Muppy 008.4c (final release)

[MU]

otropogo

I don't know, what exactly is wrong with the drive, but the log you posted, contains:

<3> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 641
<3> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 642
<3> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 643

So obviously something is wrong with hdc.
maybe the drive itself, maybe the DVD, or maybe a bug in the firmware with some special codesequences in Muppy.

I just could post wild guesses without profound background.

So I suggest to see it from the practical point of view.
Copy msy_084.sfs as described above to your disk.
This should allow, to exclude potential errors with the CD drive.
If it works now, you have at least a working solution, and we know, that there is some error with DVDs in seldom cases.
If anybody then has an idea, how to encircle the error further, please let us know.

Mark

[Sage]

So if you use a Mini for full installation, you must copy them by hand.
Boot from CD.
Click on the zdrv_084.msy to mount it.
Copy all the files in it to your harddrive.

Experiencing some more problems. The zdrv_084.msy file shows as a blue&white triangle on its apex with a '?' inside. I cannot get access to it - 'already in use'. Tried to access it from the otherwise OK install on HD, but the optical drives won't show in MUT. Seem to be some circularity in this approach.

[MU]

sage,
copy it to somewhere else with a different name, like /root/x.sfs.
Then you can mount that one.
Alternative in the shell:
mkdir /root/mount
mount -o loop zmsy_084.sfs /root/mount
Mark

[tlchost]

The english 2 GigaByte DVD is available for download, but as mentioned above, untested!

Let me know how it works, I cannot test it myself before weekend.

I've downloaded it 3 times, and burned it 3 times to fresh DVD+RW

The results are

moutning /dev/hdb on mnt/data failed
writing mnt/tmpfs/msy-084.sfs no space left on device.

Thom

[purple_ghost]

Like otropogo I seem to see oddities in starting the new mini Muppy 8.4C Final from a DVD burner. I tried pfix=ram, only to get error message like, image not found in kernel. Only after some time I realized I should have entered puppy 'pfix=ram'

The more I think I know the more I forget. Never try to solve a computer problem before coffee.

MU: Mini Muppy 8.4C final looks very nice. Congratulations.

[otropogo]

otropogo

I don't know, what exactly is wrong with the drive, but the log you posted, contains:

<3> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 641
<3> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 642
<3> Buffer I/O error on device hdc, logical block 643

So obviously something is wrong with hdc.
maybe the drive itself, maybe the DVD, or maybe a bug in the firmware with some special codesequences in Muppy.

I just could post wild guesses without profound background.

So I suggest to see it from the practical point of view.
Copy msy_084.sfs as described above to your disk.
This should allow, to exclude potential errors with the CD drive.
If it works now, you have at least a working solution, and we know, that there is some error with DVDs in seldom cases.
If anybody then has an idea, how to encircle the error further, please let us know.

Mark

Ok. I've followed your instructions as follows - please advise if I've missed or misunderstood something...

1. I burned the md5sum checked Muppy LiveCD ISO once more to DVD+RW with Burniso2cd

2. Burniso2cd verified the burn as "good"

3. I copied msy_084.sfs to the same drive, partition and folder where the msyxxx.2fs files are written by Muppy (/mnt/home on hda1)

4. I booted MuppyLiveCD from the DVD burner

5. I selected a previously made msyxxx.2fs save to load

And got exactly the same (non-verbose) message as with all previous attempts using the English LiveCd and LiveDVD:

Kernel panic: Attempted to kill initd.

6. I cold booted the system, again with the Muppy LiveCD

7. selected "0" (no save file) from the save menu

8. Muppy loaded and ran fine (as on EVERY other attempt to load without the msyxxx.2fs file - must be at least 30 consecutive successful boots by now)

9. configured the desktop

10. selected reboot and selected save to hd1

11. cold booted the hung system with the MuppyLiveCD

12. selected the freshly written msyxxx.2fs file from the save menu

Kernel Panic: Attempted to kill initd.

So - is the problem still "obviously" with my burner or its media? Or is it time for Plan B?


PS. It would surely be helpful if there were a "verbose" boot option, with screen-by screen stepping, when loading Muppy.

Also, pardon my ignorance, but why would Muppy need to use the I/O buffer on a CD/DVD drive (aka hdc) when loading an msyxxx.2fs file into RAM from the hard drive (hda1)?

And how could that possibly work if the LiveCD were being loaded from a read-only CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive?

[MU]

just to clarify:
I used no rw media, but a normal DVDR.
When I burned it, I selected to close and fixate it in pburn.
I did not select multisession.

Maybe that could play a role.

But it should not, as otropogo now tried to use a msy_084.sfs on the harddrive.

Puppy has a verbose option, but I did not use it for a long time, so I am not certain, that it helps you.
At startup, type:
puppy loglevel=7

At moment, I'm clueless what causes that problem, as it works fine here

Mark

[Jim1911]

Mark,

Thanks for a fine distribution which I've been using in a frugal installation since you posted it . Everything I've checked has been very stable except for the Gnome Place menu problems identified with the beta.

I did have trouble with your megapack_084.sfs giving problems with many gnome applications. I was using it to have the capability to switch primarily between KDE and Gnome Desktops and use Open Office. Rather than downloading the megapack again, though, I used your SFS-combiner to combine the OO sfs and addons sfs which allowed me to have KDE, Gnome, and OO loaded. With the new sfs everything that I've tried has worked except for the Gnome Places menu. Sorry that I can't help you get that straightened out, it's way beyond my skill level. I'll download the megapack again and post the results.

Thanks again,

Jim

System: Dell Demension, Pent 4 at 2.40GHz, 1.5GB ram, 128 MB ATI Radeon 9700 Pro graphics card, Soundblaster Live audio

[MU]

Also, pardon my ignorance, but why would Muppy need to use the I/O buffer on a CD/DVD drive (aka hdc) when loading an msyxxx.2fs file into RAM from the hard drive (hda1)?

The DVD is not running in Ram, as long as you do not ave 2.5 GB or more.
So when it tries to access the savefile, it might load a driver or script from the DVD.
Here a I/O error might appear.
That was my initial thought, but obviously I was wrong...
Mark

[otropogo]

Also, pardon my ignorance, but why would Muppy need to use the I/O buffer on a CD/DVD drive (aka hdc) when loading an msyxxx.2fs file into RAM from the hard drive (hda1)?

The DVD is not running in Ram, as long as you do not ave 2.5 GB or more.

Just to clear up any confusion. Although I'm booting from a DVD+RW disc (since I have no 800MB CDs), ever since my first few failures with the Muppy LiveDVD while loading 2fs files, I've been doing all of my tests only with the 800MB Muppy "LiveCD".

How much RAM does that require? My system has 512MB available.

BTW - just to be absolutely sure (I was fairly certain already, both from the impression of loading speed and the sound of my DVD drive), I rebooted the LiveCD twice more, and timed the interval from boot prompt to fully loaded default desktop:

w/o msy_084.sfs on hda1 4 minutes 24 seconds

with msy_084.sfs on hda1 1 minute 48 seconds

One interesting difference: loading completely from the DVD disk, I have an "icebox" tab flashing in the taskbar,; when loading with hard drive assist, this tab is missing.

Some other observations of possible interest:

1.The folder that 2fs files are saved to is named /mnt/home in Puppy 4.0, but /dev/hda1 in Muppy when loaded completely from CD/DVD, and /initrd/mnt/dev_ro2 when msy_084.sfs is loaded from hard drive(?)

2. all pet, sfs, iso, 2fs, img, sys, bak, and dev_ro files are depicted by a blue diamond with a question mark in Muppy

3. on the default icwm desktop, there are three hard drive icons, two are simply named "mnt", the third is "hda3'. The two "mnt"s show the same folder "/initrd/mnt (Thumbs)"

I was able to load my last screensave from sda1 into Opera, but couldn't find my previous screensave to /mnt/hda1. I finally discovered the file's new path by clicking on Rox in MUT (intrd/mnt/dev_ro2), and then tried to load it into Opera. As you will see, it loads only as a download, not as a posted image.

My (very uneducated) guess is that there is some problem with Muppy's filesystem management.

[MU]

otropogo

1.) this is all correct.
Puppy uses these layers in /initrd to mount systemfiles.

One interesting difference: loading completely from the DVD disk, I have an "icebox" tab flashing in the taskbar,; when loading with hard drive assist, this tab is missing.

This is a timing issue with the slow DVD drive.
If you click on the tab, it should be hidden.

2. all pet, sfs, iso, 2fs, img, sys, bak, and dev_ro files are depicted by a blue diamond with a question mark in Muppy

Yes, Muppy now uses themable iconsets, that use the standard names from Gnome compatible iconthemes.
You can change an icontheme with the Gtk-Themechoosr in the Desktop menu.
There are many Gnome compatible iconthemes, but only very few for the Puppyspecific solution.
So Muppy will support the Gnomethemes from now on.
Rox in Puppy had some custom icons for some devices.
I must sort out, where these can be redefined to use the Gnome icons.

3. on the default icwm desktop, there are three hard drive icons, two are simply named "mnt", the third is "hda3'. The two "mnt"s show the same folder "/initrd/mnt (Thumbs)"

This is a bug, that must be related to your special setup.
It will take a while to reproduce and correct that.

Thanks for your report!
Mark

[otropogo]

While running Muppy LiveCD (800MB version) loaded partly from the msy_084.sfs file saved to hard drive, I noticed that MUT showed an active eject button. This sort of made sense, since the system could access and load all the contents of the file on the hard drive.

So I clicked on the "eject" tab to see if it would work. And the disk ejected, without protest or any error messages on the desktop.

NB: although the system running was Muppy LiveCD-EN, the disk it was written to was a (Verbatim) DVD+RW, as will become significant later in the account.

The disk had been burned and verified by Burniso2cd in Puppy 4.0, but the "multisession" option had not been offered and when mounting the disk in Pmount under Puppy 4.0 or Windows, it appeared to have been burned "closed session", this was further indicated previously by two failed attempts to "save to CD".

I continued with my Muppy LiveCD session for some time, with the disk removed, and noticed no problems.

Then I decided to reboot and figured it would be prudent to reinsert the disk beforehand. So I opened the drive tray and replaced the disk, then chose "reboot" and saved the session to hard drive.

However, the system would not boot now. In fact, there was no sign of activity from the DVD drive. After several failed attempts, including a couple of cold starts, I put my Puppy 4.0 LiveCD in the drive and booted without a problem.

I then tried the following things with the DVD+RW

1 mounting with Pmount - error: unable to mount hdc

2. fast blanking with Pburn 2.0.2 - Pburn scrolled garbage on screen but showed no sign of progress

3. complete blanking with Pburn - Pburn locked up, had to be killed

4. reburn the ISO with Pburn - same result as #3

5. reburn the ISO with Burniso2cd - program locks up, but could be closed.

Looks to me as though Muppy tries to write to the DVD and succeeds enough to disable it. I wonder if this could also explain the kernel panic crash whenever trying to load mysxxx.2fs files?

[Sage]

copy it to somewhere else with a different name

Did that.

Copy all the files in it to your harddrive.

It contains a bunch of small .sh files and five directories /etc, /lib, /sbin, /usr and /var. Each of those contains its own selection of sub-directories and files. Excuse my dumbness but do I merge some or all? what? where? overwrite?
Or do I just rename the whole z.....sfs file back again and place it in /root or somewhere else?
Don't really understand what's going on here - I can copy a directory full of library files from A - B, ditto modules ditto, ditto drivers ditto - I understand all that but manipulating collections of compressed files and directories without knowing what they contain, their relevance and which should go where is just one bridge too far. Sorry - and thanks.

[MU]

Sage, if it was mounted to /mnt/test/
then you can copy like this:

Code: Select all

cp -ax /mnt/test/* /

Mark

[MU]

otropogo

ok, that might explain issues...
I must buy DVD-RWs on monday.
The local store where I just looked for them, had only DVD-Rs.
The shops are closed now until monday.
Mark

[Sage]

Sorry - now completely lost! You must be disappointed.
By a series of renaming, moving, cutting and pasting, I have managed to move the whole zdrv_084.sfs file onto the HD to which I've installed Mini. I have placed it in /tmp and /root, but presume it needs to be uncompressed and placed somewhere?

[Dpup]

Thanks to MU, Lobster, and the Pupeee creator. The Eee pup drivers are posted on the main Pupeee site. I installed them on Muppy Mini, and am able to now connect the Eee internal wireless to WPA2 TKIP router using Muppy Mini on a USB flash drive.

But it looks like more work is needed on video and other Eee specific features. Perhaps more technical Eee users will be able to do this.

[otropogo]

otropogo

ok, that might explain issues...
I must buy DVD-RWs on monday.
The local store where I just looked for them, had only DVD-Rs.
The shops are closed now until monday.
Mark

Achtung!

I'm using DVD+RW note the "+"

Furthermore, have just rerun the trials with a DVD+R disk, with some further interesting results:

1. tried to burn the Muppy LiveDVD (note "DVD", not "CD") to the DVD+R with Burniso2cd, but got some sort of "test error" message.

2. retried with Grafburn in Multisession mode, and after some delay, the burn started and Grafburn reported successful completion.

3. I booted from the DVD+R and tried loading an existing 2fs file from my first session with Muppy LiveDVD.

got the dreaded Kernel Panic crash

4. cold reboot, and this time chose option "0"

Muppy LiveDVD took just under 9 minutes from boot prompt to fully loaded default desktop

NB: no flashing icebox tab in the taskbar

5. noted that hda1 has icon on desktop

6. mounted drive and changed msy_084.bak to "sfs"

7. ran MUT, and noted DVD eject button shows active, but doesn't work

8. configured the desktop

9. chose "reboot system"

10. chose "save to hda1" for new 2fs file (in case the old one was corrupted) somehow

11. system rebooted ok

12. chose the freshly saved 2fs file to load

Kernel Panic...

13. cold booted system

14. chose "0" option

Muppy loaded from boot prompt to finished desktop in 1 minute 48 seconds, evidently using the sfs file (from the 800MB Muppy LiveCD) on hda1

Question, which version am I running now?

15. note that Mut now shows the eject button active, AND it works. I eject the disk and immediately replace it

16. note that MUT and the desktop now show the same drive information as with Muppy LiveCD mounted partly from hard drive reported last post

NB: IIRC, the diamond/question mark icons did not appear when Muppy loaded entirely from DVD, but they're there again now.

Big question: when Muppy is loaded from the MuppyLiveDVD on removable combined with the (much smaller) MuppyLiveCD msy_084.sfs file on hard drive (as in my currently running setup), does the user have access to the additional applications on the DVD?

If not, is there any way to make this possible?

I noticed that when Opera started up, it gave a couple of error messages, related to video functions IIRC.

[MU]

sage

ok, step by step...
copy zmsy_084.sfs to /root/, rename it to test.sfs
Now click on /root/test.sfs to mount it.
This mounts it as:
/mnt/+root+test.sfs

Now copy the files in that folder to your harddrive:

Code: Select all

cp-ax /mnt/+root+test.sfs/* /

Mark

[MU]

otropogo

Big question: when Muppy is loaded from the MuppyLiveDVD on removable combined with the (much smaller) MuppyLiveCD msy_084.sfs file on hard drive (as in my currently running setup), does the user have access to the additional applications on the DVD?

If not, is there any way to make this possible?

no, it will not use the additional files included in the DVD edition.
You had to replace it with the bigger msy_084.sfs from the DVD.

I wonder, why you still get the Kernel panics.
This leaves me even more clueless than before

Mark