Bogus PPZIP support in WakePup2

[otropogo]

However, I suspect otropogo's problem is one of speed matching the boot process,

Don't think so. After installation of the proper pcmcia_scsi module aha152x_cs, my SCSI drive runs just fine under Puppy 3.01 Retro.

Unfortunately, the module doesn't appear to be available for 3.01 Standard or 4.0 (not yet, at least)

Worse, Wakepup isn't working properly. In fact, both FreeDos and WakePup2 can see the adapter and drive, and Wakepup even reads the version number on the CD. There's just a glitch in the coding that causes it to fail to boot from it.

am in process of getting some real SCSI hardware to Barry to sort out booting to/from SCSI hardware to be fully implemented into Puppy

Aha! So YOU'RE the anonymous SCSI donor Barry mentions on his blog.
Unfortunately, he seems to be leaning toward dropping SCSI from Puppy altogether. If so, I think he should make an exception for pcmcia_scsi, where the host adapters are quite simple (no BIOS, no Wide SCSI, no jumpers, etc.), and the drivers are quite small.

BTW - can you tell me where you found Barry's mailing address? He needs some LS-120 disks to test and fix the LS-120 support, and I'm all set to mail him two shrink-wrapped disks, but don't have an address.

Those PCMCIA scsiCDs are quite a bit slower to get going [or at least used to be on my old W98 one] so there maybe a need for some 'sleeps' in there somewhere, in the scripts?

Are you sure you mean "PCMCIA" SCSI? And slower than what?

Non-Cardbus PCMCIA is 16 bit, so it's bound to be slower than 32 bit controllers. Ever try installing Windows from a parallel port CDROM? I've used both, and I guarantee you SCSI is faster.

On my desktops, writing to a SCSI ZIP is considerably faster even than writing to DVD-RAM.

... on my normal scsi hardware I have to assign LUN, device number, could there be a setting jumper on the CD to be set?

That's strange. On my main desktop, that I usually use with Win98SE, I've got two hard drives, two SCSI hard drives, one IDE DVD burner, and one SCSI ZIP drive installed. The SCSI drives run off an Adaptec AHA2940UW host adapter, and I've never had to input any of thos settings. You just have to make sure no devices are jumpered to the same ID.

I've just booted Puppy 4.0, and was going to demonstrate how smoothly the scsi support works, but ran into a big catch - my USB IR mouse doesn't work, my serial touchpad mouse (on the keyboard) doesn't work. The wired USB mouse I then added doesn't work either.

I rebooted the system and added a PS2 mouse, and now the keyboard itself doesn't work, so I couldn't even get through the Xorg configuration!

Happily, removing the USB IR mouse (leaving the wired USB mouse and the PS2 mouse on, got the keyboard back. But now, ONLY the touchpad mouse works, not the USB or the PS/2! Good enuff...

One last sour note: I tried changing the mouse type in Setup from serial to USB. I then restarted X, and am totally mouseless again....
,
On the positive side, Pmount shows both of the SCSI hard drives and the SCSI ZIP100 drive, and there's no problem accessing any of them. The ZIP is shown as sde4, the hard drives as sdf1 and sdg1



Even FreeDOS and WakePup2 can read the essential info off the SCSI chain. When I installed Suse2 with the same setup, it didn't require me to input any of it. I do remember that in the past, there have been some distros, such as Red Hat, and maybe Mandriva, where the PCMCIA boot floppies weren't set up properly, and memory location had to be given IIRC.

But with an adapter like the apa1460x, it's simple - the chain is LUN 0, the adapter is ID 0, and the devices' IDs are read according to their settings. If two devices are set to the same number, your system will likely lock up. Certainly the SCSI chain will lock up. But that's a pretty unlikely occurence on a laptop.

I don't know what happens if you try to run two SCSI chains off two pcmcia host adapters in one laptop. But I think that's pretty academic.
OTOH, being able to run a ZIP drive, a CDROM burner, and a SCSI scanner of the one pcmcia slot can be useful, as can connecting a SCSI hard drive. I've done all of that under Windows98SE. The SCSI chain is pretty useful if you don't have USB.

[Aitch]

Aha! So YOU'RE the anonymous SCSI donor Barry mentions on his blog.
Unfortunately, he seems to be leaning toward dropping SCSI from Puppy altogether. If so, I think he should make an exception for pcmcia_scsi, where the host adapters are quite simple (no BIOS, no Wide SCSI, no jumpers, etc.), and the drivers are quite small.

BTW - can you tell me where you found Barry's mailing address? He needs some LS-120 disks to test and fix the LS-120 support, and I'm all set to mail him two shrink-wrapped disks, but don't have an address.

Anonymous, me?

No, I know Barry posted about some anonymous Aussie donor, but my efforts became high profile on the forum when getting ebay payments/collections in Oz went sour, & Barry posted comments about how p**d off he was!

Seems to be leaning towards.............he gives the impression that he was a postie & SCSI bit him on the A*se

He needs all the encouragement we can give him to support ALL SCSI, booting and all - after all, apparently it's just enabling already included kernel modules
Sage [another SCSI user] has posted elsewhere, that it would enable the loads of commercial SCSI kit currently being landfilled to be put back into use, often with lifetime guarantees on H/Ds

Re the LUN thing, I think we are on the same understanding, I probably didn't explain it very well, but it does seem to depend on the SCSI bias as to whether the jumpers or autoassign is used, in my experience

When I said slower I was referring to an old SCSI-1 external CD writer I had, which had a pcmcia scsi adapter, and I installed a pcmcia to pci adapter into a desktop - I believe this was 8bit SCSI!
It was pitifully slow compared to my IDE CD, but that was 40x and the external was only 2x so probably explains it, though it did take a long time to spin up as I recall
I have SCSI working super well in 2.14/&R/3.01, haven't tried 4 yet but hope it still works as I've just acquired a Trimm 8bay array which connects via 68p external so I can install some more drives

The SCSI chain is pretty useful if you don't have USB.

It's pretty useful if you do, too
I also have firewire400
I find both of them chain better than usb over distance, but keep meaning to get one of those active extension cables
I suppose really I just like playing with all sorts of old kit - space is running short, as it tends to need lots of bench/floorspace and wifi is too insecure

Address to send LS120s;
Barry Kauler
PO Box 359
Perenjori
WA 6620
Australia

Good Luck

Aitch

[otropogo]

[... Barry ... needs all the encouragement we can give him to support ALL SCSI, booting and all - ... it would enable the loads of commercial SCSI kit currently being landfilled to be put back into use, often with lifetime guarantees on H/Ds.

I fully agree, but if the bit about huge driver space requirements is apt, then perhaps a buffet type approach for WakePup2 and other boot floppies (like GRUB) would make sense.

BTW - for years I've been using a number of SCSI drives, all acquired used. And only one has ever burned out. And that was probably due to inadequate cooling arrangements on my part. These drives were the Rolls Royce line of hard drives, designed to run constantly for years. For the type of personal desktop use most of us would impose, they're probably more reliable than most new IDE drives marketed today.

....When I said slower I was referring to an old SCSI-1 external CD writer I had, which had a pcmcia scsi adapter, and I installed a pcmcia to pci adapter into a desktop - I believe this was 8bit SCSI!

It was pitifully slow compared to my IDE CD, but that was 40x and the external was only 2x so probably explains it, though it did take a long time to spin up as I recall.

Absolutely! I've had some experience with a 2x SCSI CDROM on a pcmcia adapter, and I would say it was somewhat like a horrific flashback to loading programs off cassette tape.

But nowadays people are tossing high end external SCSI CD drives, like my Sony Spressa Professional CD-RW burner, probably because it doesn't do DVD. I paid $5 in a thrift store for mine, complete with manuals, software,scsi_scsi and scsi_usb cables.. Hell, the enclosure and power supply are worth much more than that.

Thanks for Barry's address. I got it from him too, but it never hurts to have a reference check, as typos do happen. Will be mailing him a disk today.

[Aitch]

Oh dear, it's not looking good for the LS120.....

http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?page=1

posted 22nd May [though in UK it's still 21st] so hot off the press!!

I'd respond if possible, it is a blog!

Aitch

[otropogo]

Oh dear, it's not looking good for the LS120.....

http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?page=1

posted 22nd May [though in UK it's still 21st] so hot off the press!!

I'd respond if possible, it is a blog!

Aitch

Not possible. After composing the entry below, I had to copy a security code (done), enter a password (that too), and supply the name of the Puppy Mascot (who the hell knows?), so my entry was rejected.

And besides, the input window for his blog is even more awful than this one.

If Barry and his clan are interested in my comments, they'll have to do it here below:


I disagree strongly with the contention that ZIP or LS-120 installation is worthless to potential Puppy users. To begin by countering Barry's size and speed arguments:

a) using the current kernel of Puppy 4.0, there is room on even a ZIP 100 for an install, so long as you use vfat format

b) the LS-120 is 20% larger, and three times faster than a floppy

c) yes, both are very slow to load and to run off disk, however there are laptops that allow no other way to load Puppy (or any other Linux) due to lack of internal IDE CD-ROM or USB. Testing the live CD is even more of a challenge on such laptops.

With enough memory to run in RAM, a bootable ZIP or LS-120 disk (whether self-booting or by means of a boot floppy) would be most useful on such machines (assuming the glitch that fails to load Puppy into RAM from the LS-120 is fixed)

I myself have stuck with Puppy from ver. 2.17 only because I was able to install and run it from an LS-120, even though, because of the above mentioned glitch, it ran only off the disk.

I finally installed Puppy 3.01 Retro to the hard drive, but still face the same problems when attempting to try newer versions of Puppy on that laptop.

And for the rest:

Yes, testing new Puppies on old laptops would certainly be easier using removable flash memory.

Unfortunately, there appears to be no functional boot floppy support for pcmcia at present, whether for flash readers or pcmcia_scsi cards (and I'm speaking here of devices that run fine with the proper modules once Puppy is loaded ).

So if you have a laptop without either bootable USB or internal CD drive, you won't be able to use flash memory to try a new version.

And apparently, pcmcia support on a boot floppy is not easy to get working. Knoppix never had it, and DSL has a floppy pcmcia image that doesn't work. And this even though it's has been done successfully before - most recently in Suse 9.2

So I strongly suggest not throwing out any resources that might enable potential linux users to get Puppy up on their old laptops. LS-120 support makes Puppy unique. Zip parallel port boot support would be another unique feature to crow about.

And besides, I just airmailed a brand-spanking new LS-120 disk to Barry this morning. It's heading toward Canada's highest airport right now, and should be reaching him in a mere ten days or so.

OTOH, if you're NOT going to fix it, then yes - get rid of the menus and documentation that say you can do it, so unsuspecting users don't waste hours and days knocking their heads against a wall.

But my final word is, are you also going to give up the claim to run on low-powered, low-resource PCs? If I had a 2GB 2MHz laptop, with USB, I doubt I'd be running Puppy on it. Mandriva, Ubuntu, Suse, and Fedora are much more likely candidates. And there's plenty of competition in the so-called lightweight camp too - Feather, Antix, Xubuntu, Vector Lite, DSL. ...

It seems crazy to abandon precisely the qualities that established Puppy's niche, just because most of the regular users don't need them anymore. There are lots of old machines like mine out there. The outfit in Calgary, Alberta, from which I bought my CF-25 Toughbook had an office in Panama City for two years through which they sold off much of the discarded hardware they collected in Alberta.

Who knows how many thousands of potential Puppy users are out there in the third world with their old laptops, just waiting for a broadband connection...? Hell, Cuba alone must have thousands of them. I know I left a little Ambra there a few years back.

[Crash]

Attached is a hacked version of Autoexec.bat. It addresses the issue of trying to boot Puppy if it is installed on multiple media. With this version, if Wakepup sees Puppy on more than one media, it tells you and gives you the choice of which one to boot into.

It is derived from the latest "official" release of Wakepup, which is the one included in Puppy 3.01. To test it, simply replace the existing autoexec.bat file with it.

By the way, the DOS batch command set is pretty limited, and you shouldn't expect the ultimate in elegance from any program written in it.

All the hacks are early in the program. I didn't touch anything after the line ":optmenu".

/// Edited May 28

Attached now is an edited config.sys. It changes the opening Option 2 from "Iomega ZIP disk drive, connected to parallel port" to "Load original Wakepup2 drivers". This option may work better for some hardware configurations.

///

[otropogo]

Attached is a hacked version of Autoexec.bat. It addresses the issue of trying to boot Puppy if it is installed on multiple media. With this version, if Wakepup sees Puppy on more than one media, it tells you and gives you the choice of which one to boot into.

It is derived from the latest "official" release of Wakepup, which is the one included in Puppy 3.01. To test it, simply replace the existing autoexec.bat file with it.

By the way, the DOS batch command set is pretty limited, and you shouldn't expect the ultimate in elegance from any program written in it.

All the hacks are early in the program. I didn't touch anything after the line ":optmenu".

Thanks Crash, will try it later today, but it would help to know what media you've tried with it, and also how one prepares a runnable version of Puppy by copying from the LiveCD.

Unfortunately, I've had a setback in my Puppy life. A few days ago, while using ALSA to try to get the sound chip on my laptop working under Puppy 3.01 Retro, the pup_savexx.2fs file was apparently corrupted, and I can't boot with it anymore. It turns out that the backup copy of the file produces the same results, and unfortunately, I hadn't got around to saving a copy off disk. So my only way of booting and running my CF-25 right now is using the original pup_save301.sfs file, which lacks the aha152x_cs module to run my scsi chain.

So, even if your fix works, I won't be able to test it directly from the LiveCD on the pcmcia_scsi chain until I've had a chance to reinstall the module.

My question then is, would your fix also look at pcmcia flash readers, parallel port ZIP 100s, and/or internal LS-120 disk? And if so, (given the fact that the universal installer no longer works with at least the latter two of these media, how do I transfer the necessary files properly from the live CD , so that WakePup recognizes them and mounts Puppy just as it would a LiveCD?

Can I simply copy the files over from the LiveCD, or are the other procedures I have to follow?

[Crash]

otropogo,

...it would help to know what media you've tried with it...

I tested it on a computer that has Puppy installed on the hard drive, simultaneously having a Puppy Live CD in its IDE CD reader. This is as close as I can get to your hardware situation.

...would your fix also look at pcmcia flash readers, parallel port ZIP 100s, and/or internal LS-120 disk?

This version of autoexec.bat does not add any more driver capability, so it won't help you on your legacy hardware. Almost all of the drivers are called by config.sys, or by pcmcia.bat, if that path is taken. I will leave it up to others who have the hardware to try out what ever changes may be implemented in the future for config.sys and pcmcia.bat.

This is not a fix per se - all the capabilities of Wakepup are retained and no new capability is added. It simply presents all the possible media where it thinks Puppy can boot into. I made the changes because with them, we wouldn't have needed the extended troubleshooting session earlier in this post. The particulars of your situation would have been obvious.

Can I simply copy the files over from the LiveCD, or are the other procedures I have to follow?

Yes, you simply copy the files over from the LiveCD. In addition, you have to create the appropriate marker file - IDEHD, USBHD, or USBFLASH. The media has to be formatted in either fat16 or fat32 in order for FreeDOS to see it. There is plenty of information about this on related Puppy Linux sites.

/// Edited May 25:

I did a search at Newegg for PCMCIA SCSI adapters and came up empty handed. It took me a few more Google searches to discover that Adaptec still makes their Slim SCSI product for PCMCIA. But it is pretty expensive.

In the process of the search, I found that there is a product that converts PCMCIA to Compact Flash media. The adapter is very cheap, under $10, and I think it would work pretty seamlessly - it appears to be a simple mechanical adapter, similar to the adapters available for IDE. So this may be a way of universally getting Puppy working on older Laptop computers. I may buy one of these adapters just to try it out.

[otropogo]

/// Edited May 25:

...Adaptec still makes their Slim SCSI product for PCMCIA. But it is pretty expensive.

Adaptec products have never been cheap from the manufacturer. OTOH, so many of their scsi host adpaters have been sold, that there a zillions floating around out there. I picked up a second shrink-wrapped Slimscsi 1460a kit a few years ago from a liquidator for $45. I hope I didn't lose it last time I moved....

... there is a product that converts PCMCIA to Compact Flash media. The adapter is very cheap, under $10, and I think it would work pretty seamlessly - it appears to be a simple mechanical adapter, similar to the adapters available for IDE. So this may be a way of universally getting Puppy working on older Laptop computers. I may buy one of these adapters just to try it out.

Absolutely!

Compact Flash adapters are the simplest possible flash memory connection to an ISA pcmcia controller, if I understand correctly. They were the first produced to provide simple downloads to PC for high end DSLR cameras using Compact Flash cards for storage, and they are still used for this.

What you've most likely found is the Sandisk CF adapter, which can be found at most photo equipment stores. I've never tested it's maximum capacity, if any, because to date, I've only owned CF cards of 512 and 256MB capacity, although I believe there are now CF cards with up to 64GB capacity.

My Lumix Z30 digicam uses SD. So I also have a Nexxtech 7 in 1 pcmcia flash adapter (much harder to find, but I got one from Circuit City), which handles pretty much everything except CF format. It allows me to download images from my laptop under Puppy 3.01 Retro

But the camera will only handle cards up to 2GB in size, so I haven't tried any larger cards, and don't know whether there would be a problem accessing larger flash cards in a 16-bit pcmcia slot. I do know that the successor Z50 model handles HCSD cards of 4GB.

Am waiting for the price of 4GB+ CF and SD cards to fall further, and for the transfer speeds to increase. Unfortunately, it's often hard to find out what the speed of a given card is. I believe the best prices I've seen up here at storefront (Wal-mart and Staples) is about $50 for an 80X 4GB CF card. Advertised speeds for CF and SD cards are now up to about 266X, maybe more.

[Aitch]

I believe the best prices I've seen up here at storefront (Wal-mart and Staples) is about $50 for an 80X 4GB CF card.

Here in UK on ebay [ships worldwide] ; from HK

Sandisk Extreme IV 4G

http://tinyurl.com/4umfkt

No Postage fees!!!

Bidding at £0.99 yes, 99pence [$2.00?]
hundreds of ads, so no need to get in a bidding war

Maybe phoney, but good feedbacks being given

Some lucky buyers have got 8G for £7/~$15; check sellers other items

you pays your money......

Aitch

[otropogo]

I believe the best prices I've seen up here at storefront (Wal-mart and Staples) is about $50 for an 80X 4GB CF card.

Here in UK on ebay [ships worldwide] ; from HK

Sandisk Extreme IV 4G ...
No Postage fees!!!

Bidding at £0.99 yes, 99pence [$2.00?]
hundreds of ads, so no need to get in a bidding war


Aitch

Yes, well, postage is NEVER free shipping to Canada, even within Canada, for items like this. Last time I ordered something this size and weight from the US, the shipping was around $10. Often it seems that e-bay vendors really make their profit on shipping charges.

I also notice that the UK postal insurance is $4, and no speed rating is given for the card in the specs. IIRC, the 80x Sandisk CF card I described is an Ultra II, the Extreme is a slower series.

I also gather that newer cards can stand many more rewrites than the old ones. And finally, I've had some major problems with Sandisk cards. I've got two 512MB CF cards here that had to be replaced because they were really 256s. And when sandisk tech support tried to help me fix the problem, they were totally destroyed.

So it's possible that the ones being sold on e-bay are slower, more fragile, counterfeit, or just a defective run.

That said, I'd certainly try one for five bucks or so. But having read paypal and e-bay small print, and read some of the horror stories of locked accounts and difficulties contacting customer service, I've never been able to bring myself to buy or sell anything there.

But I appreciate your heads up. How about finding a cheap serial port (RS232) pen table for me (RS232 AND USB connectors would be even better)

[Aitch]

HaHa

Of course, one like this, & if you email the seller & ask for a quote to post to where you are, it might still be a good deal



http://tinyurl.com/684r29

Buy now price; £10+£4 post to UK/call for o/seas
[~$28/30+extra postage/ins o/seas]

If you want me to find one in US, I suggest you try Craig's List, as I hear they are good

OK?; 10 bonus points,

25 bonus points for canada/US unit



http://tinyurl.com/4hqkj2

HHHAAH!

Aitch

[otropogo]

HaHa

Of course, one like this, & if you email the seller & ask for a quote to post to where you are, it might still be a good deal

Aitch

Nice try Aitch, but you'll note that there's no model info on the UK tablet, shipping is outrageous, returns impossible....

The US tablet is more attractive, but note - it's USB only, and my laptop has no USB.

What I'm specifically looking for is just a very small 2 square inch pentablet of the sort bundled with the Chinese Penpower input program. Unfortunately, I missed the boat, and they stopped marketing the serial version several years ago. I wish I knew where they've all gone.

This is for lulling myself to sleep while working on my Chinese. So the toughbook is perfect. If I doze off and it crashes to the floor, look out floor!

[otropogo]

Attached is a hacked version of Autoexec.bat. It addresses the issue of trying to boot Puppy if it is installed on multiple media. With this version, if Wakepup sees Puppy on more than one media, it tells you and gives you the choice of which one to boot into.

It is derived from the latest "official" release of Wakepup, which is the one included in Puppy 3.01. To test it, simply replace the existing autoexec.bat file with it.

By the way, the DOS batch command set is pretty limited, and you shouldn't expect the ultimate in elegance from any program written in it.

All the hacks are early in the program. I didn't touch anything after the line ":optmenu".

Ok Crash. I tried your autoexec.bat version, and had lots of strange experiences on the way, but no cigar in the end.

1. I tried to install Puppy 4.0 to a Compact Flash card with the universal installer, and had the same problem as when installing to IDE ZIP, the installer popped the CD out after a second or two, and nothing was written to the card.

2. I tried copying the files from the CD to the flash card, and another strange thing happened. The 243MB flash card's properties showed 188MB in use, yet the CD had only 88MB on it, and the flash card had only 3MB in other files. Go figure.

3. I then took a wakepup2 floppy that was written by Pup 4.0, and substituted your autoexec.bat. It couldn't find Puppy on the flash card in a USB flash reader connected to my desktop.

4. next I booted 3.01 standard, and tried reinstalling Wakepup2 from it over the existing one. It appeared to do it, but didn't overwrite anything as far as I could tell.

5. decided to format the disk in Windows and reinstall Wakepup fresh, but then Puppy rejected the disk, even though it had been low-level formated and surface scanned in Windows. I finally got Pup to low lever format another disk and install Wakepup to it.

6. next I ran universal installer to install Puppy 3.01 over the non-working Pup 4 install I had copied. In Puppy 3.01, the installer actually wrote to the flash card, and even noted that 4.0 was already installed. I know it wrote to the medium because now the 243MB card had only 30MB left freeinstead of 55MB.

But in the end, it didn't make any difference. Wakepup never gave any sign of finding Puppy on the flash card in the USB card reader.

I then switched to my laptop, hooked up the pcmcia_scsi drive and inserted Puppy 4.0, and also inserted the CF card with Puppy 3.01 installedinto a pcmcia slot. I tried menu optiions 7, 2, and 6, all without success. The PCMCIA controllers were found and recognized, but Wakepup appeared to have eyes only of USB or IDE CD-ROM drives. The only installation Wakepup could find was on the ide hard drive.

Worse, with the new autoexec.bat, Freedos no longer sees the pcmcia_scsi adapter and attached drive as it did before. Everything ends either in a hung system or at the option to enter the path.

At "path", I've tried entering /dev/sda1/ or dev/sda1, but that doesn't work.

So, I'm out of tricks.

The only good news in all of this is that I've established that Puppy 3.01R can access 2GB on an SD card in my 7 in 1 adapter . So I'm still hoping you can configure Wakepup to find find and boot Puppy on it.

[Crash]

otropogo-

You take a lot better notes than I do. I need to take these one at a time, and maybe with several posts.

1. I tried to install Puppy 4.0 to a Compact Flash card with the universal installer, and had the same problem as when installing to IDE ZIP, the installer popped the CD out after a second or two, and nothing was written to the card.

The issue of Puppy 4.0 Universal Installer working on a CF card was noted elsewhere on the forum:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=29065

My solution was to put it in a CF-IDE adapter and plug it in as an IDE device. Then I had Universal Installer install it as an "Internal (IDE or SATA) hard drive". That works fine. I'm not sure if it results in more writes to the device, but it has worked for me for a while now without failure.

This feature worked in Puppy 2.17, and I'm not sure about 3.01. Hopefully, the next release will have it running again.

2. I tried copying the files from the CD to the flash card, and another strange thing happened. The 243MB flash card's properties showed 188MB in use, yet the CD had only 88MB on it, and the flash card had only 3MB in other files. Go figure.

That's bad. I would want to start completely over, deleting the partition(s), making a new disk label, ce-creating the partition, and setting the boot flag. GParted works good for this. I'm using a 128MB Compact Flash card, and Puppy fits on it, but with very little room for a save file.

3. I then took a wakepup2 floppy that was written by Pup 4.0, and substituted your autoexec.bat. It couldn't find Puppy on the flash card in a USB flash reader connected to my desktop.

Does the original Wakepup2 with the unedited autoexec.bat find Puppy on the flash card? This will give a clue where the problem is.

That's about all my brain can take right now! We can look at the other items in another go-around.

/// Edited a few hours later:

Puppy's Universal Installer also works fine on a Compact Flash card that is plugged into a USB adapter if you select the more generic "USB Flash drive" option. On a computer that supports USB in the BIOS, the CF card will boot directly. For others, it should be able to be booted through Wakepup2.

[otropogo]

....I had Universal Installer install it as an "Internal (IDE or SATA) hard drive". That works fine. I'm not sure if it results in more writes to the device, but it has worked for me for a while now without failure.

This feature worked in Puppy 2.17, and I'm not sure about 3.01. Hopefully, the next release will have it running again..

I'm not sure what you mean by IDE adapter. All I had to work with on the desktop (the only system on which I could try with v. 4.0 and v.3.01 Standard) was a USB 2 flash card reader, into which I inserted the CF card. I used the third installer option "USB CF flash drive, later move...". In Pup4 this resulted in the CD ejecting, in 3.01 it ran, but didn't give the same options as #1 "USB Flash drive".

I've just followed your suggestion, and deleted all of the files from the CF card in Windows. But then only 155MB of 243MB were available. After I reformated it in Windows, it showed the whole capacity. Then I went back to Pup 4.0 and chose option 1, install to USB Flash drive, and got the option to put pfix=noram in the config file. I declined, and continued. And this time the files were written, and 155MB of free space remains.

.Does the original Wakepup2 with the unedited autoexec.bat find Puppy on the flash card? This will give a clue where the problem is.....

No it doesn't.

Puppy's Universal Installer also works fine on a Compact Flash card that is plugged into a USB adapter if you select the more generic "USB Flash drive" option. On a computer that supports USB in the BIOS, the CF card will boot directly. For others, it should be able to be booted through Wakepup2.

Haven't investigated that option yet. Not sure it exists on my 1999 vintage Celeron/Socket 370 system, but will try if it does.

We interrupt this analysis to boot some Pup.

[otropogo]

We interrupt this analysis to boot some Pup.

Ok, I've just booted my desktop several times using two versions of WakePup2:

A) is Wakepup2 generated by Puppy 4.0 but using the modified Autoexec.bat file posted in the thread "Yet another Wakepup.."

B) is Wakepup2 generated by Puppy 3.01 Standard but using Crash's recently modified Autoexec.bat

The boot medium was a 256MB CF flash card in a USB2 flash reader on my desktop.

Attempts:

1. checked system's BIOS for USB boot option - negative

2. booted with floppy B) with both USB install and LiveCD inserted, using menu options 1, 6, and 7. Option 1 reports a CDROM, the others don't. All detect and recognized the USB controllers, but find no file to boot, not even on the LiveCD.

They either dead end in a "select path" option, which allows rerunning autoexec.bat, but takes you right back to the same option menu, or (option 1. IIRC) "successfully" installs ASPDISK.SYS, and then hangs system.

3. booted with floppy A) with both USB install and LIveCD inserted using menu options 2 (old wakepup) and 3 (PCMCIA). Option 3 hangs the system. Option 2 sees the CDROM, detects and enables the USB controllers, installs ASPIDISK.SYS, then goes on to boot Puppy from the CF card in the flash reader.

BUT, strangely, it DOESN'T offer the option of booting from the LiveCD on the internal CDROM drive, nor does it offer the option of using the Pup_save(4.0).2fs file on the system's hard drive, it simply boots clean without options.

4. just to be sure, I repeated step 3, but with no LiveCd in the drive, and got exactly the same results.

5. also repeated test #1, same results.

Hope all this makes sense to someone....

Next I'll be trying this on my laptop with the CF install in the PCMCIA slot flash reader, but no time right now, and not too hopeful...

[Aitch]

The US tablet is more attractive, but note - it's USB only, and my laptop has no USB.

Ah, I see, well I tried - no points today, then

I thought all toughbooks had usb on them, or is it just broken?
Plenty pcmcia2usb adapters about

I haven't seen any 2x2 tablets, maybe you could adapt a phone that uses pen i/p, as I assume it's just for jots rather than artwork?

Aitch

[otropogo]

...
I thought all toughbooks had usb on them, or is it just broken?
Plenty pcmcia2usb adapters about

The CF-25 Toughbook has no USB ports. And yes, there are pcmcia2USB adapters, In fact, I've got one. But they're all 32-bit, requiring a Cardbus slot. And the CF-25 has one Cardbus slot, socket 0, but it doesn't work as cardbus because the BIOS doesn't assign it an IRQ. Panasonic tech support jerked me around for half a year on this issue, insisting it should work. But it doesn't.

BTW - I own several Panasonic products. Their hardware can be quite good. I quite like my Lumix FZ30 digicam. Just don't count on their customer service, It's the worst of any major electronics player I've ever dealt with, with the possible exception of RCA-Thomson.

.I haven't seen any 2x2 tablets, maybe you could adapt a phone that uses pen i/p, as I assume it's just for jots rather than artwork?

Aitch

Yes. It's strange they never come up. They're all made by Wacom for the Chinese. I just got another sale flyer from Twinbridge for a number of Penpower input tablets ranging from $59 to $189. But all are USB. My application is looking up the meanings and pronunciation of Chinese characters, so there's also bundled software involved. And so far as I know, that's not something you can do on a phone.

I do have a Chinese PDA/dictionary, a Besta CD-68,that does a fair job.

It gives me an input aread about 1X2 ". But the menus are very awkward, navigation is awful, and only a third of the user manual is in English.

[Crash]

I'm not sure what you mean by IDE adapter.

A CF-IDE adapter is a handy thing that may not be applicable for your purpose. It is similar to your PCMCIA CF adapter, but it is made to plug into the motherboard's hard drive IDE connector. It makes the CF card look just like a hard drive. They are about $10 and are worth playing with if you like to pop the top off your computer. If you are not comfortable messing with hardware, they aren't useful.

And this time the files were written, and 155MB of free space remains.

Good. Sometimes you can't explain why things get goofy, but a complete re-do usually gets thing back the way they should be.

No it doesn't.

(meaning the original Wakepup2 didn't work either)

This is bad. However, in light of what you say below, I guess things got a little better.

A) is Wakepup2 generated by Puppy 4.0 but using the modified Autoexec.bat file posted in the thread "Yet another Wakepup.."

PLEASE tell me you also replaced config.sys. Although I think I already know the answer, because if you didn't, you would have gotten weird results.

Option 2 sees the CDROM, detects and enables the USB controllers, installs ASPIDISK.SYS, then goes on to boot Puppy from the CF card in the flash reader.

Isn't that ironic? The old Wakepup2 code works, and all of the new stuff doesn't. I'm glad I re-inserted that code in the "Yet another" version. You might check to see if you get the same results using Wakepup2 from version 2.17, which is the last version before we all got our fingers into it last year.

BUT, strangely, it DOESN'T offer the option of booting from the LiveCD on the internal CDROM drive, nor does it offer the option of using the Pup_save(4.0).2fs file on the system's hard drive, it simply boots clean without options.

Umm... I gotta think about that one for a while.