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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
First Skype. Now Gizmo
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Jun 2008, 18:43    Post subject:  

I have just uninstalled mcewanw cut down version and installed charni 15M version and to my disappointment it reports the same problem.

"GDB not found on your system". I have just discovered this is a debugging program, not actually part of the gizmo package. Crying or Very sad

I am no wiser to what the actual error is except it says it's unexpected.

Anyone got any ideas?

I might try it booting from the CD in case my frugal install has been corrupted.

Charni if you see this I wouldn't mind trying your SFS version. Does it include both orbit and Gconf?

Thanks
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charnisingh

Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sat 07 Jun 2008, 20:51    Post subject: gizmo
Subject description: gdb problem
 

Dear Smokey-1,

please uninstall it completely and manually also and make sure there are no traces lef of gizmo or its dependencies.

install again in this order first-GConf2 then orbit2 and lastly gizmo-project
or best is to use fresh save file

as for as sfs file i have to look into and i will post here again
no i have not uploaded gizmo sfs file so far.

the minimum gizmo containing sfs file i have with me is about 64 mbs as it contains beside gizmo -complete ,
is skype-complete , vlc, xmms,
mplayer and audacity.

the other one containing gizmo-complete is quite big as it contains all my applications which i tried in puppy 4 but it should work from 2.14 onwards it is about 334 mbs. but i have not uploaded any these.

I UNDERSTAND MANY WHO ARE TRYING TO USE GIZMO FIND IF THEY TRY TO CONFIGURE SOME THING WHICH I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT
AND TOUCH PREFFERENCE BUTTON GIZMO CRASHES, IT IS TRUE AS THERE IS NOTHING TO CONFIGURE FROM PREFFERENCE BUTTON. GIZMO
MAKES ALL THE ADJUSTMENTS AT THE TIME OF REGISTERATION AT THE FIRST TIME CONNECTION AND THE PREFFERENCE BUTTON BECOMES REDUNDANT, SO DO NOT TOUCH THAT BUTTON, OTHERWISE IT IS LIKELY TO CRASH. IN THE NEW VERSION WHICH I USE IN WINDOWS, THEY HAVE REMOVED THAT BUTTON.

let us hope William may come up with a better solution.

thanks and regards.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 02:54    Post subject: Gizmo crashing and the "no GDB message"  

smokey01 wrote:
I have just uninstalled mcewanw cut down version and installed charni 15M version and to my disappointment it reports the same problem.

"GDB not found on your system". I have just discovered this is a debugging program, not actually part of the gizmo package. :cry:


OK. I can clear a couple of things up here.

First of all, as far as anyone has reported, there is only one crash occurring with gizmo, and that is in Puppy 4.00 Dinglo. If you try to select Preferences from either File->Preferences, or from the "Preferences" button, gizmo will crash. This occurs whether you use my dotpet or charni's.

When the crash occurs you will get one of two messages (as far as I know).

1. If you are not doing any development work, and don't have the devx_400.sfs loaded up, then the debugger gdb won't be present, so the message you will get when gizmo crashes is: "GDB not found on your system"
Gizmo has nothing to do with gdb not being on your system; it has not corrupted gdb...

2. If you have devx_400.sfs and thus gdb present, the crash message you will see instead is:
"Gizmo Project has quit unexpectedly" etc...

If you don't try and change Preferences settings, the crash does not occur and Gizmo should work fine for you. So, if you are using Puppy 4.00, just don't try and change preferences. It is no big deal.

If you really want to change preferences, anyway, you can do so manually if you wish. You will find all the individual settings in various xml text files inside the following location:

/root/.gconf/apps/gizmo/settings

But I'd suggest backing up the original of any such file before trying to edit manually, for obvious reasons.

Second Point:

There is no major difference between charni's dotpet and my one, except that mine is smaller to download by about 4.5 MByte, which means that its installed size is about 9 MBytes less. So how is it smaller? Well, the executables are identical (they are provided from the gizmo website (we don't compile them), but I have stripped them of unnecessary debugging info. Also, charni, had accidentally duplicated two folders containing exactly the same files. I fixed that, which gave a further space saving. That's all; the two dotpets should work exactly the same.

Finally, when you use petget manager to remove the dotpet, the config files that gizmo itself creates are left behind. They are just simple text files (in xml format), and take up almost no space and I can't imagine that there is any way they could corrupt your system's operation. Leaving behind profile info is very common (mozilla and firefox also do that) - useful if you then reinstall later or upgrade since you don't need to type in all the profile info again.

After uninstalling gizmo you can always remove these small leftovers profiles manually if you wish. As far as I can see they consist of the following directories (i.e. folders):

/root/.gizmo
/root/.gizmo-cache
/root/.gconf

I can't guarantee anything; I didn't write the gizmo application. Rather, like charni, I just put it into a dotpet container for use on Puppy. However, I don't myself think that you have a lot to worry about. In view of the above details, Gizmo crashing in dingo is just a minor inconvenience IMO.

I hope the above helps address your concerns.

I would be grateful if someone would try charni's gizmo...stdlibc++5 version in dingo as an alternative to the stdlibc++6 version to see if it crashes too on selecting Preferences. I expect it will. As I've said, I suspect the version of the gtk2 libs in Dingo somehow don't behave with gizmo (though that is just my guess). I still plan to try the gtk2 libs version from Puppy 2.17.1 in dingo, since there are no crashes in 2.17.1. I'll let you know later if I have any success with that experiment.

Happy Gizmo-ing!

William
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charnisingh

Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 03:26    Post subject: gizmo
Subject description: sfs of gizmo uploaded to day
 

Tanks William,

you did a better job explaining the crash, actually one does not gain any thing by touching that button.

i have just uploaded sfs of gizmo which is inly about 13 mbs. for some who wanted it. it is complete in itself and one does not have to bother with its install.

i think it is pointless to test gizmo-project-stdc++5 for only to check
crash, as it would. gizmo5 version 4.xxxx does have that button any
more.

thanks and regards.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 04:27    Post subject: Re: gizmo
Subject description: sfs of gizmo uploaded to day
 

charnisingh wrote:

i think it is pointless to test gizmo-project-stdc++5 for only to check crash, as it would.


Good to hear you have produced an sfs charni.

I still think it is worth trying the stdc++5 version; we only assume it will crash too. Do remember that pressing the Preferences button DOES NOT cause a crash in either Puppy 2.17.1 (or in 2.16CE according to Caneri). I'd try the stdc++5 version myself were it not for the time it would take me to download that one too via dialup (I may yet if no other kind soul does). After all it is very easy to backup a pup_save file and test things like this.

Anyway, the crash problem is hardly a big issue and no doubt the next version of gizmo for Linux will fix it one way or the other (by not having the Prefs button being one way!)

I did by the way try using the Puppy 2.17.1 version of libgtk-x11-2.so.0 in Dingo. It was just a shot in the dark. I hoped Dingo but they do have slightly different kernels (2.6.21.5 in Pup2.17.1 and 2.6.21.7 in dingo). There is probably more to it than that (compiler version libs and so on maybe, I don't know...) Well, Dingo did start up and go into X okay and the JWM menu bar was there, but nothing else (!) and apps wouldn't run with that substitute library. Not so surprising I suppose. Oh well, nothing won, nothing lost there... :-)
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 04:36    Post subject:  

Ok been trying to send voice mail with Gizmo . . .

so far have sent to: Charni, Tom, William Mcewan, Will Davies and Eric
If that works it is VERY useful. It is a charged facility in Skype and works as an internet international voice messaging service.

I have just got my family interested and involved in Skype - going over to Gizmo may be a bit much
However Gizmo do have a phone and SMS service that might temp them Smile

Gizm might be Geeks only - the sound quality is acceptable but Skype sound quality is digital - very high quality Cool

My sister had her Skype on and got a surprise call from long lost relatives from Canada (where ever that is)

Do leave me a voice message - if you get gizmo working and I will reciprocate - if all is working Smile

Update:
Just had a brief conversation with Hairywill but he was absconded by a lurking wife . . .
The sound quality was high - children and family mayhem in the background! (not low as I first reported) I was taking the voice mail message as an indication of quality . . .

"We have the technology"
I have also been trying to install gizmo on my xandros based Eeepc
(yes I should be running Pupeee - but I am too stupid to work it out - have major difficulties with that despite great support)

I have also noticed something called 'the sun' and I might have to unplug from the internet. Not sure where the switch is though . . . Smile

OK next plan is gizmo on a Macintosh
then some contacting Windows users (treat them as if they are human - it lulls them into a false sense of security) Smile

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 09:23    Post subject: gizmo for older pups in a much smaller install/download size  

Since my previous posts I have downloaded the stdlibc++5 version of gizmo from the gizmo-project website, partly because I wanted to double check if that one would crash in Dingo too, but also because some older Puppy versions will work with it. (Caneri tested charni's stdlibc++5 version in 2.16CE with no crashes at all, so this new one should perform identically, but with the advantage of a much smaller download and install size). It does however still crash in Puppy 4.00 (Dingo) should the user try to access Preferences...

Again, this dotpet has the exact same functionality as charni's, but by stripping the debugging code out of its binaries and removing some duplicated files this new dotpet is once again much smaller: approximately 9 MByte download (so 18 MBytes once installed - so a big final saving of around 9 or 10 MBytes install size).

You'll find it with my other offering (the gizmo...stdlibc++6 version for Puppy 2.17.1 and Puppy 4.00) at:

http://www.puppylinux.ca/tpp/foksyfeyer/gizmo-project/

Please check its md5sum and let me know if you have any problems when using it. Would be interesting to know which earlier Puppies it actually ends up working okay with.

No more skyping around, on with the gizmo.

William.

P.S. Whilst testing I noticed the voicemail from Lobster sitting waiting for me to hear it. Came in loud and clear to my current abode in down south New Zealand. I quickly plugged in my microphone and sent a short confirmation reply (after quickly turning up all the sound mixer settings, because I usually find the volumes very low), so hopefully something got back through. Alas my microphone is a cheapo piece of rubbish.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 18:37    Post subject:  

William & Charni, I deleted the three directories and contents as suggested. This fixed the unexpected error and the program now runs again. Clicking the preferences option is a real problem though as it can be accessed in two places. According to The Gizmo web site there are many configurable options that can be managed in preferences so this really need to be fixed.

It's certainly an unconventional way of adding your IM details. Click on the only active address in the address book, type help in the IM and then type 3 to install MSN. It will then ask for your user name and password. Once done I could communicate with my son by IM but we couldn't get a voice call to work. He was on MSN and I was using Gizmo. If I originated the call I could hear it ringing but he could not and vice versa.

I also left a voice mail for Charni. No response yet so I am not sure if you received it.

Gizmo has potential but without some bug fixes and video it cannot compete with Skype. Although Skype is not an open system it is a pretty good package and really does have a large share of the market.

It's a bit like comparing DSL and Slitaz to Puppy. I was horribly offended when I read this recently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with either package, I like them both however there is a huge difference in functionality and features. Size is the only real or fair comparison. Puppy really does compete with the big distros. I would be interested to know what Ubuntu, for example, can do that Puppy can't, functionality speaking.

(soap box mode off)
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 21:51    Post subject:  

smokey01 wrote:
there are many configurable options that can be managed in preferences so this really need to be fixed.


Hopefully the next gizmo release will include video and address the crash issue. In the meantime, I just edit the config files manually. I don't want to use Skype because I prefer using open protocols even when the program (gizmo) itself isn't open source, but that is just a matter of personal choice and preference.

smokey01 wrote:
I could communicate with my son by IM but we couldn't get a voice call to work. He was on MSN and I was using Gizmo.


I haven't touched MSN, but I am pretty sure it does not use open protocols for voice, hence gizmo voice won't work with it. Gizmo is just designed to be able to IM such services, not voice calling. It is going to be able to communicate by voice to Google Talk users though (and maybe already can, I haven't tried that yet) - so that is a big plus in my opinion. Google Talk is so easy to install on windows systems that I'm sure many will have it, and of course you can use gizmo to IM google talk users too.

smokey01 wrote:

Gizmo has potential but without some bug fixes and video it cannot compete with Skype.


Gizmo already includes video for windows users, so I imagine it is already competing in the larger market. As for the bug we've discovered, it only seems to apply to using Gizmo with Dingo (and not some other Puppy versions), but it is a real nuisance, I agree.

In practice, I believe Skype could be in trouble, unless it starts using open protocols too. I say that, less because of gizmo, than because of google talk adopting open protocols. We all know the market share of google products. I am sure it is no accident that google talk and gizmo have a close working relationship. We'll no doubt find out what happens with skype, one way or the other sooner or later; it would be great if they felt forced to offer open protocols too because of the competition.

smokey01 wrote:
It's a bit like comparing DSL and Slitaz to Puppy. I was horribly offended when I read this recently.


Wow, smokey, you take such comparisons very seriously[buy I know that Puppy has a very faithful following, and it no doubt deserves it in every way too - only Puppy can be compared with the big distributions, and generally wins in such comparisons!]. Personally, I love Slitaz [though any comparison has to be taken lightly because of Slitaz's obvious current limitations], as far as I can see it is the only other small distribution that currently shows a lot of promise. It isn't Puppy though; how can it be in such a small size, but it is certainly much better than DSL in that it uses the newer kernels and applications. The main problem with Slitaz is that it doesn't yet offer much in the way of packaged applications and no wireless or modem support as yet (it IS only on its first major public release afterall..., so any comparisons take that into account I'd think] Of course these things will come and I expect it will come down to a matter of choice; I may use both. I also use Ubuntu, but not very regularly, but that's because the CDs are free! :-) [and I like the package managers of both Ubuntu and Slitaz, though I've never worked out how to build an app for Slitaz yet - too busy with Puppy...]
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charnisingh

Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 22:16    Post subject: gizmo
Subject description: testing of gizmo-req. libstdc++5 Pet by Williams
 

Hello Williams,

i have downloaded both of gizmo pets and tested req. libstdc++5
and found no difference as far as working is concerned. i feel you have done a good job.

test was in puppy 4 so crash problem was there but it was there in my
(a non tech) gizmo pkg. also.

6 mb reduction is lot of saving and that too without effecting any of its functions.

there was a time when no body could help me to get GConf2 as a PET
though i wrote to many of forum friends, but one buddy did hellp and that is Mark (MU). but in puppy 4 GConf2 needed some more libs for its working and i used to add those manually till i learned how to modify a PET

anyway that is history now.

thanks for your help.

Charni.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 22:45    Post subject:  

mcewanw wrote:
Wow, smokey, you take such comparisons very seriously


I believe if you are going to make a comparison then you must compare apples with apples not grapes with water melons otherwise all you are doing is misleading people.

Of course there are personal preferences and many other factors that dictate choice. Experience is probably one of the greatest persuasions. A bad experience will stay with you for ever, no mater how small.

I guess that's why Barry waited so long before he released puppy 4.0.

Did you know Barry had written a full GUI OS that fits on a floppy disk (1.44M)? Now thats what I call an achievement. If I remember correctly it had browsing and network capability too.

Anyway, keep up the good work.

Charni, can you provide a link to the SFS file too please.

The SFS principle is another great idea. One click and you have a much expanded system.

I don't play games so windows is not missed around here. But it would be nice to have a SFS full of games for the times when the children want to play. I don't like to bloat my pup_save file.

Thanks
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charnisingh

Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jun 2008, 23:10    Post subject: gizmo
Subject description: gizmo-project sfs link
 

Hello Smokey01,

Link: http://www.puppylinux.ca/members/Singh-Dingo/sfs-files-for-puppy4/Gizmo-project-xmms_400.sfs

above is the link you asked for.

do post if the sfs work for you.

regards.

Charni.

PS. my other sfs files were too big as i mentioned before so i made this file which is only about 12 mbs.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jun 2008, 01:56    Post subject: Re: gizmo
Subject description: gizmo-project sfs link
 

charnisingh wrote:
Hello Smokey01,

Link: http://www.puppylinux.ca/members/Singh-Dingo/sfs-files-for-puppy4/Gizmo-project-xmms_400.sfs

above is the link you asked for.

do post if the sfs work for you.

regards.

Charni.

PS. my other sfs files were too big as i mentioned before so i made this file which is only about 12 mbs.


It worked like a charm but It obviously used some of my settings in the current installed frugal puppy 4.0.

I will try it from a clean CD boot and see how it performs.

Thanks
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HairyWill


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jun 2008, 04:57    Post subject:  

I received lobsters voicemail, I only just read the instructions Wink.
The notification arrives as an email with the message attached as a wav file. You can also retrieve voicemail by dialing 611 and then hitting 2 on the keypad tab.

For anyone that has the preferences working.
If they are stored in anything as accessible as a text/xml file. Can you send me an annonymised copy so I can access some of the settings with a text editor?

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jun 2008, 06:36    Post subject: gizmo preferences  

HairyWill wrote:

For anyone that has the preferences working.
If they are stored in anything as accessible as a text/xml file. Can you send me an annonymised copy so I can access some of the settings with a text editor?


You should already have the default config files if you have installed gizmo and logged in at least once (they don't get written until you login with a registered account). I tried this in Dingo (for which Preferences access always causes a crash).

It isn't one config file though, there is one text/xml format file for each tab in the Preferences window, and there are about eight or ten tabs in that window. So what you are looking for is the directory containing one subdirectory for each one of these tabs, and one config file in each of these (always, it seems, called %gconf.xml). As I mentioned somewhere earlier you can find them in the following folder with default values already there:

/root/.gconf/apps/gizmo/settings

In "Preferences" there are tabs for:
General; Accounts; Audio; Status; Chat; Sounds; Dialling; Browser; Advanced; and File Transfer

In the above folder, there are subdirectories corresponding to most of these, as well as one called ui for user interface. I'm not sure where accounts info is held but I expect it is in .gconf somewhere.

As an experiment I manually edited
. . . settings/ui/%gonf.xml
changing the value= from true to false as follows:

<entry name="contacts_show_offline" mtime="1212726612" type="bool" value="false">

The result was as if I had ticked the corresponding check box in Preferences->User Interface tab, such that offline contacts were not shown in the main window.
[EDIT: Oops... No it wasn't; there is no Preferences->User Interface tab, but I'm sure you get the general idea. The result of the above was as if I had checked menu item View->Show Offline Contacts... Smile ]

Not exactly the most convenient procedure and no good for the novice user, but I think you can get away with never altering the defaults most of the time.

The easiest way of understanding the config file contents is to try gizmo out in one of the Puppy versions that actually works without crashing I'd say. For example, a frugal install of Puppy 2.17.1 is what I use for that (maybe 3.01 works too, but I don't know). Or perhaps someone cleverer than I at screen capturing could post screen dumps of the Preferences window tabs?

To be frank, the items other than true/false are not so easy, because you need to work out what value means what; that would have to be done by trial and error and a crib sheet written. Or... work it out by using Gizmo in Puppy 2.17.1 first and then you can write your crib sheet, but it would take a lot of time doing all that.
prefs_tab_general.jpg
 Description   gizmo Preferences->"General" tab
Doesn't crash in Puppy 2.17.1 at least.
 Filesize   51.53 KB
 Viewed   768 Time(s)

prefs_tab_general.jpg


Last edited by mcewanw on Mon 09 Jun 2008, 08:18; edited 4 times in total
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