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Bogus PPZIP support in WakePup2
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otropogo
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PostPosted: Sat 17 May 2008, 18:45    Post_subject:  Bogus PPZIP support in WakePup2
Sub_title: "boot from Parallel Port Zip" option in WakePup2 leads nowhere
 

Have just tested WakePup2 option #2 "Iomega ZIP.disk drive, connected to the parallel port", and see no evidence of it working.

In fact, there's no indication that Wakepup2 looks for anything on the parallel port.

I tried WakePup2 on floppies created by both Puppy 3.01 Retro and Puppy 4.0.

For good measure, I also tried substituting the new autoexec.bat and config.sys files offered on December 2 in the thread "Yet Another Wakepup2".The previous files date from August and September of 2007,

If there's an earlier version of WakePup2 that actually DID support running Puppy from a parallel port ZIP, I'd like to try it. If not, I suggest this entry should be removed from the options menu.

I haven't tried option #3 "Backpack CD_ROM drive, connected to the parallel port", but I wouldn't count on it working either.

To be sure the problem wasn't in the ZIP drive, the cable, or the parallel port settings, I tested the ZIP under Windows 98SE on one of the three systems ( the other two don't have Windows installed)

In Win98SE, enabling the pp ZIP required running the Iomega "guest" program, after which it worked flawlessly.
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Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 430
Location: Garland, TX

PostPosted: Sun 18 May 2008, 01:12    Post_subject:  

I'm not sure what is supposed to be in that part of the code sequence. When I did the code walk-through in preparation for creating the readme file, I noted the problem. I noted it in the readme file that I posted in January. I also posted a readme file for the 3.01 version in an obscure thread a while back. I'm re-posting it here. I'll look back to see where that part of the code disappeared, but I would appreciate it if anyone else that was involved in editing Wakepup2 could also help.
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otropogo
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PostPosted: Sun 18 May 2008, 02:56    Post_subject:  

Crash wrote:
I'm not sure what is supposed to be in that part of the code sequence. When I did the code walk-through in preparation for creating the readme file, I noted the problem. I noted it in the readme file that I posted in January. I also posted a readme file for the 3.01 version in an obscure thread a while back. I'm re-posting it here. I'll look back to see where that part of the code disappeared, but I would appreciate it if anyone else that was involved in editing Wakepup2 could also help.


Have just read your readme text for the first time. But, if anything, it deepens the mystery for me.

After posting my bug report, I managed to find an old WakePup2 floppy from Puppy 2.14, and tried it to compare it with the current version. There was no option to boot anything from the parallel port that I could see. The only options were F8 for a step-through boot, and F5 to skip config.sys and autoexec.bat.

The Kernel.sys on this disk is dated Feb.25 2005, and the config.sys is dated May 11, 2006. So it's a bit of a mystery that these parallel port capabilities were developed and lost again in the space of a year or so.

The other mystery is that when I choose Menu option #7 Pcmcia (experimental), the very last driver: ASPI CDROM Driver for DOS Version 4.01 Copyright 1990-1996 Adaptec, Inc.

finally detects my pcmcia_scsi host adapter and attached CDROM drive:

"host adapter 0, Target SCSI ID =5 LUN 0, and
SONY CD-RW CRX145S 1.0c

CD-ROM driver installed: I host adapter(s), 1 target(s)"

but when I "press any key to continue"

all WakePup does is look for Puppy on idehd, and reports:

"...file found on idehd, drive C:\", and offers me a second menu with the Puppy Boot Modes, which doesn't have any option to boot from the freshly detected CDROM drive.

What sense is there in that? It should be asking whether I want to boot from the CD or from the hard drive.

BTW - I've also tried this "pcmcia" option in Wakepup2 with pcmcia flash card readers holding flash cards to which I'd installed Puppy with the Universal Installer, and none of these have ever been presented as boot options either.
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Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 430
Location: Garland, TX

PostPosted: Sun 18 May 2008, 10:37    Post_subject:  

I searched all the intermediate versions of Wakepup2 that I saved last year while following the iterative development of the Wakepup2 that is now in version 3.01. I couldn't find any of them that actually executed code using option 2, so that is still a mystery to me.

Except for the version that I modified in December, I didn't really do any original authoring, just some debug suggestions. So I'm not sure what the people who did that part of the code had in mind. I don't have the hardware available to test it, either. I was mostly interested in the more mundane applications, such as booting to a USB flash drive. But I would like to get all the other parts of it to work too.

Regarding the problem where your pcmcia_scsi adapter is found but not searched: When the part of code is executed that searches for Puppy, it goes through a fixed search sequence, and if Puppy is found on any media earlier than the one you want to boot to, it will select it first. The search sequence in order is: idehd, usbhd, usbflash, and finally ide or usb cd.

On the experimental path, when you get to the "Select Puppy Boot Mode" screen, you should be able to select Option 6, "Boot Media". Then you can select the CD explicitly. I did very limited testing of the experimental path, but I'll go back to it and make sure what I'm saying really occurs.
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otropogo
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PostPosted: Sun 18 May 2008, 15:21    Post_subject:  

Crash wrote:
....Regarding the problem where your pcmcia_scsi adapter is found but not searched: When the part of code is executed that searches for Puppy, it goes through a fixed search sequence, and if Puppy is found on any media earlier than the one you want to boot to, it will select it first. The search sequence in order is: idehd, usbhd, usbflash, and finally ide or usb cd.


Why, after Freedos has detected and enabled the pcmcia scsi adapter and its attached CDROM, should WakePup disregard it and look on the hard drive for puppy? Obviously the user chooses the PCMCIA boot option because he wants to boot from pcmcia. not from the hard drive.

What's also nuts is that when you choose the PCMCIA boot option, Freedos loads and tries a zillion SCSI drivers that have nothing to do with pcmcia scsi. Wouldn't it make more sense to load and try just those few that are written for pcmcia host adapters?


Crash wrote:
.On the experimental path, when you get to the "Select Puppy Boot Mode" screen, you should be able to select Option 6, "Boot Media". Then you can select the CD explicitly. I did very limited testing of the experimental path, but I'll go back to it and make sure what I'm saying really occurs.


Well, if you look at the options presented, PCMCIA isn't one of them.

BTW - on the topic of the missing parallel port Zip support, I would point out that all iomega removables IIRC, have to be booted from partition #4. I know for certain that that's true of ZIP disks and Bernoullis. So if WakePup2 looks for Puppy on a ZIP anywhere but sdx4, it's not going to find it. Iomega uses a proprietary low level format, and partition #4 is the only one the user can access.
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Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 430
Location: Garland, TX

PostPosted: Sun 18 May 2008, 18:14    Post_subject:  

I can't comment on the trail of logic involved since I am not the original author. But did you try the "5. CD Drive" option in the Boot Media menu? If that didn't work, there is a bug to be worked out. What drive letter does your pcmcia-scsi CD ROM show up as? I note that Wakepup2's CD search code only looks for drive X, Y, or Z.

/// Edited an hour later:

The reason that Wakepup2 simply executes the same search code is that there is no communication between the pcmcia.bat program and the autoexec.bat program that it passes control back to. With a little thought, pcmcia.bat could create an environment variable that it passes back to steer autoexec.bat the right way. The problem is that I don't have any hardware here to test it out. But first things first. Let's see if you can get the pcmcia-scsi CDROM to boot before I start hacking code.
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otropogo
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PostPosted: Sun 18 May 2008, 19:20    Post_subject:  

Crash wrote:
... did you try the "5. CD Drive" option in the Boot Media menu?


Tried it just now."5. CD Drive" takes me right back to the Boot Options menu, from which I selected 6. Boot Media.

When I select #1. Normal on this menu AFTER going on the little #.6 Boot Media/#5. CD Drive tour, I get exactly the same menu of pup_savexx.2fs files from the hard drive as I do when I go to Normal boot the first time round.

But, after the tour, when I select:

"1 hda1 /pup_save-301Rxxx.2fs"

Wakepup2 reports (in red letters)

"pup_400.sfs not found.Dropping out to initial-ramdisk console..."

And when (always the optimist, and six minutes older) I select:

"0 none"

it displays the same error message in red, followed by:

/bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off

So evidently WakePup2 WAS able to read the CDROM in the pcmcia_scsi chain, or it wouldn't be looking for pup_400.sfs


Crash wrote:
What drive letter does your pcmcia-scsi CD ROM show up as? I note that Wakepup2's CD search code only looks for drive X, Y, or Z.


Not sure what you mean by drive letter.It's been too long since I've run it under Windows to recall, except for Freedos, which doesn't supply a letter. But logically, it should be "D" under DOS, especially if I don't have any pcmcia flash readers inserted..

And since Wakepup2 is obviously accessing and enabling my pcmcia_scsi card, why doesn't it enable the pcmcia flash readers as well? The Sandisk CF reader should be especially easy. I gather it's nothing but a straight-through connector to an ISA controller.

In Puppy 3.01 Retro, the only version in which I've been able to enable it, the CD-ROM drive shows up as/dev/sr0
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Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 430
Location: Garland, TX

PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 03:34    Post_subject:  

I hate to make you do the troubleshooting for me, but I am only attempting to emulate the pcmcia scsi CD problem with the hardware I have.

Can you edit the autoexec.bat file and go to the line that reads:

driver\SHSUCDX /D:?IDE-CD,X,,2 /d:?USB-CD,Z,,1 /QQ

and get rid of the " /QQ"?

also, add a pause command after it. So the whole thing looks like:

driver\SHSUCDX /D:?IDE-CD,X,,2 /d:?USB-CD,Z,,1
pause

This way, you will see what the CD ROM driver finds. On mine, I see some title information and then this information:

Drive Driver Unit
X: IDE-CD 0
Y: IDE-CD 1

See what you get. It will give a clue where things aren't working.

/// Edited a few hours later:

Also, what are the contents of \linld\puppy.lin on the floppy? They should look like this:

root=/dev/ram0
PMEDIA=idecd
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otropogo
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PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 10:31    Post_subject:  

Crash wrote:
I hate to make you do the troubleshooting for me, but I am only attempting to emulate the pcmcia scsi CD problem with the hardware I have.

Can you edit the autoexec.bat file and go to the line that reads:

driver\SHSUCDX /D:?IDE-CD,X,,2 /d:?USB-CD,Z,,1 /QQ

and get rid of the " /QQ"?

also, add a pause command after it. So the whole thing looks like:

driver\SHSUCDX /D:?IDE-CD,X,,2 /d:?USB-CD,Z,,1
pause

This way, you will see what the CD ROM driver finds. On mine, I see some title information and then this information:

Drive Driver Unit
X: IDE-CD 0
Y: IDE-CD 1

See what you get. It will give a clue where things aren't working.


OK. Done that, and now, after running option #7. PCMCIA, and "pressing any key to continue", the following message is displayed:

SHSUCDX installed.
Drives Assigned
Drive Driver Unit
Z: USB-CD 0

Press any key to continue...

Then I get the Select Puppy2 Boot Mode menu, select #6. Boot Media, then #5, CD Drive, and I can hear the CD drive power up, then the Select Puppy 2 Boot Mode menu redisplays, and I select #1 Normal, the CD drive powers up again (briefly), the screen displays "loading from USBCD" (or words to that effect), then I get the pup_savexx menu from hda, and chose #0 None.

and get the same red error message as previously:

pup_400.sfs not found. Dropping out to initial-ramdisk console...

/bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off

/// Edited a few hours later:

Crash wrote:
IAlso, what are the contents of \linld\puppy.lin on the floppy? They should look like this:

root=/dev/ram0
PMEDIA=idecd


on my WakePup2 floppy (the unedited one generated by Puppy), these lines read:

root=/dev/ram0
PMEDIA=idehd

Should I change idehd to idecd or to usbcd?
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otropogo
Guest


PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 13:57    Post_subject:  

Crash wrote:
.... what are the contents of \linld\puppy.lin on the floppy? They should look like this:root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idecd


As posted previously,. the second line read

PMEDIA=idehd

when I first checked it.

But after removing the "/QQ" in autoexec.bat and rebooting, that line has now changed to:

PMEDIA=usbcd

Unfortunately, WakePup2 still can't boot from the Live CD on the pcmcia scsi chain.

While were at it, if you could tell exactly how to manually create a bootable install of Puppy 4.0 on a flash card and/or ZIP disk (copying from the LiveCD), we could give booting from those a try with WakePup2 as well.

Puppy 4.0's universal installer doesn't work at all on my IDE ZIP drive, and I doubt it works any better on USB cards.
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Crash


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 430
Location: Garland, TX

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 00:18    Post_subject:  

Overall, things look pretty good. The fact that SHSUCDX sees your CDROM is good. As you execute the program, Wakepup2 overwrites the puppy.lin file, and indeed it is updating it with what it is being told.

... But ...

I question why the pcmcia.bat program wants to call the SCSI CDROM a USB-CD, since I think it more resembles an IDE-CD (although to tell you the truth it's been a long time since I had a SCSI drive in my computer). At the risk of sounding stupid, I suggest you change the reference in pcmcia.bat to make the Kernel think it is an IDE CD drive:

Change the line in pcmcia.bat from:

devload /q driver\aspicd.sys /d:USB-CD

to:

devload /q driver\aspicd.sys /d:IDE-CD

( Just change "USB-CD" to "IDE-CD". )

Then again, maybe that won't do anything. This is getting into how the Kernel behaves with the "PMEDIA=" parameter, and this is where my knowledge starts to get pretty thin. Maybe others can comment about this.

... On the subject of putting the files manually on Flash media: I have very good luck just copying vmlinuz, initrd.gz, pup_400.sfs, zdrv_400.sfs, and a USBFLASH marker file to the Flash media, then just letting Wakepup2 do its default bootup.

... It is a little late to mention it, but from your earlier description, it looks like you have an "IDEHD" marker file on you hard drive already. It may be less confusing to temporarily delete or rename it, since that is probably why Wakepup2 initially saw the hard drive rather than the CDROM. With it out of the way, the CDROM will probably be recognized simply by selecting the "Normal Boot" mode without going through all the other strangeness.
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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 01:02    Post_subject:  

otropogo wrote:
Crash wrote:
.... what are the contents of \linld\puppy.lin on the floppy? They should look like this:root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idecd


As posted previously,. the second line read

PMEDIA=idehd

when I first checked it.

But after removing the "/QQ" in autoexec.bat and rebooting, that line has now changed to:

PMEDIA=usbcd


as you've noted, the original contents are irrelevant. puppy.lin is overwritten just after :writeoptions in the autoexec.bat, all prior to being called..

otropogo wrote:
Unfortunately, WakePup2 still can't boot from the Live CD on the pcmcia scsi chain.


i'll try to tinker with it a bit also (I have one pcmci cd drive here). i think the problem was with needed himem to load the pcmcia drivers and that killed LINLD.COM or something along those lines.

the drivers for PCMCIA should be there under "driver/CARDWIZ" and the zip drivers should be under "driver/zipdrv"

if you look under config.sys there is some commented out logic that might work for pcmcia. i think the logic for the zipdrive driver is hidden in the old 1.x series wakepup. I think i have a copy around somewhere. i don't have a zip drive so never implemented that logic. would be great to see it working.

great thread. lets see how far we can push it for 4.1.
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otropogo
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PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 02:11    Post_subject:  

John Doe wrote:
...

otropogo wrote:
Unfortunately, WakePup2 still can't boot from the Live CD on the pcmcia scsi chain.


i'll try to tinker with it a bit also ... i don't have a zip drive so never implemented that logic. would be great to see it working.

great thread. lets see how far we can push it for 4.1.


Thanks for your interest. I think being able to dry run Puppy from a PCMCIA slot or even an external ZIP, whether off the parallel port or off a SCSI pcmcia host adapter would be a great boost for Linux among people with older laptops.

I think pcmcia support on the boot floppy is the key. I managed to install Suse9.2 on this machine using Suse's pcmcia floppy to access the pcmcia_scsi chain. So it's certainly doable. And now that flash cards up to 4GB have gotten dirt cheap, that would give older notebooks much greater flexibility.
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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 03:38    Post_subject:  

otropogo wrote:
I think pcmcia support on the boot floppy is the key.


agreed.

further more, whether the pcmcia is USB or CD or "other".

the only two laptops I have; one has a 16bit slot and the other has a 32bit slot. it's just a mess for my mind to handle between the DOS drivers and binaries as well as the binary switch on the card.

i seem to recall getting to a point where the pcmcia/usb devices would go with DOS but not with puppy.
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 10:05    Post_subject:  

Hi Guys

I seem to recall BarryK saying that USB is a 'SCSI type' device

However, I suspect otropogo's problem is one of speed matching the boot process, as Crash appears to have figured the SCSI recognition - applause

I am in process of getting some real SCSI hardware to Barry to sort out booting to/from SCSI hardware to be fully implemented into Puppy
Apparently there is a bit of code in the kernel needs tweaking, though since you've got further than before, maybe just timing?

Those PCMCIA scsiCDs are quite a bit slower to get going [or at least used to be on my old W98 one] so there maybe a need for some 'sleeps' in there somewhere, in the scripts?

Possible?

Only other thing, on my normal scsi hardware I have to assign LUN, device number, could there be a setting jumper on the CD to be set?

Aitch
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