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The time now is Sat 25 May 2013, 04:24 All times are UTC - 4 |
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements |
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Puppy 5.0 "New Hope"
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga |
 
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cb88
 Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 1160 Location: USA |
@aj i was referring more to lack of other processor ports more than lack of stability which knowing arch im sure it has plenty stability I have been hearing rumors of other processor ports maybe arm and i think they have started x64 already _________________ Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater. BeOS Max-Vectorgamma: Tyan thund 2 512 ram 2x PII 300 Vectorsigma (laptop): Gentoo Athlon II X2 2Ghz 4Gb ram radeon 4200 mesa-git |
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big_bass
 Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 1736 |
jason1308 you are correct about
which means the future priorities for puppy are very different. Personally I have a TI 85 calculator that I trust and use for any real calculations so if puppy has a calculator or not it wont get used by me anyway thats trivial nonsence I agree if a practical simple calculator is needed now they can even be found in a dollar store next..... icons are another thing that are not on my top ten list they can be included in a pet package for who ever would like to use them *added on later and any fancy theme should never cause the window manager to become unstable there are many talented artist here that already make pet packages you can add on later so this area is covered just fine and they can also be easily removed or updated at the authors discretion next...
yes ,thats a valid point if puppy was based on an installed OS and it was just one version that grows but every puppy iso has its own issues to sort out which can take months of labor just sorting those issues out even for those who use puppy as their main OS but since puppy is a live CD .. by design it is quickly outdated now here's the good part 
in the past this wasn't a problem we *had (still have, but is shifting his focus on another project) someone to just sort out these complex issues and just do it now most of the bickering here in the forum is self inflicted if you walk into a room and start telling people ok now I am running the show dont be surprised to come up against resistance to say the least or a tainted reputation some people will hold their peace others wont so what you are seeing is really just a result of a bad behavior pattern
why does that work now because people do what they love to do and support the version they love to use that simple and by making everything 100% modular add what you want to whatever version you want we ALL do work together and nobody is really in charge
a solution? let open source be just that open free and follow open source rules that worked on so many other great projects dont lock any forums dont make a special puppy club of only a hand full of people you limit creativity keep the door open you meet new friends if two people work on a community edition isnt that a puplet? and shouldnt it be called so ? some established concepts are quite strange to me big_bass |
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cb88
Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 1160 Location: USA |
I'm right with you there on most of that big_bass except the calculator part LOL! sure i trust my 86 but i don't keep in my back pocket all the time 
basically i think we are moving toward no official releases but yes on official base to build from at least hopefully anyway there is WAY too much duplication on the part of tombh and leachim that just isn't getting into mainstream puppy in the video card detection area _________________ Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater. BeOS Max-Vectorgamma: Tyan thund 2 512 ram 2x PII 300 Vectorsigma (laptop): Gentoo Athlon II X2 2Ghz 4Gb ram radeon 4200 mesa-git |
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alcy
Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 144 |
Arch is _not based_ on CRUX. And if pacman should be used, why then use Puppy. I am pretty sure pacman will give better performance on Arch than Puppy. |
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alienjeff
 Joined: 08 Jul 2006 Posts: 2290 Location: Winsted, CT - USA |
@alcy Thank you. I stand corrected. Original edited in the interest of accuracy. _________________ hangout: ##arch-ftw on irc.freenode.net diversion: http://alienjeff.net - visit The Fringe quote: "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker |
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janrocks
Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 2 |
Hi AJ Good to see you still taking the usual active and provocative interest. My $0.02 (for what it is worth as a user back to 0.8beta which never wanted to run without fun)
That is so very true. As a mainstream debian user I find ubuntu to be (honestly) a pretty big pile of doo doo. As a puppy user I like the way it's small and sleek (but what happened to lspci returning intelligible output) and will run on just about any old/new/broken/crashed hunk of junk I get called to look at with minimal fuss and bother. While 4.x is very nice with pretties and good usability I think the path has been lost somewhere along the line between what the "average" user wants and what the "community" badger for. I think package managers have their place.. but puppy already has one of sorts.. or is it? Having had a TinyME machine morph into pclinux and get bogged down with bloat recently due to dependencies nightmares I don't really like the thought of using a major distros repos.. they will assume it is a normal release and either break everything or bloat it up with 50MB dependencies and the like. I didn't want KDE on TinyME.. but I got it because of some dependency from a media player!! For me puppy is something I carry around to use in day to day investigations of hardware/connections/busted Microsoft machines... I don't care if it is pretty, I just want it to work first time.. and that's why my small gripe about lspci and alien output.. Something happened in the graphics hardware packages from 3 to 4 as well. Systems which will run wonderfully on 3 black screen on 4.. I wonder why that is. Firefox?.. nah.. I also prefer seamonkey for it's cleanliness and low overheads. I don't think following ubuntu into the world of USA restrictions and patents will be a step forwards.. especially as it seems to be driven by the "need" to have a particular browser. Most of the other comments about what should and should not be included would be better served if the people who wanted them moved over to pclinux and it's derivatives. (which has them all already) For me puppy has always been small and light. A minimal run from ram live distro to get things done on whatever hardware you are sitting looking at. As for different architecture forks.. fine.. whatever.. 3 and 4 will run happily on amd64 machines and dual/quad intel things.. only oddballs like me have sparc, and we can always cobble our own together if we need to. That's my bit.. I feel that for overall usability 3.13/4 were the best releases to date.. since then something has gone astray, though I can't quite put my finger on what. Sometimes looking back to what was very good, if not that polished and finding out why it was so good can be more productive than always driving forward regardless of the price. I get confused too by the pup and puplet packages.. Why is that so? Can't they all just be filed under "puppy packages" and leave it at that? I want to be able to tell people "download puppy and give it a spin.. see if xxxx bit of hardware works properly and then get back to me".. which with 3.x I could do with confidence and with 4.x I'm not so sure... xorg seems to have issues. Above all I think puppy should keep it's individuality.. merging into the larger distros because of available packages would be very sad, and would certainly lose the casual user and newbie alike.. Why use puppy when you may as well install XXXX the parent mainstream version? hehehehe.. sorry.. but true eh? Remember for every community member/forum poster there are probably 100 happy casual users like me who know what we are dong enough to make good use of the releases, test them and come to our own conclusions about functionality and ease of use for a particular situation and piece of hardware. So what do I want? A browser Text editor Media player (not for listening to music or watching films.. more to test said hardware works) Wireless drivers (more than anything else.. good wireless hardware support.. dongles as well as onboard) Easy to navigate menus where things stay under the same heading from release to release.. unless there is a very good reason for them to move... (damn you debian) And above all.. user friendliness.. A nice simple"run live cd" or "install" at the very start would be nice.. and please pick one installation or the other. Either frugal or full.. but not both maybe? Most people I know balk at the boot options screen on startup. That was supposed to be a few quick notes.. funny how once we get started it can go on and on.. Now guys, don't think in any way I'm being critical of puppy.. It's a great little distro. I just think sometimes it's most useful to hear the outsiders and casual users point of view on where things seem to be going and how the distro feels through it's many incarnations. |
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yorkiesnorkie
 Joined: 04 Jun 2007 Posts: 505 Location: George's Island |
Well, as usual you've caught me napping on this one. Er, ah, well. No. A lot of what I read in the forum is brilliant but I see no real reason to suddenly jump revisions to please some number counter at distrowatch. While I've been intrigued by the Puppy variants basically what I want is something stable, that works. I'd prefer if we stuck with the 4 series, and enhanced it, adding functionality and working out bugs. From a layman's point of view I believe the more we go astray as a group the more confusing it will be to anyone coming in. Don't confuse me more than I am already! For those of you who can make your own Puppy variants (you guys are brilliant) it would be more useful to we remaining luddites if you could also develop packages which do x, which if loaded by users of the base Puppy 4.x package upgrade it to whatever functionality you've created/enhanced. Its a bit droll I know. While Seamonkey may not be some people's cup of tea, it is a great little package that covers what I need. I'd hate to see it replaced. Puppy is not Ubuntu thank you! Greg 
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alienjeff
Joined: 08 Jul 2006 Posts: 2290 Location: Winsted, CT - USA |
@janrocks Hey man! Good to see you again and thanks for the well thought out observations and passionate plea. @multitude Some good points have been raised. Bugman is well suited with 1.xx. A few of us are 2.xx devotees. BigBass and ttuuxxx thrive on 3.xx. And others like to walk barefoot across the vertical edge of razors that currently are 4.1 alphas, betas and RCs. Several things drive these personal decisions, one of which is hardware on hand. The something that happened along the way janrocks mused about came around the time of the mini-laptops, or so it seems. Older kernels and Puppy releases didn't play well with newer boxes and boxettes. And choices of kernels for a given distro version is not a cure all. Sooner or later, someone is going to have to make a hard decision and decide where in the PC evolutionary line Puppy will start working and where it will end. And this "window" is akin to the cursor on a sliderule. As time moves on, so does the position of this "support and development cursor." What's really sad is the mass dog-in-heat panting over new Puppy releases and so few interested in fixing, polishing and bullet-proofing an existing release. _________________ hangout: ##arch-ftw on irc.freenode.net diversion: http://alienjeff.net - visit The Fringe quote: "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker |
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ttuuxxx
 Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
I've always figured that the series was short lived, Shouldn't it had Gslapt installed by default? Also when Gslapt was installed and you selected update all packages, it would cripple the system, finding out what incompatibilities still were missing and had them fixed would of been one step closer to bullet-proofing it. Maybe a hybrid package manager? Series 4.0 I found was mostly compatible with Ubuntu Gutsy same glibC plus qt4 can use qt3 applications. Never had a crash trying out Gutsy packages on puppy 4.0 Maybe move closer ? One one the things that using these version with the latest software is that the compilers are dated, and need a few updates also, A lot of times when I'm compiling I get a error screen about version too old and please update. To resurrect any of the older version, the first step would be updating the Devx wireless networking, screen resolution for small Laptops . Updating the 3 series would be a great start, maybe to 12.1 Slackware ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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clarf
 Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 606 Location: The old Lone Wolf |
You really know how i am feeling now... I would like to see some work/fixes done in 2.14 R reflected in 2.16 and 2.17, even some 2.16 CE additions/changes made by tronkel could be good (the long long waited CE release). In some way i feel like i lose the product live support in my Puppy... When i feel like it, sometimes i search for my Puppy Service Pack but i can´t find it... |
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big_bass
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 1736 |
Hey alienjeff
you should have version 2.12 bullet proofed and missile proofed by now
the most important thing to fixing anything is good documentation and well written comments in code or else it all becomes a big plate of sticky over cooked Spaghetti code so my request is a modular approach everything in pet packages all fixes compared to the official version completely documented in a change log all added packages in puplets have the *.files so you can track down everything that was installed all tweaks well documented and a goal to create a rock solid stable version or why not all a stable 2.13----4.?????????? then take your pick 
big_bass |
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ttuuxxx
Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
updates are great, but should they have a new format like "mut" the reason why, it would make it easier to find, Plus it could have a separate routine, Like every time the puppy package manager sees a "mut" file it search to see if a earlier one was previously installed, then it automatically uninstalls it and installs the new fix/patch? you can't just have a patch, patchig a patch, could lead to some sort of file corruption, maybe some sort of code included in the name like networkupdate-0004-v.01 and the next would be networkupdate-0004-v.02, when you install mut it sees a common 4 digit number and uninstalls 0004-01 then installs 0004-02 ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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ttuuxxx
Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
I was thinking about puppy 1.08 and went to download, but I didn't see the devx compiler anywhere? Anybody know where I might find this? ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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cb88
Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 1160 Location: USA |
ttuuxxx im pretty sure puppy was using cramfs back then... so it wouldn't be an sfs i don't think that has been a while back most of the older stuff is on caneri's server at least what is still around _________________ Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater. BeOS Max-Vectorgamma: Tyan thund 2 512 ram 2x PII 300 Vectorsigma (laptop): Gentoo Athlon II X2 2Ghz 4Gb ram radeon 4200 mesa-git |
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MU
 Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 13642 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany |
http://puppyisos.org/isos/Puppylinux-official/1.0.8r1/development/ user: puppy password: linux mirror: http://puptrix.org/isos/Puppylinux-official/1.0.8r1/development/ Mark _________________ my recommended links |
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