Minisys-Linux Muppy 008.3 F (July, 12th, 2008)

[MU]

Here are pets for TESTING to make Muppy 008.3 french and dutch:
ftp://ks301128.kimsufi.com/Muppy0083/FRANCAIS/ (updated version from may, 28, 2008)
ftp://ks301128.kimsufi.com/Muppy0083/NETHERLANDS/

I wanted to try it myself, but I am actually too busy with development - no time.
Please backup your msy_save.2fs , then install the pet.
Please report us your experiences.

Here is the private message I received with this pet:
I received it on may, 6th, so sorry for the delay
As I said, I wanted to test it myself first, but there were those bugs I had to fix first...
As the next 2 weeks I'm busy, too, I now delegate the testing to all interested users.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bonsoir Mark,

Tout d'abord un grand merci pour cette nouvelle version de Muppy, j'aime beaucoup.
Je suis occupé à terminer le paquet de localisation Muppy008.3-FR.pet et actuellement je le teste sur la version Mini DE. En gros cela fonctionne plutôt bien mais j'ai observé certaines curiosités :
- Je suis systématiquement obligé de télécharger (commande Chooselocale) fr_FR même s'il se trouve déjà dans mon paquet. Si je ne le fais pas, je n'obtiens pas la traduction de toutes les applications en FR.
- Je n'arrive pas à obtenir la traduction en français des entrées de menus. Par contre, si je modifie un seul fichier .desktop situé dans /usr/share/applications/ alors, après enregistrement de la modification, brusquement tout le menu principal se traduit en français.
- Je n'obtiens pas la traduction des textes des icônes sur le bureau, elles restent en allemand. Pourtant j'ai bien un fichier Translate-ROX.mo traduit en français. Bon, là c'est moins grave, on peut les traduire en français depuis le bureau.

Voila où j'en suis. J'ai aussi réactualisé mon site et ouvert un espace pour la Muppy afin d' y placer un manuel d'utilisation en Français.
J'ai aussi produit un paquet Muppy-NL et l'ai envoyé à Béèm le 3 Avril pour voir s'il pourrait s'occuper des fichiers .desktop en NL, mais il ne m'a pas donné de nouvelles depuis. S'il n'est pas intéressé, je demanderai à mon frère de me trouver quelqu'un en Belgique.
Les paquets se trouvent ici :
http://www.softenpoche.com/sep/Muppy-FR08.3.pet
http://www.softenpoche.com/sep/Muppy-NL.pet

Bonne soirée et à bientôt
--
gw

[prehistoric]

@MU,

I just ran a series of tests which could provoke an interesting response on a support line. I used a 1 GHz !GB RAM machine with a DVD drive to install Muppy 008.3d to a refurbished Seagate 500 GB IDE drive. (This was a frugal install to /dev/hda1.) The machine used a GeForce3 video adapter to drive a 21" SGI flatscreen CRT at 1600x1200x24 @ 85 Hz.

I then moved the drive to a machine which has revealed problems in several other distributions - a 500 MHz 128 MB RAM Compaq iPaq (desktop) with neither CD/DVD nor floppy, using the Intel eepro100 network interface.. This machine uses embedded i810 graphics with shared video memory to drive a 17" IBM G78 flat screen CRT at 1024x768x24 @ 85 Hz.

I'm posting from the second machine. After rerunning xorgwizard, I had no serious problems. You don't recommend running the Muppy standard installation on a machine with such limited memory, (and I understand why,) but it works.

Some minor problems:
The message window which asks about installing intel graphics drivers is too small for the title to be read. On a 1600x1200 screen this looks pretty silly. There needs to be a notice in the green body of the window which can be read without enlarging the window. Also, Hotpup calculates screen positions without considering the height of the taskbar. On the 1600x1200 screen this meant the device icon labels were unreadable.

The disk I used has a 2 GB swap partition, (for testing purposes.) Several times on that iPaq I had a hang at "unmounting swap". Suspecting a problem with processes left over from exiting X, I applied the hack I've used on "Chihuahua" alpha 6 to deal with a race condition in X. This seems to have solved the problem, though half a dozen shutdowns and reboots is not a real test.

On slow machines the probability of getting the message about "no pinboard in use" on power up approaches 1. I'm thinking there is a race condition between pinboard startup and wm startup. This could also apply to the problem with icon pileups and the nvidia driver. Adjusting timing isn't a general solution. Could you point me toward documentation about using ROX under other window managers, like Icewm? I'm dealing with similar issues on "Chihuahua".

[MU]

the pinboard is run from /root/.xinitrc

Code: Select all

rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin

you could try a delay:

Code: Select all

sleep 3 && rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin &

Mark

[prit1]

@MU: I was excited when you mentioned about Muppy server on another post regarding sharing files on the network.

I wanted to try it on an old Compaq Ipaq Celeron with an external USB wireless (at76_usb - i guess is the name of the module). This module worked fine on other Puppy systems for the same USB wireless. But on this old machine, the module loads, but there is no connection.

If this worked, I could make some use of this old pc.

If you have time, please do help.

[Barburo]

Hi Mark - some more feedback:
I downloaded mini and all the .sfs files.
addons.sfs may have an incorrect MD5 sum - I downloaded it twice (once via browser, once via wget) and I got identical files - the same MD5 but different from yours.
I have an old PC I tried Standard and Mini on it - a Celeron 634, 320 Mb RAM, and my swap file on disk is 867Mb.
When I loaded Standard I was able via xorg to get a good screen resolution (1280x1024).
I loaded mini as a fresh install and xorg was only successful at very low resolutions (680x840 or something like that).
I ran mini again but picked up the previous .2fs save file from Standard and everything worked - good resolution etc.
Any idea why?

[MU]

md5sum is correct for addons-EN_083.sfs.
So you have a broken download, that might be the reason for your issues.
Mark

[Bert]

Muppy in Dutch?! Wow, thank you gw and Mark, some people here will be very happy, even if this release is only for testing.

gw, as-tu encore besoin d'un traducteur? J'habite en Belgique et ma premiere langue est Néerlandais.
En tous cas, un grand merci!

Amicalement,
Bert

[gw]

Hello,

@Bert

Bien sûr! Et bien content de trouver quelqu'un de plus qui soit intéressé, car je ne sais traduire que l'anglais ou l'allemand uniquement en direction du français (mais pas l'inverse, hélas).
Je termine une nouvelle version de mon paquet FR et la posterai demain pour test. J'aurai alors un peu plus de temps pour regarder la version NL et te donner un coup de main si tu as des questions.
Encore merci pour ta proposition, c'est sympa.

A+
--
gw

[Barburo]

Yes - sorry MD5 is correct - I got confused between the English and German versions.

[prehistoric]

the pinboard is run from /root/.xinitrc...
you could try a delay:

Code: Select all

sleep 3 && rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin &

I've read that code. I was asking about recommendations from the people who designed ROX. The Icewm manual says clearly that they do not want concurrency with X processes outside their control.

In all cases, choose the one recommended by your distribution and make sure that there is no concurency between the X startup scripts.

That hack is the kind of thing I've become suspicious about. Fixed delays break down in extreme cases. Sometimes problems with other things, hardware or software, push you past the delay and create another level of confusion when you are trying to debug.

Do you know any reason for not launching ROX-filer under control of the wm? That way, if something delays the wm, we don't get into a race. I can experiment, but when chasing non-deterministic problems, trial and error can take a very long time.

[gw]

Hello,

Here is the Muppy-FR083.pet for the localization of Muppy-083 in french.
To try it :
Run Muppy from a CD with the boot option puppy pfix=ram to avoid an alteration of your existing msy_save2.fs file
Download the pack Muppy-FR083.pet from :
http://www.softenpoche.com/sep/Muppy-FR083.pet
Install the .pet and don't forget to restart X after installation.
Note :
You will see that the translation of the GtkBasic menu is not complete and only obtained after a modification of a .desktop file or after installing of a .pet file. I don't know why and what I've missed. If you have any idea....

A+
--
gw

[MU]

Today, I spent some hours to get an Nvidia geforce 7000m working.
See "conclusion" further down for a maybe working quick instruction.

The system was an Acer inspire 7250 Notebook.

First, it was just possible to get a Desktop by choosing Xvesa (1024x768).

With Xorg, a black screen appeared, but it was not frozen - I could switch to textmode with CTRL-ALT-F2.

Google told me, there were often problems with it.
I then ran xorgwizard again, chose 1024x768.
When I got the black screen, hit CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE.
Typed:
mp /etc/X11/xorg.conf

replaced
driver "nvidia"
with:
driver "vesa"

Now xorg works, but just 1024x768
Using "nv" did not work.

I then wanted to run Muppys Nvidia-installer.
/usr/local/install-nvidia-m008/install-nvidia
But it expects the line
driver "nv"
If that is not found, it exits.
So I added that while I were in X.
I also found a bug in that script from my tests:
one line contains "sis", that must be replaced with "nv".

From a consolewindow I now ran:
/usr/local/install-nvidia-m008/install-nvidia

It did not work though, again, I got a black screen.

I then ran the latest original nvidia installer downloaded from nvidia.com.
I used development.sfs, so it could compile a new Kernel-module.
Again black screen.
Then, frustrated, I deleted xorg.conf and ran "nvidia-xconfig".
It created a new xorg.conf with new frequency-settings for the LCD-display, this now worked!

Maybe I would not have needed the new installer, I should have tried this with Muppys installer, first (deleting xorg.conf).
But as I did all by trial and error, I had tried the new.
Then I ran out of time, to test it with Muppys installer.

However, the odyssee did not end yet.
After a reboot, X refused to start.
modprobe nvidia
told me about unresolved symbols.
After a while I found out, this is an error due to unionfs (again - aargh).
This could be seen by error-messages from "dmesg".
I ran the installation again, and then looked in /initrd/pup_rw , what files were new.
Copied them to a temporary folder, and created a nvidia.tar.gz
Extracted this in "/" then.
Now unionfs accepted the files.
After a reboot, I got the nvidia-logo, and fantastic 1440x900 pixel.

To run the antinspect demo from 3DCC I had to modify the demo-script, because it wrongly detected, that no OpenGL was installed.
The Demo then ran with 50 fps.
Dreamchess runs extreme fast.

I really need a modern computer with recent Nvidia/Ati cards for tests.
Writing installers or pre-packaged files without the ability to test them "live" is too erratic.

----------------------
Conclusion:
With a new testsystem, I would try this:
Start Puppy with Xvesa.
extract:
/usr/local/Xorgbackup/nvidia.tar.gz
in:
/usr/X11R7/
This extracts Nvidias OpenGL-libraries.

Then exit X.
then type:
rm -f /etc/X11/xorg.conf
nvidia-xconfig
xwin

Now it might work already.
If not, you had to follow my longer odyssee described above.
Mark

[MU]

Download the pack Muppy-FR083.pet from :
http://www.softenpoche.com/claroline/do ... cument.php (in the Muppy-FR repository).

Salut Guy,
This is password-protected.
Mark

[cthisbear]

MU:

I downloaded the newer Muppy...revision.
Goes great just like the last...one month ago.

Automount doesn't suit my needs...
if I need to recover damaged hard drives etc.
But all the same for most users...especially newbies from
XP and Vista this would be welcome.
I do like that it asks you whether you wish to unmount, when closing
the file manager.

Anyway this release - like the other is super smooth, fast
and looks good..
Well thought out and obviously hours of work.

Steve may want you to help code Windows 7?
when he's finished his scrambled eggs in Hungary.

One question though..is firewall on by default?

Again my compliments and regards...........Chris.

[gw]

Hello Mark,

Here is the correct link to Muppy-FR083.pet (localization of Muppy in french)
http://www.softenpoche.com/sep/Muppy-FR083.pet

gw

[cthisbear]

I got wireless working in Muppy on an Acer laptop -
Acer Aspire 3624WXCi.
Just so easy...first time that I've tried out wireless in Puppy.

No doubt this has worked in other Puppies and Puplets
of recent times.....but I have to say it was really good.
Always nice when you don't expect success and all goes well.

Is Firewall on by default remains to be answered though, please MU.

Can anyone tell me how Wine can be made to work...simplistically
or a link. I have set it up as XP on the Muppy Wine tool..
Do I just add a program link or what?....in Muppy.

I also like the SFS file being a different name, and therefore
not being overridden.

Once again MU...thanks....Chris.

[Barburo]

Hi Mark,
I was unable to install any version of puppy prior to version 3.xx on my HP Pavilion tx1000 notebook which has an nVidia GeForce Go 6150 card. The tx1000 has a reputation for being a bit difficult (according to Barry's posts).

When puppy's xorgwizard runs, it creates this section:

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "X.org Configured"
Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0
Screen 1 "Screen1" RightOf "Screen0"
...

allowing for two screens but the wizard only only defines screen0:

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Card0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes "1280x800"
EndSubSection
EndSection

The xorgwizard always fails for me (blank screen for test even though I choose 1200x800 and it returns null values for resolution).
If I then directly tweak xorg.conf by copying the screen0 definition to create an extra Section "Screen" with zeros changed to ones:

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen1"
Device "Card1"
Monitor "Monitor1"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes "1280x800"
EndSubSection
EndSection

then saving and exiting, the xorgwizard then works, and I get the correct 1200x800 screen resolution.
When I apply nvidia (as in Muppy 008.3) my external monitor (at 1440x900) is recognized by my nvidia card and it also displays correctly!

Hope this helps the nvidia discussion, and others who may have similar problems.

One note - installing Muppy standard allows this technique to work.
Muppy mini however doesn't allow this fix to work (not sure why - maybe because the nvidia components are in the addon .sfs files).

One other small thing - when rebooting or powering off the confirmation box "OK" button only responds to a mouse click.
Enter or tab + enter should work but doesn't.

[MU]

Thanks for the instructions to use 2 screens.
I encontered this too, on one system, and could not sort out yet, how to fix it.
I should try to write a script, that checks that issue.

The Nvidia-drivers (and propriatary Ati, and free DRI modules) are in addons.sfs for the Mini, so that must be added in the bootmanager.
Most cards run without it (but then not accellerated).
If a card completely fails, and so you get no chance to add addons.sfs, then you must use the Standard-Iso, where everything is included in the main sfs.

Mark

[tlchost]

I want to "slim-down the standard version a bit to allow me to install
some ham radio programs. http://www.w1hkj.com/emcpup.html

I use a lot of the standard distribution(some of which I understand) but don't play games at all.

Can I simply delete the games applications from my Live-CD and then remaster it?

I'm not sure with a Live-CD if I can really add in the sfs files
to the mini version to get the standard less the games.

Thanks in advance

[MU]

Important info for all Muppy users

The first message talks about bugs concerning Firefox and other applications due to unionfs.
Result is a "freeze" of those applications.

I think I found a very simple solution now.
Barry once added the alternative to unionfs, "aufs".
I think it was default in one version of Puppy 2, but then Barry switched to unionfs again.
Since yesterday I use aufs, and have no more freezes!
Aufs is very popular, it is used by Knoppix and Slax.
So it seems to be reliable.

To use aufs, simply do this:
1.) If you start from CD, type at the short 5 second bootprompt:
puppy layerfs=aufs

2.) If you run Muppy using Grub, add to the line with the Kernel:
layerfs=aufs

Like this such a line looks on my system:

Code: Select all

  title Muppy 0083 Standard AUFS
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /muppy0083/vmlinuz acpi=force layerfs=aufs pmedia=idehd pdev1=hda5 psubdir=muppy0083
  initrd /muppy0083/initrd.gz

You CAN use your old savefile with this change!

I made a test running on a Pentium 700 with 256 MB Ram using Muppy-Standard:
OpenOffice Firefox Seamonkey Opera Gimp Internet Explorer Xfe, all at the same time.
I had NO crash even after 1 hour.
Only Internet-Explorer caused 99% CPU-usage after I closed it, but that must be a different issue.

We will check aufs using a Minisys brute force penetration, and if no new problems appear, upgrade to 008.3E this weekend (with only change that aufs will be added everywhere as default, like in Universal installer, initrd.gz and so on).

Please report the results youu get, if you already check it on your own as described above.

Mark