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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
DAW possibility for Puppy
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jukingeo

Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Tue 22 Jul 2008, 09:55    Post subject:  DAW possibility for Puppy  

Hello all,

I am currently working on a JOrgan project for Puppy Linux and I found out that with the newest kernel for Puppy, it supports the real time mode when using Jack. With that in mind, I am wondering about about the feasibility of creating a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) with Puppy.

What I would like to know is if these programs would work together within Puppy:

Jack
Ardour (DAW recorder)
Rosegarden (Midi Sequencer)
Muse (DAW recorder)
Mixxx (DJ Mixing tool)
Patchage (Patchbay for Jack)
Hydrogen (Drum Sequencer)
Audacity (Audio Editor)
Sweep (Audio scrub editor)

Of course I can think of others, but i think the big guns here for me are Ardour, Audacity (or Sweep), Rosegarden, and Mixx.

Is that a can do in Puppy with real-time and up to 192khz recording capacity?

Thanx,

Geo
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aragon

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1698
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jul 2008, 03:55    Post subject:  

dear jukingeo,

maybe you try to search the forum

http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html

and you will find these applications.

cheers
aragon

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Jul 2008, 11:04    Post subject:  

Nathan was intending to make Grafpup more of a multimedia distro
Might be worth checking out . . .
http://www.grafpup.org/

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ggoode.sa

Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Johannesburg, South Afirca

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jul 2008, 11:31    Post subject:  

Hi Geo,

Some of these apps are available as PUPs from http://dotpups.de/dotpups/Multimedia/ (especially the /toddyjoes-music-apps directories). I haven't tried any of them yet, but it shows that others are creating usable Audio Apps so a DAW Puppy or SFS would be a great project for all of us to get involved with.

I've also just been granted storage space at Puppylinux.ca so we created a DAW directory (http://puppylinux.ca/members/DAW/) that contains pet installers for Jack, Qjackctl, Fluidsynth, Qsynth, LinuxSampler (and dependencies), and the beginning of an Aeolus install (I just need to put together the Stops package). These are all the apps I use for virtual pipe organ usage with jOrgan, MyOrgan (with WINE and wineasio), and Miditzer.

I'm currently writing a few web pages regarding how to install (with suggested install order), some of which should be finished this weekend. See grahamg.110mb.com for the draft [the installing jOrgan page has the most information so far]

For most of these I have used Slackware or Debian builds (converting them with Alien and tgz2zip) so there are a few instances where you need to create virtual links yourself. More information will eventually be available on the web pages.

I also want to try the other apps mentioned by Geo:
Ardour (DAW recorder)
Rosegarden (Midi Sequencer)
Muse (DAW recorder)
Mixxx (DJ Mixing tool)
Patchage (Patchbay for Jack)
Hydrogen (Drum Sequencer)
Audacity (Audio Editor)
Sweep (Audio scrub editor)

as well as Jack-Rack and azr3-jack (Hammond Organ emulator) so would appreciate help from anyone who is already using them.

Have fun!

GrahamG
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jukingeo

Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul 2008, 14:28    Post subject:  

Hello All,

I am sorry I didn't respond to your messages. Lately I been trying out 64Studio as a replacement for Ubuntu Studio. However, my experience there has been a nightmare.

To make a really long story short basically I found more problems with 64Studio within 3 hours than I did with Ubuntu Studio within a month.

Internet navigation was fairly slow and file manipulation was none intuitive.

But the biggest problem of all was that I had a huge problem with Grub because 64Studio used an older version that didn't like my dual boot, dual hard drive set up.

So with over a week of problems with 64Studio, I nixed it this morning.

I decided to stick with a multimedia solution that is well supported since that was a concern with 64Studio as well.

While I am considering going back to Ubuntu Studio, I did remember that I wanted to explore the option of going with a full install of Puppy and setting it up with all multi-media programs for audio/video editing.

So I found this thread and figured I would continue here where I left off.

So I am going to proceed to look at those links that you mentioned and I will be back here with more comments and questions.

Oh! And thank you for the responses.

Geo
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jukingeo

Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul 2008, 14:43    Post subject:  

Hello Graham,

I didn't even realized that you posted here because of what I was going through with trying to get 64Studio to run.

I wrote you a private email in regards to that ordeal and I did mention that I am probably going to investigate Puppy as a multimedia solution for my needs.

Well, anyway, I remembered my posts I made here in the Puppy forums and I figured I would come back to my old posts first and saw that you made a post here.

I made responses between yours below:


ggoode.sa wrote:
Hi Geo,

Some of these apps are available as PUPs from http://dotpups.de/dotpups/Multimedia/ (especially the /toddyjoes-music-apps directories). I haven't tried any of them yet, but it shows that others are creating usable Audio Apps so a DAW Puppy or SFS would be a great project for all of us to get involved with.


I will check out the links soon. I just came back here and saw all the links so I am going to check them out as soon as I catch up with old response I left behind here before I started my 64Studio ordeal.

Anyway I did want to ask you something. Since Puppy uses a different packaging system, you did show me a conversion program that will convert a .tar file to a .pet file. What happens if I come across a program I like that is a .bin file or a .deb file? Are there programs to convert these as well?

Quote:
I've also just been granted storage space at Puppylinux.ca so we created a DAW directory (http://puppylinux.ca/members/DAW/) that contains pet installers for Jack, Qjackctl, Fluidsynth, Qsynth, LinuxSampler (and dependencies), and the beginning of an Aeolus install (I just need to put together the Stops package). These are all the apps I use for virtual pipe organ usage with jOrgan, MyOrgan (with WINE and wineasio), and Miditzer.


Sounds great! I will take a peek there as well.

Quote:
I'm currently writing a few web pages regarding how to install (with suggested install order), some of which should be finished this weekend. See grahamg.110mb.com for the draft [the installing jOrgan page has the most information so far]


I been so caught up with 64Studio that I have not checked out my Puppy installation on my USB drive and see how it handles the audio card swap out. (Last time I booted up Puppy I had the Sound Blaster X-fi, now I have a a more Linux compliant Sound Blaster Live on board).

Quote:
For most of these I have used Slackware or Debian builds (converting them with Alien and tgz2zip) so there are a few instances where you need to create virtual links yourself. More information will eventually be available on the web pages.


So I take it that Alien is also a file conversion program?

Quote:
I also want to try the other apps mentioned by Geo:
Ardour (DAW recorder)
Rosegarden (Midi Sequencer)
Muse (DAW recorder)
Mixxx (DJ Mixing tool)
Patchage (Patchbay for Jack)
Hydrogen (Drum Sequencer)
Audacity (Audio Editor)
Sweep (Audio scrub editor)

as well as Jack-Rack and azr3-jack (Hammond Organ emulator) so would appreciate help from anyone who is already using them.

Have fun!

GrahamG


Most of these programs were downloadable through one of the many repositories within Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio came with all of them already. So I am not sure what file format they would be in if you have to download them 'manually' and convert them so Puppy can use them.

I am hoping that going this route for multi-media is worthwhile. I am still fairly new to Linux and putting together something like this is pretty advanced stuff for me.

But it is too hard to pass up on something like this because I would think a successful multimedia build for Puppy should be faster than anything else out there. AND it is R-T too.

Well, I am off to do some more research.

Geo
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jukingeo

Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul 2008, 15:21    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
Nathan was intending to make Grafpup more of a multimedia distro
Might be worth checking out . . .
http://www.grafpup.org/


Sorry I didn't answer back, but I was trying to work with another distribution this past week and that attempt failed, so I am back in the Puppy forums now because I do want to see if I can create a DAW using Puppy.

At any rate I did check out the site above and it appears to me that Grafpup is more graphics oriented and not sound oriented. Sound or video work needs a real time kernel. More then likely Grafpup is more an art related program and more then likely will not use a real-time kernel.

I tried to look up some information on the Grafpup forum, but they are down
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helander

Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul 2008, 11:36    Post subject: Re: DAW possibility for Puppy  

What do you mean with:

"the newest kernel for Puppy, it supports the real time mode when using Jack" ?

You could specify the RT option to jack running on any kernel and if you are using qjackctl it shows the RT indicator even if the kernel do not support RT.

Building an RT kernel for Puppy is not that simple since you have to apply some non-standard patch combinations (RT,aufs, ...). I have tried to build similar kernels (with that type of patch combinations) without complete success.

If the "newest kernel for Puppy" does really support RT could someone please let us know what kernel version that is (and where to find it)?

The read hurdle for creating a musicians version of Puppy is the non-availability of a suitable kernel, so when that is fixed the rest is likely trivial from a technical perspective. I would be happy to provide a couple of SFS:es with some proper combination of programs/libraries on them, once we would have a kernel to use them with.

/Lars

jukingeo wrote:
Hello all,

I am currently working on a JOrgan project for Puppy Linux and I found out that with the newest kernel for Puppy, it supports the real time mode when using Jack. With that in mind, I am wondering about about the feasibility of creating a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) with Puppy.

What I would like to know is if these programs would work together within Puppy:

Jack
Ardour (DAW recorder)
Rosegarden (Midi Sequencer)
Muse (DAW recorder)
Mixxx (DJ Mixing tool)
Patchage (Patchbay for Jack)
Hydrogen (Drum Sequencer)
Audacity (Audio Editor)
Sweep (Audio scrub editor)

Of course I can think of others, but i think the big guns here for me are Ardour, Audacity (or Sweep), Rosegarden, and Mixx.

Is that a can do in Puppy with real-time and up to 192khz recording capacity?

Thanx,

Geo
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ggoode.sa

Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Johannesburg, South Afirca

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 01:17    Post subject:  

Hi all,

The TEST versions of Puppy 4.1 use the 2.6.25 kernel. This kernel version comes with Realtime scheduling already in the kernel source so a realtime patch does not need to be added. There are some differences of opinion regarding the different realtime scheduling solutions as the method used in the 2.6.25 and greater kernels is not the same as other 'realtime' kernel hacks.

I believe Puppy 4.1 is in Alpha 5 status at the moment, so if you want to try the 2.6.25 kernel help test the new version too Smile

GrahamG
Johannesburg
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ggoode.sa

Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Johannesburg, South Afirca

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug 2008, 09:44    Post subject:  

Hi Guys,

Just reporting that I have Jack/Qjackctl, Fluidsynth/Qsynth, Ardour2, Wine with Wineasio, and Jack-Rack with ladspa pluggins happily running on my Puppy laptop. I'm still working on LinuxSampler, I have it working but have not had time to fully test it yet.

Have fun!

GrahamG
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helander

Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug 2008, 14:26    Post subject:  

Sounds great.

What version of Puppy are you using?
What actions, if any, have you taken to configure realtime behavior?
Have you rebuilt the these apps from fairly new sources or are you using the PUP:s (or was it PET:s) created ages ago?

I have built the new Jack (Jack2, jackdmp, jackmp whatever it is going to be called when released) and tested on some other distros. If we can have a Puppy with good realtime behavior I would gladly switch to puppy and would then have an interest to have/create the following packages:

lmms, jack2, dssi-vst, jost, zynaddsubfx

If you are able to share the packages you might have created I would gladly provide the ones above.

There are some license issues with packages that depend on the Steinberg SDK:s, so that they could not be provided as fully binary packages. As an example wineasio depends on the ASIO SDK, so guess it would be problematic to provide that as a Puppy package. The same goes for jost that depends on the VST SDK, but both lmms and dssi-vst uses the "free" VST header produced in the lmms project, so it should be no problem to provide them as public Puppy packages.


/Lars

ggoode.sa wrote:
Hi Guys,

Just reporting that I have Jack/Qjackctl, Fluidsynth/Qsynth, Ardour2, Wine with Wineasio, and Jack-Rack with ladspa pluggins happily running on my Puppy laptop. I'm still working on LinuxSampler, I have it working but have not had time to fully test it yet.

Have fun!

GrahamG
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ggoode.sa

Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Johannesburg, South Afirca

PostPosted: Sun 10 Aug 2008, 16:17    Post subject:  

Hi Lars and other Puppy DAW enthusiasts,

I'm running these on MacDingo which is based on Puppy 4.0. I've basically taken the .tgz packages from Slackware 12.1 and converted them to PET using the tgz2pet script, installed them and then created a few symbolic links where the Puppy system is different to the Slackware system. The LinuxSampler installs I used are the DEBs that are downloadable from the LinuxSampler site that I then used 'alien' to convert from .deb to .tgz and then used the tgz2pet script on them also.

By the end of this week I should have links to the PETs that I have used (hopefully updated with the correct symbolic link creation) as well as a few instructions.

I would be VERY interested in getting the Jack2 build that you have Smile

In regard to the Steinberg VST issue (I've been trying to think of ways to get around this now for a while) - I think the best solution is for us to setup a VST applications development sfs. In other words, all the required source code needed to build wineasio, dssi-vst, ardour with vst, jost, etc. Then have one directory setup within the sfs for the VST headers. This way others just need to download the VST SDK headers from Stienberg, (agreeing to the license, etc), unpack the headers to that single directory and then run a build script for the application that they need... what do you think? Does this cover the non-distribution clause of the SDK

I haven't yet needed to tweak realtime parameters with Puppy 4.0 yet to get excellent results. I've also been using the 4.1 alpha builds with the 2.6.25 kernel with solid results.

GrahamG
Johannesburg, South Africa
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pixelblip

Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug 2008, 08:30    Post subject:  

Hi Graham
I've recently discovered Puppy Linux and it's really good.
That's really good news you have those apps working....I am sure most of us would love to install wine asio / dssi vst and a sequencer on such a lightweight platform.

Looking forward to your results and thanks for your hard work!
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maggotspawn

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 355
Location: Los Angeles, CA.

PostPosted: Thu 04 Sep 2008, 21:44    Post subject:  

I've recently got Jack/Qjackctl, Wine, wineasio, Reaper, and Audacity running on my laptop. Running it under Dingo. Download compiled wineasio and the Jack pets at: http://www.agitprop666.com/Puppy.html
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 05 Sep 2008, 03:25    Post subject:  

Keep an eye on 4.1 - which will hopefully going into Beta in a day or two
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyDingo41

Good luck with the .pets
Will there be an SFS?

Just using an SFS means you are 100% Puppy compatible
- support exists
and you can concentrate on the music support Cool

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