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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
puppy 64-bit
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eugeniak1


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2008, 02:47    Post subject:  puppy 64-bit
Subject description: hope?!
 

Hi,
i have puppy since 2.17. it's o.k. i have dared to investigate hardware puppys people - there are a lot with x64 and multicore. I have AMD 4200 x64.
Can we all hope to see Puppy 64-bit?
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6999
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jun 2008, 02:05    Post subject:  

People often ask this, and the answer is that it doesn't seem to be on Barry's agenda, so someone else would have to produce a 64bit puppy, which would be a lot of work as they would have to recompile everything.

Also, the benefits of 64bit for the average user don't seem to be huge yet.

BTW if I remember correctly, there is SMP support in the Puppy 4 version with the "experimental" kernel.

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6266
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jun 2008, 20:01    Post subject:  

If it makes you feel better, in about twenty-nine years we'll be feeling a very strong motivation to switch Puppy to 64 bit...
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archwndas

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon 15 Jun 2009, 19:02    Post subject:  

[quote]If it makes you feel better, in about twenty-nine years we'll be feeling a very strong motivation to switch Puppy to 64 bit...[/quote]

Suppose Pizzasgood, I have more than 3GB RAM installed on my laptop or desktop. My laptop has 4GB RAM and 4GB is becoming a standard. In the next couple of years we will see 8GB being a standard on laptops and 16GB on desktops. Why should I be using a standard 64bit Linux Distro with all the overhead that accompanies them (Sabayon, Ubuntu, SuSE) if I only need a terminal emacs and a compiler?

Just think about it. With 32bit systems like Puppy, I can only address 3GB RAM and the rest are wasted. Compiling puppy on 64bit is not that hard if an expert goes for it. Then all of us would be very happy to combine Puppy amazing speed even on 64bit platforms. I would go for it myself if I had time and expertise.

However, I think that puppy needs to allow user accounts first and a loging manager before trying anything at 64bits.

Cheers!
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SirDuncan


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Mon 15 Jun 2009, 22:05    Post subject:  

archwndas wrote:
Just think about it. With 32bit systems like Puppy, I can only address 3GB RAM and the rest are wasted.

That's not exactly correct. The Linux kernel can be compiled with a patch to support up to 64GB of RAM with a 32bit kernel if you have PAE capable hardware (I'm pretty certain that any PC with a 64bit processor has PAE support). Puppy does not have this patch, but it could be added without going 64bit.

So, yeah, I would also go for multi-user first.

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15586
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2009, 00:16    Post subject:  

http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00736

Quote:
Don't ask for the 2.6.30 kernel, nor for tickless/SMP. I will be configuring it with ticks and single-processor. However, I will do an alternative compile before the 5.0 final, with tickless/SMP


Is that relevant?

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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5472
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2009, 01:44    Post subject:  

Lobster, 64bit and SMP are distinctly separate issues.

Anyone who wants a 64bit Puppy should make their own Woof build from a 64bit distro. Should be easy.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2009, 02:38    Post subject:  

Quote:
Should be easy.


Not if you don't know the difference between SMP and 64 bit Embarassed
Anyways . . . sounds hopeful . . .
Many thanks

More questions for the geek-empowered to answer here about 64 bit
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=316116#316116

Thanks again Smile

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6999
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2009, 04:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
However, I think that puppy needs to allow user accounts first and a loging manager before trying anything at 64bits.

As Tempestuous indicated, it should be straightforward to build a 64bit Puppy, however a multiuser puppy will require a bit of work...

It never occurred to me before, but I guess Woof is also the answer for people who wanted Puppies for the Xbox and other obscure platforms Smile

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SirDuncan


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2009, 10:02    Post subject:  

tempestuous wrote:
Anyone who wants a 64bit Puppy should make their own Woof build from a 64bit distro. Should be easy.

Good point. I wasn't even thinking about Woof. That solves the whole "you must also recompile every single package" problem as well since the host distro will already have them. Let's see, compatibility with big distros, ability to build for any architecture, automatic package slimming, and the end result still acts like Puppy. Is there anything Woof can't do?

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dirty_dave


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug 2009, 00:59    Post subject:  

why would you need more then 3GB of ram anyways?? Shocked
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6266
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug 2009, 21:09    Post subject:  

Not everybody uses their computers only for surfing and word processing. Some people like doing graphics work, or audio stuff. Audio and graphics work can be very RAM intensive. Video editing can be even worse. Video games and simulations also can use a lot of ram.

Then there are people who realize that RAM is orders of magnitude faster than harddrive, so they like to create ramdisks (chunks of ram that are treated as harddrive, so that files can be stored there). Then if they need to make a lot of small changes to a bunch of different places in a large number of files, the process will go much faster if they first copy those files into the ramdisk. But the ramdisk takes up ram, so that the OS can't use that ram for normal ram-things. So it helps to have as much as possible.

If you have enough ram, Puppy can copy the pup_xxx.sfs file into a ramdisk before mounting it. This causes initial program start times to be faster than if the file were mounted from the harddrive. If using a computer with an old slow drive, this can be very significant (it was one of my favorite aspects of Puppy before I got my current computer).

When Puppy is run in pfix=ram mode, all changes are held in, guess what, a ramdisk. Also, if the pup_save.2fs file is on a flash-based drive, Puppy will set up a ramdisk to work in, and periodically copy the changes back to the drive (preserves drive life).



28.5 years to go.

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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2460
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug 2009, 21:26    Post subject:  

eugeniak1,

Back to your original question. Kirk has created a 64bit (amd64 - x86_64) build of Fatdog2. See: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=45322

It's working good.
Jim
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dirty_dave


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon 07 Sep 2009, 00:37    Post subject:  

Amazing,
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