2008, 19:45    Post subject:  

What about mplayer?
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Bruce B

Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11488
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2008, 20:39    Post subject: Re: Why gxine???
Subject description: It is not even the best xine user interface
 

playdayz,

I feel safe in saying the reason why gxine has to do with considerations Barry made a few years ago. At that time Puppy's total size was a big consideration. It still is.

A major sales point for using another all around multimedia player would have to be based on size also.

Can you come up with some size figures?

Bruce

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3794

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2008, 21:01    Post subject:  

@disciple, Yes, thanks for reminding me. I made sure that the video post-processing for visualizations was set to None for both Gxine and for Xine-ui. When it is On (with goom as I recall) the cpu usage for gxine is up around 50%--even if the video screen with the visualization is hidden!!

My mistrake about xmms. I like it. This whole thing started when it wouldn't play streaming aac+.

XMMS 1.2.11 Released
1211 days ago we released 1.2.10, so what better day to release 1.2.11?
Nov 16, 2007


@ Bruce, It looks like gxine is 174 KB and xine-ui is 536 KB.

I hope no one thinks I was criticizing BarryK's choice to use gxine. I was surprised when I saw those double digits come up for gxine's cpu usage, so I collected some numbers to use as the basis for an enjoyable discussion. With everything else going on maybe no one had looked at those numbers in that way before. But now that I have seen them it does seem to me that xine-ui would be a better front end for the xine libraries.

Last edited by playdayz on Tue 30 Sep 2008, 22:09; edited 3 times in total
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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2008, 21:09    Post subject:  

also, don't forget...

I do believe one of the concepts of puppy was to be most friendly to MS converts.

Can anyone disagree that gxine is not the most "WMP like" in appearance and menu functionality?

I think that might be another reason it's chosen.

Btw, I believe the full screen problem might be related to the JWM version and not the GXINE version. It's just a guess though as I haven't tested yet.
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MustardMan

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue 30 Sep 2008, 23:39    Post subject:  

I am experiencing a "full screen" problem, and the mention of just such a problem only ever appears the once (in the previous post, did a search for gxine full screen) - initially I thought it was just my setup/hardware.

I assume the "full screen" problem is that when you select full screen mode, it tries to do it, but falls back to the current window mode?

I want to use puppy as a sort of jukebox player. I would like to set it up to automatically start playing mp3s on boot, and have goom running (full screen) as eye-candy. Perhaps another media player would be a better choice? Anyone?

Cheers,
MM
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6702
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 02:01    Post subject:  

Oh yeah - presumably you checked they were using the same output driver settings as well?

From memory I think Mplayer uses similar resources to VLC. But I think it has a better chance of getting into Puppy because it isn't absolutely HUGE when you manage to compile it with shared ffmpeg. In fact it isn't much bigger than Xine-lib + Gxine. Mplayer's main weaknesses are that the gui isn't a focus, and audio CD and DVDnav support aren't great. It has a truly superior browser plugin though.
I wonder if Pmusic can play CDs...

BTW
Quote:
Those who have been following the Dingo saga will know that it has been difficult to find a media player that is truly satisfactory. Alpha7 has Xine-ui, however I am not at all happy with it. Today I have been playing with Gxine, and running on the 2.6.21.7 kernel it runs ok. Regarding the full-screen problem, as long as you remember to maximise the window first, then it goes into full-screen (has anyone told the developers about that?). I don't know why the kernel would make any difference, and I can't recall what the problems were but I think running on the 2.6.23.x and 2.6.24.x kernels Gxine has some extra problems. But, for the 2.6.21.7 kernel it's fine.

It doesn't sound to me like Gxine beat Xine-ui because of size. I don't think Barry is that obsessed with size that a few hundred KB would drive such a big decision anyway Smile

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aragon

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1698
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 03:30    Post subject:  

@MustardMan

FullScreen in GXine: If i remember right, you first have to maximize the window of gxine and then choose full screen.

Musicbox: You might try

mpd/gmpc: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=22949
wxmusic: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=8314
pmusic: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=31206
aqualung: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=31689

if they got vizualisation-plugins, i don't know.

cheers
aragon

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10988
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 03:38    Post subject:  

disciple wrote:
Oh yeah - presumably you checked they were using the same output driver settings as well?

From memory I think Mplayer uses similar resources to VLC. But I think it has a better chance of getting into Puppy because it isn't absolutely HUGE when you manage to compile it with shared ffmpeg. In fact it isn't much bigger than Xine-lib + Gxine. Mplayer's main weaknesses are that the gui isn't a focus, and audio CD and DVDnav support aren't great. It has a truly superior browser plugin though.
I wonder if Pmusic can play CDs...

BTW
Quote:
Those who have been following the Dingo saga will know that it has been difficult to find a media player that is truly satisfactory. Alpha7 has Xine-ui, however I am not at all happy with it. Today I have been playing with Gxine, and running on the 2.6.21.7 kernel it runs ok. Regarding the full-screen problem, as long as you remember to maximise the window first, then it goes into full-screen (has anyone told the developers about that?). I don't know why the kernel would make any difference, and I can't recall what the problems were but I think running on the 2.6.23.x and 2.6.24.x kernels Gxine has some extra problems. But, for the 2.6.21.7 kernel it's fine.

It doesn't sound to me like Gxine beat Xine-ui because of size. I don't think Barry is that obsessed with size that a few hundred KB would drive such a big decision anyway Smile


There have been numerous error complaints about the latest VLC 9.0,
I could compile 8.6h fine, The last one I did compile/release was 8.6h it was 10MB pet including 5 MB wxgtk now if I recompile it say using QT, I could bring it down to around 5.5MB pet, I actually did compile vlc 9.0 with QT4 and it was 5.5 but the dvd wouldn't play properly, But xvid, divx,mp3's, and other did work fine, I'll look at recompiling 8.6h in the near future, Just kind of busy at the moment with Firefox
ttuuxxx

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magerlab

Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 13:17    Post subject:  

please try out audacious also and maybe alsaplayer

what i ususually do is open music folder in rox then select all files and open with madplay( just add madplay to open with...) or ogg123 and have music in background while reading a book on eee pc

maybe if we can have a simple gui frontend for madplay it woulbe nice.

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6702
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 18:04    Post subject:  

Actually, VLC IS looking pretty good. Apparently it has midi and CD-text and some VCD menu support now. What are its browser plugin and its playlist like now?
Are you compiling VLC with shared ffmpeg to get it that small Ttuuxxx?

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clarf


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 614
Location: The old Lone Wolf

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 19:14    Post subject:  

disciple wrote:

From memory I think Mplayer uses similar resources to VLC. But I think it has a better chance of getting into Puppy because it isn't absolutely HUGE when you manage to compile it with shared ffmpeg. In fact it isn't much bigger than Xine-lib + Gxine. Mplayer's main weaknesses are that the gui isn't a focus, and audio CD and DVDnav support aren't great. It has a truly superior browser plugin though.


Mplayer have some very good front ends that could be incorporated to a pet, my favorite is Smplayer it´s just fantastic, fast, bug free, great GUI, easy integration with mplayer, etc.

Did i mentioned that i was one of the most voted Open Source projects in Sourceforge 2008 Community Choice Award, in the category: "Best Project for Multimedia" http://ir.corp.sourceforge.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=82629&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1171836&highlight=, The winer was VLC...
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1752
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 21:47    Post subject:  

Yes to Xine...No to MPlayer. Xine will play on low end computers, MPlayer needs at least 500 or 600 MHz. Xine has a better, easier to use gui. Generally, Xine does more, has more options.
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3794

PostPosted: Wed 01 Oct 2008, 22:15    Post subject:  

@disciple, VLC looks good to me too (the picture is 0.9.2). First, there is the very low cpu usage, half of xine's and one-quarter of gxine's in my measurements. Also, it is under active development. Third, it looks good. And it could play everything if it was properly setup (supposedly). If a few people could collaborate on building and testing maybe it could be an item of distinction for puppy. Imho a project like that needs a group of developers and testers to catch everything and make it right. I noticed that ttuuxx has already been in contact with plinej about compiling ffmpeg. I would be happy to test.

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