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 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
How to do a FULL install of Puppy, to an empty HDD (2010)
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rcracerguy

Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep 2015, 22:21    Post subject:  

I'm stuck. I've gone through the whole first page. Now when I boot and load the hard drive it loads and stops at a # and that's it. I mean I boot to the grub screen then hit enter on the linux drive and it load through some things and stop with a #
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rokytnji

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 2287

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2015, 09:03    Post subject:  

rcracerguy wrote:
I'm stuck. I've gone through the whole first page. Now when I boot and load the hard drive it loads and stops at a # and that's it. I mean I boot to the grub screen then hit enter on the linux drive and it load through some things and stop with a #


First wondering if iso was md5sum checked.

Next would be has the hard drive ever ran anything and is not broken.
Then try Slitaz or some other puppy to make sure hard drive is ok.

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/BootParametersPuppy
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2015, 11:35    Post subject:  

...having NOT read the entire thread...

What's the text right above the # ?

If it says something about "Exited from X" -- that means that Puppy can't understand, at least initially, what graphics hardware you've got. A remarkably common problem.

If what I describe is the case -- at the # type xorgwizard and press [Enter]. That will take you through the video setup wizard, at the end of which you should have a working desktop.

A protip -- on newer Pups (such as Tahr and Slacko) -- skip the "Test X" by pressing [Esc] when you see that screen, and at the new # prompt, type xwin [Enter] -- either it works or it doesn't, there's not much need for a test. Besides, in my experience that 'test' just makes everything go screwballs anyways.

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rcracerguy

Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2015, 15:43    Post subject:  

the xorgwizard worked but do I have to go through it every time? typing xwin worked also. still same question. do I have to do this every time?
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2015, 16:40    Post subject:  

Do you have a savefile/savefolder, or is this an initial install?

If you have a savefile/folder and it's working -- no.

If you don't -- set one up, and then you won't have to do that again unless it breaks. My understanding is that savefiles break more than savefolders. (Don't quote me on that -- I haven't used the savefolder option much, yet. It's quite new.)

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rcracerguy

Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2015, 17:19    Post subject:  

I'm guessing I don't have one. How do I set that up?
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2061
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2015, 19:46    Post subject: Something has gone seriously wrong  

Hi All,

I suspect something has gone seriously wrong when the discussion turns to creating a SaveFile on a thread whose title is: "How to do a FULL install of Puppy, to an empty HDD"

I don't do Full Installs. One of the reasons I don't do Full Installs is that any change --including a change to settings such as those required by xorgwizard to provide the desired screen resolution-- are written to the operating system immediately. And any mistake made is also written to the operating system immediately.

Full Installs don't use SaveFiles.

So when rcracerguy asks "the xorgwizard worked but do I have to go through it every time? typing xwin worked also. still same question. do I have to do this every time?" The answer should be "No."

If on rebooting a Full Install Xorgs's setting have not been preserved its time to start from scratch. And seriously consider (a) Is the undisclosed Pup rcracerguy chose really the best Pup for his computer; and (b) Is a Full Install really the best way to run the best Pup for his computer; after, of course, following rokytnji's suggestion to check the md5sum and the integrity of the hard-drive.

The alternative would be an analog of the "Rule of the Road" we apply in New Jersey: If you don't know where you're going, speed. Laughing

@ rcracerguy: It would help us to help you if we knew which Pup you're working with; and

your computer's specs -- the make and model might suffice if it's stock, but what is really important are amount of RAM, Graphics Card, and Processor. If we knew which Pup you were using, we could tell you which apps to run to obtain that info.

mikesLr
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rcracerguy

Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep 2015, 21:03    Post subject:  

sorry didn't mean to get anyone upset. Just tring to learn. I have lupu3hd 5.2.8.7. I'm installing it on a dell inspiron 1000. It is a 2.2 celeron,256 ram going to try to upgrade another gig. I don't know how to check the md5 sum? everything is working fine I just messed up somewhere on setting up a bootable harddrive. I thought full was my best bet for just that one os.
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rcracerguy

Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2015, 00:37    Post subject:  

ok it all works now. I just don't understand the size of the personal storage space? and how do you add more to it if you need to?
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2015, 11:49    Post subject:  

Sounds like you did a frugal by mistake.

It's actually better that way anyways -- you get to use addons called "SFS" files, with a minimum of fuss. Say for example you want LibreOffice on there... once you have a savefile or savefolder, you have a folder in /mnt/ labeled 'home' -- full path /mnt/home -- drop a LibreOffice SFS in there, and run SFS Load On-The-Fly (I *think* that's in Lupu3HD, not sure -- if not, it's Boot Manager you want) and load the SFS, you're good to go. (If it's Boot Manager, then you have to reboot to use the SFS, but that's absolutely it.)

With a 'full' install, you have to unpack the SFS file (it's sort of like a ZIP archive, a little bit -- I'm vastly oversimplifying here but I don't know how much you know) -- and manually install the files, permanently. Or use *.pet packages.

Savefile (and in newer Pups, savefolder) is how you get persistence -- the ability to have your settings and your stuff hang around across multiple boots. Savefiles in Puppy have a habit of breaking a little, every so often (you'll know it has happened when Puppy starts to misbehave a bit more than usual) so it's probably best to plan for that and have backups of your installed packages (*.pet files and, should you need them, Ubuntu Lucid compatible *.deb files) and whatever else you have done or downloaded or created. (You don't need to back up your SFSs in /mnt/home. That's outside the savefile.) There are ways to back up your entire savefile, should you want to, but I can't help you with that. What I have done for a year or two now, is to have two partitions. One has my install of Puppy that I use daily, and the other has, archived, everything I've done to it or otherwise want to keep outside my savefile. I can boot sans-savefile (we call that "RAM Mode") and reinstall, and be back up and going in somewhere around half an hour if nothing is particularly stubborn.

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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 4811
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2015, 16:00    Post subject:  

Quote:
ok it all works now. I just don't understand the size of the personal storage space?


Definitely a frugal install.

A full install is explained HERE

I would recommend burning the ISO file to a CD or DVD blank .
Then run the install app that is provided in ISO.

Menu > System > Puppy Universal Installer

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rcracerguy

Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2015, 20:27    Post subject:  

I didn't make a mistake. I ended up doing the frugal like everyone said.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep 2015, 20:56    Post subject:  

Good -- it's the better choice Smile

Check my last post, above, for a fair bit of detail, including about the savefile bit.

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Sep 2015, 19:47    Post subject: What do you do with only 256 Mbs of RAM?  

Rcracerguy

First off, no one is angry with you. Frustrated perhaps by the situation of trying to solve a problem without knowing the facts needed to solve it; but not angry. Perhaps it's best if we all take a deep breath, count to 10 and, if you can, open the following video. Don't watch it. Just listen while thinking of yourself as the advisor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4hHf87mXEc

This will answer your last two questions, but now that we know you have a dell inspiron 1000 with only 256 of RAM, we know we are dealing with conditions where even I, a fervent Frugal Install advocate, consider a Full Install appropriate. So you may want to skip down to the section under the heading Decisions.

Regarding the question you asked, “ I just don't understand the size of the personal storage space? and how do you add more to it if you need to?”

When you shut down the first time, you were asked whether you wanted to Save. Only the choices Yes or No were given, and you evidently chose Yes.

I don't have lupu3hd 5.2.8.7 on my computer at the moment. So I've booted into lupu 5.2.8.7. Both were published by rerwin and their builtin applications are almost identical.

Tbe easiest way to get learn the size of the SaveFile if your using JWM –Lupu/Lucid's default window manager-- is to left-click one of the icons near the right edge of the Taskbar. Hard to describe. To me, it looks like a vertical bar-bell with flattened weights at the top and bottom and a colored bar in the middle. At the moment the color on mine is green. The color will change as the SaveFile gets filled up. IIRC, it will display a “caution” yellow as unused space nears 100 Mb. But I am certain that when it get to or below 100 Mb it will turn red and things may start to go wrong.

When it become necessary to increase the size of a SaveFile, there's an application to do so: Menu>Utility>Resize Personal Storage Space. Resizing takes place the next time you boot into any Puppy. So, if you end up running more than one Pup, make sure you reboot into the one whose SaveFile you want to increase.

To avoid having to resize SaveFiles , I recommend –as your running Lupu-- installing PupSaveConfig 2.2.5, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=457081&sid=3ea658ddf9a55dab966562b9f3641dc3#457081 then follow the instructions you'll find on this thread: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=662326#662326. Shut down a couple of times to make certain it's working. If not, ask for help. Once it's working, after you've established your wifi and location setting, and if you save data files outside your SaveFile, the only time you'll want to manually Save is when you've installed and tested a new application, or added a new SFS you want to always have loaded. You should also read the following thread regarding keeping your SaveFile small and healthy. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=62110. Don't hesitate to ask questions.

Regarding using mid5sum, just browse to the ISO you downloaded, right-click the ISO and from the drop down menu select MD5sum. Then click the Hash button. Compare the number generated against the MD5sum reported as correct. There's very little chance if the last four digits correspond you've had a bad download.

Decisions:

With only 256 Mb of Ram, the reason for using a Full Install rather than a Frugal Install is that on bootup a Frugal Installed Pup must decompress its files into RAM and thereafter everything it does takes place in RAM. A Swap-drive can help somewhat –Puppy will treat it as RAM, but it is much slower than actual RAM. A Full Install, on the other hand, has already decompressed Puppies Files onto the hard-drive and simply loads the files it need into RAM as and when it needs them. Even then, with only 256 MB of RAM, a Swap-drive will help.

I'm going to assume that your Dell was running XP, and that you initially booted Puppy from a CD/DVD you created under XP. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know what you did to prepare your computer for Puppy and I haven't recently (perhaps ever) read this entire thread. Nor am I going to. Reading it would take longer than telling you how I would setup a Full Install in 2015, some 7 years after Catdude started it using Dingo, a 4 Series Pup as illustrative.

One problem with Full Installs is that –unlike Frugal Installs-- they need an entire partition of their own.. Your computer came with only one drive and that drive only had one partition. So if you are going to run Puppy as a Full Install you are going to have to create a partition for it.

I've never tried to do a Full Install to a computer with only one Partiton, and that being used by Windows. Perhaps Puppy doesn't allow you to, and seeing that it couldn't only gave you the “choice” to do a Frugal Install.

If you have not already wiped XP from your computer –don't. Your computer was designed to run XP, which is no longer supported. There are Puppies which were /are able to run better on your computer than XP –such as Dingo Catdude used. But the truth of the matter is that most of those Puppies aren't supported either. The most that you can expect today from the dell 1000 –without waiting forever for something to happen-- is surf some of the web and do some light work with a word-processor or spreadsheet. And the 4-Series Pups, as far as I know, aren't able to run the latest versions of Web-browsers needed to view the content on some current Web-pages.

I'll deal with accessing the Web later, but as a general operating system --whether you do a Full or Frugal Install-- I'd recommend Legacy OS 2.1 LTS, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=92791, but see John Biles caveat, http://puppylinux.org/wikka/LegacyOS which will also tell you why it may be the best system for your computer, at least until you increase its RAM. But as you can see, Legacy was last updated only a couple months ago.

[Before buying more ram for the Dell, compare the cost of doing so with the cost of acquiring a newer computer thru ebay. I've never had a problem purchasing from Top Rated Sellers. Check Puppy on Laptops, http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyOnLaptops].

An alternative is Classic Pup 2.14x, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=306792&sid=e0a277f781ae93b806894b0bbc33933f#306792. Although published a while back, it still has an active following.

Important Edit: On checking the Legacy OS thread, I learned that because of file-structure differences between the Series 2 and later Pups, installation of the firefox pet I suggested does not result in a working applications. The same considerations are probably true both as to the Opera pet I suggested, and with regard to Classic Pup. See the Legacy OS thread regarding the latest workable firefox. It might also be possible to run either web-browser I suggested as "Program Folders" --external applications linked to the OS. But setting that up is both way beyond the scope of this thread and probably sufficiently complicated to deter newbies. Both Legacy OS and Classic are great Pups --highly recommended for their wealth of applications for Low-RAM computers. Perhaps to be considered in a Multi-boot environment. But, if web-browsing is desired, I can only suggest the Warys next mentioned.

My last suggestion is to try one or more of the Warys you'll find on Ally's Archive. https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Wary. Click on “ISO Image”. You'll see a bunch. Clicking any name will download just it. I wouldn't bother trying anything lower down (published later) than the Wary-5.3-barebones.ISO.

I recommend that you download several of the above mentioned ISOs, burn them to CDs, run them from the CDs and see which you like the most. Perhaps create SaveFiles on your Hard-drive. Other than the additional time it takes to boot from a CD, once booted you'll have a good idea of how well each runs as a Frugal Install.

The problem with modern browsers is that they are built to handle modern, graphics-rich web-content. To do so they expect to run on systems having graphics libraries which can handle that content. Those libraries are larger –and use more RAM-- and the web-pages will also be in RAM. Older Pups, built for simpler times, didn't include those graphic libraries. [Adding them is rather difficult].

The only two web-browser's I can suggest, are Opera 12.16. You'll find a pet here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/pet_packages-common/ . And firefox-18, which you'll find here: http://www.smokey01.com/pemasu/pet_packages-upup/firefox-18.0.pet. Both should run under any of the above mentioned ISOs. Using either, expect that you will be denied access to some web-pages (with the advice that your browser isn't supported) or having obtained access some web-pages will not be properly rendered, primarily because fonts have the wrong size. But most web-pages are still OK.

With firefox-18, immediately edit preferences to turn off automatic updates, or the next thing you know you'll have a spanking-new and totally useless firefox.

Hold onto your CDs. Once you've decided on the best Pup for your computer, decide whether you want to go thru the trouble of doing a Full Install.

As mentioned, to do a Full Install, Puppy will need an entire partition, and it is recommended that you not wipe XP off the computer. Skip whichever of the following steps you've already done or no longer apply.

1. Hard-Drive Space for Pup:
Boot into Windows. Backup your data to an external source =CD/DVD, External Hard-Drive. Run Defrag Program. When it reports it's finished, run it again.
2. Boot your Lupu from the CD/DVD – because it has the latest gparted. If you have a Lupu SaveFile on your hard-drive, as soon as Lupu starts to boot, start typing “puppy pfix=ram” --without the quotes. You've got about 4 seconds to start typing. This will force Puppy to boot without loading the SaveFile. Copy it elsewhere –perhaps burn it to a CD-- if you want to preserve it and then delete it from your hard-drive.
3. Start gparted: Menu>System>GParted Partition Manager
(a) If you're going to wipe XP from the computer, from the top menu select Device>Create Partition Table. This will erase your old Partition Table leaving you with the entire drive “unallocated”.
(b) If you are going to dual boot Puppy and XP, click on the Line underneath the bar which starts with Partition and ends with Flags. But notice that above it is a panel showing two colors, one as to how much of the partition has been used and the other how much is unused. With only 256 Mbs of RAM, you'll want to create a Swap-partition of about 500 Mbs. And you have to leave XP with unused space at least 10 percent of the amount of space it has already used: it uses hard-drive space without telling you. For example, if XP has used 20 Gb, you'll need to leave it at least 22 Gb of space.

You can probably fully install any of the recommended Pups to a 5 Mb partition, but the more space the better.

But if you have less than 6 Gbs of Unallocated Space, exit, boot back into Windows, uninstall unnecessary applications, make sure you've backed up your data and can access it, delete it from the hard-drive and re-run defrag, twice. Return to Step 2.

If you still don't have at least 6 Gbs of Unallocated Space, decide whether you want to wipe XP, continue to run Pups as Frugal Installs, or neither.

(4) Having decided to create a Partition for a Pup, place your mouse-cursor on the Line under the bar identified above, and then RIGHT-Click. From the drop-down menu select Resize/Move. From the panel which opens, change the current partition's size, creating Unallocated Space for the Pup and the Swap-file. The easiest way is to type a number into the box next to “Free Space Following” then Click on the space next to “New Size”. Then Click the Resize/Move button.
(5) Click on the unallocated space line, Select New and in the Window which opens: (a) Click on File Systems and Select Ext3; then (b) Click on the box next to Free Space Following and type in 500. Then click Add.
(6) Click on the Unallocated Line, select New; then Click on File Systems and Select Linux-Swap. Then Click Add.
(7) Then from Gparted's Top Menu select Edit>Apply All Operations. Wait for Gparted to do its job, then close it.

You'll notice under the Edit Menu are selections to cancel any mistake. Until you click Apply All Operations, Gparted doesn't change anything.

The next time you boot into Windows it will probably do a “file Check”. It doesn't like other systems messing with what it thinks it owns.

Now you can boot up your desired Pup from the CD/DVD and use Puppy Universal Installer, making certain to select your new partition as the place where it is to be installed.

mikeslr
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bambuko


Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 550
Location: North Devon

PostPosted: Sat 19 Dec 2015, 16:12    Post subject:  

rcracerguy wrote:
I'm stuck. I've gone through the whole first page. Now when I boot and load the hard drive it loads and stops at a # and that's it. I mean I boot to the grub screen then hit enter on the linux drive and it load through some things and stop with a #


Everything after this post has nothing to do with original excellent "how to do a full install".
Not only a serious case of thread necromancy, but also thread hijacking and total OT... Laughing
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