Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Sun 08 Dec 2019, 05:27
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Need suggestions for installation type
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 2 [26 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
_MegadetH_

Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 06:27    Post subject:  Need suggestions for installation type  

Hi! I'm new to Puppy Linux. I think it's very good and fast, better than Xubuntu.
I have a pentium III 650 Mhz with 320Mb ram.

1) Which installation type is better for my computer? I'd like to install to hard disc to run without cd inserted.

2) After the Hd installation will my system run faster or lower than boot cd live?

3) I'd like to know there are advantages or not having an hd installation.

thanks in advance
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2811
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 07:01    Post subject: Re: Need suggestions for installation type  

_MegadetH_ wrote:
Hi! I'm new to Puppy Linux. I think it's very good and fast, better than Xubuntu.
I have a pentium III 650 Mhz with 320Mb ram.

1) Which installation type is better for my computer? I'd like to install to hard disc to run without cd inserted.

2) After the Hd installation will my system run faster or lower than boot cd live?

3) I'd like to know there are advantages or not having an hd installation.

thanks in advance


_MegadetH,

A full HD installation is likely to be the fastest however the frugal install is by far the easiest to maintain. The frugal will be faster than the CD boot. 4.1RC boots on my machine in just under 30 seconds.

_________________
Software <-> Distros <-> Tips <-> Newsletters
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
_MegadetH_

Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 07:18    Post subject: Re: Need suggestions for installation type  

smokey01 wrote:

_MegadetH,

A full HD installation is likely to be the fastest however the frugal install is by far the easiest to maintain. The frugal will be faster than the CD boot. 4.1RC boots on my machine in just under 30 seconds.



which machine do you have? With my PIII 650mhz 320mb ram will frugal installation run well?

I read frugal install saves everything into a single file called pup_save.2fs. For example if I download new mp3s or other files they'll store into pup_save.2fs. Is it possible to browse inside pup_save.2fs to copy for example an mp3 to external hd?

thanx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11775
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 07:37    Post subject:  

_MegadetH wrote:
I read frugal install saves everything into a single file called pup_save.2fs. For example if I download new mp3s or other files they'll store into pup_save.2fs. Is it possible to browse inside pup_save.2fs to copy for example an mp3 to external hd?
If you download a file, mp3 or other, there is no need to store it in the pup_save first. I download directly outside the pup_save.
The same for saving doc's, spreadsheets, etc.. they are all outside my pup_save.
I use the pup_save for installation of new programs mainly.

_________________
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
_MegadetH_

Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 08:01    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
_MegadetH wrote:
I read frugal install saves everything into a single file called pup_save.2fs. For example if I download new mp3s or other files they'll store into pup_save.2fs. Is it possible to browse inside pup_save.2fs to copy for example an mp3 to external hd?
If you download a file, mp3 or other, there is no need to store it in the pup_save first. I download directly outside the pup_save.
The same for saving doc's, spreadsheets, etc.. they are all outside my pup_save.
I use the pup_save for installation of new programs mainly.


I think I will make a frugal installation. If I've understood well with frugal, if one day I'll have a problem with the system, I can restore it loading pup_save and I will have again all configurated programs I've installed before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5501
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 08:44    Post subject:  

Oh no, double posting rears its ugly head again. John seems to be sunning himself in San Tropez - haven't had a response from him to any of my missives recently. Save me a red-head, John....
Last edited by Sage on Sun 28 Sep 2008, 08:46; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5501
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 08:44    Post subject:  

Bad choice. FULL installation will boot and run more reliably and you won't have to worry about juggling with compressed files if you decide you need bigger allocations, w.h.y. FULL installations respond to UPGRADE through the PUI. You are not short of memory and presumably not short of hard disc space. When you work with plain, simple files that are only compressed by inherent HD algorithms, you always know what you've got. Keep .sfs filing and frugal installs for liveCD and keyfob deployments. All the arguments have been aired here countless times. If you haven't researched the foregoing now would be an excellent time to review the pros & cons.
Perhaps you're not old enough to remember the wonders that were DriveSpace and the third party clones?!
Don't forget the swap partition.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
_MegadetH_

Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 09:33    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
Bad choice. FULL installation will boot and run more reliably and you won't have to worry about juggling with compressed files if you decide you need bigger allocations, w.h.y. FULL installations respond to UPGRADE through the PUI. You are not short of memory and presumably not short of hard disc space. When you work with plain, simple files that are only compressed by inherent HD algorithms, you always know what you've got. Keep .sfs filing and frugal installs for liveCD and keyfob deployments. All the arguments have been aired here countless times. If you haven't researched the foregoing now would be an excellent time to review the pros & cons.
Perhaps you're not old enough to remember the wonders that were DriveSpace and the third party clones?!
Don't forget the swap partition.


I have an 8gb hard disc, I hope it's enough for a full installation and installing some additional programs.
You said full installations respond to Upgrade through the PUI. I think it was for this reason when I installed Amsn from Live cd it didn't run.
I'm sorry I don't know DriveSpace.

Edit: I'm still confused to choose the installation type... in this site http://www.puppylinux.org/manuals/puppy-40/english/how-install-puppy/installation I found that is "recommend Frugal Installation, if you have 256 MB RAM or more. If you have less than 256 MB RAM you should choose Full Installation." I have 320Mb so if the site is right frugal could be better, but they don't explain why is reccomended. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
muggins

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 6756
Location: hobart

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 17:20    Post subject:  

@_MegadetH_,

you've got 320M RAM & 8G of hard disk space so, if you wanted to experiment, you can install both to the same partition & compare.

Keep in mind that puppy is small, and quick to install. Seasoned pupsters install puppy in something like 10-15 minutes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11775
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 17:37    Post subject:  

_MegadetH_
As a test I did a full install on a virtual machine (qemu)
The HDD is 6GB and puppy only takes 376MB.
So plenty of room left.

Unfortunately I can't do a full install of puppy on my laptop.
So I did choose the frugal type with the pup_save file.

But I have had issues with the pup_save.
It has to be increased in size (I had to go to 1.5GB a certain moment)
And I have had corruption also.

So if you go frugal, take a backup of the pup_save often.

As Sage says, full install is more reliable.

_________________
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Bruce B

Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11488
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 20:06    Post subject: Re: Need suggestions for installation type  

_MegadetH_ wrote:

With my PIII 650mhz 320mb ram will frugal installation run well?


The frugal will use more ram. The amount of ram it uses above the full install is easy enough to determine. Regardless of the extra ram it uses, that amount is ram you cannot use.

I also have file system considerations. You have to mount the host file system and then mount the pup_save file system. Which ever is the slowest device/filesystem in this combination is the maximum file system speed.

_________________
New! Puppy Linux Links Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
_MegadetH_

Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 21:01    Post subject:  

@muggins,
Thnks! I'd like to try both installations on the same partition, but once I installed them how can I choose to load "frugal" or "full" on boot?


@Béèm,
thank you very much for the test you did! you gave useful infos Smile

@Bruce B
thanks! I'm thinking choose full installation, but in future there will be the problem to upgrade, if a new puppylinux will be released. They say full installation is hard to upgrade to new version.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Bruce B

Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11488
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 21:12    Post subject:  

_MegadetH_,

The Full has a upgrade option.

Going back to the Windows 9x days, the worst installations I had were upgrades. Second worst installations were installing Microsoft's patches.

Habits were formed. I don't upgrade. I'll take a clean install any day of the week.

When I make a clean install, there are files I will want to move over. A clean install does not mean the destruction of the previous install. I leave the old one in place for a while, until I'm satisfied there is nothing I want from the previous install.

Bruce

_________________
New! Puppy Linux Links Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15550
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 21:20    Post subject:  

Quote:
Seasoned pupsters install puppy in something like 10-15 minutes.


It is even quicker than that if you do nothing more than run from CD / DVD
which is very fast on the 4.1rc

HD booting was 10 seconds faster last time I checked
on slower computers or CD booting or computers with low ram
that margin might be more - your system is fast enoght to boot from CD

In my early days with Puppy I was keen to have a dedicated HD to install Puppy to.

For the last few years with Puppy I have never bothered with this HD approach and I have been using Puppy exclusively for aprox 4 years now . . .

You can run and save to CD / DVD (multisession)
however I boot from DVD and save some data in my 'personal storage file' but most stuff goes to the HD

on mnt/home I also keep a bookmarks.html
which I load into the browser to complete a setup

Any extra programs I add from my list
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=DingoAddons

The advantages of CD/DVD booting include:

1. HD can be used to boot Windows or another Linux
without any potential problems associated with partitioning
2. Base OS and programs are completely secure
3. Different configs can still be saved to HD and booted from if one becomes corrupt
4. Puplets can be tested (use 'puppy pfix=ram' during 'boot') without HD install

Whatever you choose
Puppy is different. Faster Simpler, more flexible.
Have fun Smile

_________________
Puppy on Raspberry Pi Release Candidate Cool
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5501
Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 29 Sep 2008, 03:51    Post subject:  

Quote:
in future there will be the problem to upgrade


Now, let's get this straight - this is total nonsense. I've really no idea from whence it originates? The PUI can upgrade a FULL installation - it is written into its menu (but not very obvious, as it only pops up halfway through the procedure). Or upgrading occurs automatically upon running a new CD, vide supra, (although I've found this to be less reliable in some circumstances). The only thing that doesn't work properly is the GRUB update which might affect subsequent rebooting. Three solutions are possible until this is fixed:

don't run GRUB update
run new GRUB install
save the old GRUB file and recycle this one (folks wary of using pfix=ram and text editors, can write the contents of their present <menu.lst> on a piece of paper with a pencil{remember those?} and edit the GRUB file on-screen at boot up simply by pressing 'e' {for 'edit'}).

The last option is probably best for those with complex GRUB files and/or multiple boot options.

Puppy, along with most of these compact liveCD distros is intended to be run from the CD. There are both advantages and penalties in doing this. _MegadetH_ seems to have found only one thread out of thousands?, well hundreds of threads in which all aspects of this issue have been discussed. In the event, I have discovered significant advantages in using FULL installations. But, I have access to about 100 surviving old HDs - anything from ~540Mb up to ~80Gb, a few with bad sectors written out, but still reliably functional!! Early on in this exercise, I also discovered that Barry, and one or two other compact distros, had constructed his code in a way that ensured that HD s could be freely swapped between virtually all boards and cards that come my way on an almost weekly basis. This is an incredible asset for my operations in contradistinction to the mid- and major distros, which invariably fall over at the slightest HW mod.
As others have pointed out, data and other personal stuff can be saved to other directories, other partitions, other media or printed to hard copy, in extremis.
In conclusion, correspondents like, but certainly not limited to, _MegadetH_ would benefit even more by researching his queries in much greater detail before raising contention expressed therein as it relates to his specific issues. Any road up, there you have it _MegadetH_. We look forward to reading the outcome(s) of your endeavours.

Now I have some of my own: _MegadetH_ - is this a contraction of _Megadeath_? A gamer? Is there a special significance to the capitalisation of the 'H'? An initial from his name, perhaps? Am I correct in assuming the underscoring is an anti-scanner ploy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 2 [26 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0652s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0077s) ][ GZIP on ]