Puppy WiFi Assistant is completed!!!!!

Using applications, configuring, problems
Message
Author
can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#46 Post by can8v »

The visitor interface is now complete and being tested by Aitch. Aitch will also be using the recently completed form for updating the db with new WiFi adapters, so fairly soon there should be some useful information to be had in the Puppy WiFi Assistant. Anyway once that all happens and I get some feedback from Aitch I will finish the development of this project.
kind regards,
can8v

User avatar
urban soul
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed 05 Mar 2008, 17:03
Location: "Killing a nerd is not as much fun as ist sounds" B.Simpson
Contact:

#47 Post by urban soul »

Cool.

Just to point out that what tempestuous said earlier: It is important to have the chipset info.

Vendors tend to change the chipset in use even within the same model revision!

Also the question on the forum is: Does WPA/WPA2 work ??? This is important, you name it, WEP is compromised.

Urban

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#48 Post by can8v »

@Urban
I agree that is important imformation, but I felt it should go in the notes section. Perhaps I should relabel it configuration notes instead of setup notes. The chipset is something you need to know (sometimes) in order to configure Puppy to work with the card. I thought it more important to no if the card is compatible and the location of the driver to use. If you know the driver to use then the chipset is not very relevant. It is when you don't know which driver to use that the chipset becomes extremely relevant. In, which case this application would not be especially helpful. This applications purpose is to assist people with sharing data about how they got their WiFi adapter to work in Puppy or which, adapter they were not able to get working and what they tried to do.
If someone knows the chipset of an adapter, but not the driver, then they would need to ask someone for assistance. Since this application does not facilitate discussion, the forum would be a more appropriate tool, Once the problem is solved the Puppy WiFi Assistant would then be an ideal place to record the solution, so that others could more easily find it. This application was prompted by a thread on the forum that attempted to consolidate the solutions for installing a great many WiFi adapters in Puppy, but it became very convoluted and difficult to find the solution you were looking for. That is the scope of this application. perhaps I could have come up with a grander vision for it. Greater clarity of communication in the beginning or more participation at the technical discussion level could possibly have steered this application in a dramatically different direction. As Aitch pointed out however, that level of participation was not forthcoming. right now I am very interested in getting this project completed, so it can start getting used, before I have to leave for Cub Scout camp, a wedding, church camp, and to put a roof on a church in Portugal. I have a very busy summer and I am trying to squeeze this project in amongst chaos. I did however, make this application very portable and easily modifiable, at some later date it is possible I could further expand its purpose and features, as well as create similar applications to help with printing, video adapters or whatever. These ideas may be getting ahead of the game a bit, but they are merely ideas right now.
can8v

User avatar
urban soul
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed 05 Mar 2008, 17:03
Location: "Killing a nerd is not as much fun as ist sounds" B.Simpson
Contact:

#49 Post by urban soul »

We appreciate the time and energy you invested. Take your time... work on the project when you feel it is fun...

Regarding the driver question:
You cannot state "Interface xyz uses THIS driver and works in Puppy 3.01."

The world would be nice if it were so simple. Unfortunately it isnt. Moreover this info is a bit redundant and may be even missleading. Imagine you go buy some recommended wifi card by this database. Vendors change chipsets every 3 month. The sentense that it works in puppy is not true anymore.

Dont feel critisised, however. You put up a great database and you are not responsible for the contents.

Urban

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#50 Post by can8v »

@urban
Interesting, so you are saying that someone may have a Brand X SuperDuperCard version 7.1 and someone else who has a Brand X SuperDuperCard version 7.1 could have different chipsets in their respective cards. I have yet to experience that. I have seen different chipsets between say versions 7.1 and 7.2, but not between two version 7.1 cards. This poses a major problem, as most people don't even know what chipset they have. So if I require the chipset to be entered into the db before the data is accepted then a number of people will likely not enter anything. Do you have any possible solutions to this. At this point it would still be fairly easy to add a chipset field, but to filter by chipset would be a chore at this point.

As far as the db being redundant you are right it is, it was never meant to do something never done before, it was simply meant to do it much better. The data could and has been entered into the forum; the problem is that it is difficult to get at the information for the exact card and puppy one is trying to use. Not many people want to scroll through a list of a few hundred cards that are in no particular order to find the card they have only to realize that the listing they found is for a different version of puppy and the instructions don't work, so they need to continue looking to see if there is another listing even farther down the list for the same card, but a different version of Puppy. This type of application is simply meant to replace and organize data that is found in such list, then make it sortable for ease of use.

User avatar
urban soul
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed 05 Mar 2008, 17:03
Location: "Killing a nerd is not as much fun as ist sounds" B.Simpson
Contact:

#51 Post by urban soul »

can8v wrote:@urban
Interesting, so you are saying that someone may have a Brand X SuperDuperCard version 7.1 and someone else who has a Brand X SuperDuperCard version 7.1 could have different chipsets in their respective cards.
Exactely. Normaly vendors call it 'revision'. So SuperDuperCard version 7.1 rev.1 has say a broadcom chip whereas SuperDuperCard version 7.1 rev.2 has a different chipset.

BUT it has also been known that some nasty vendors do NOT tell anything about it. No name china resellers e.g.

My solution is to buy from vendors who officially support linux, ralink e.g. But even ralink does not make things clear to the enduser. However you can find out without opening the case if you have the skills.

Urban

User avatar
Aitch
Posts: 6518
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 15:57
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

#52 Post by Aitch »

Do you have any possible solutions to this. At this point it would still be fairly easy to add a chipset field, but to filter by chipset would be a chore at this point.
I have a simple solution
if there is more than 1 solution for brandx card, whether it be rev 1 /2/3,
can be added to setup notes, as you suggest can8v, ,but also a listing of
a), b), c), etc, solutions could be given and dated, [I hope there is a space,
as I haven't got there yet, because the forum went down & I got involved in sorting a friends PC]
as people often refer to cards by 'when they bought them',
or 'early'/'late' versions

[I hope there is a space for such info, as I haven't got there yet,
because the forum went down & I got involved in sorting a friends PC]

What do you both think of this?
My solution is to buy from vendors who officially support linux, ralink e.g. But even ralink does not make things clear to the enduser. However you can find out without opening the case if you have the skills.
We have to also be realistic
Things change & I don't think this 'solution' was intended to be a 'be all & end all' fix. We can only say what is known to work, in these examples The rider being there's no guarantees in life's wifi :lol:


Aitch

User avatar
Aitch
Posts: 6518
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 15:57
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

#53 Post by Aitch »

I made an example
Attachments
wifiExample.png
Sample a) b) c) listing in setup info w/dates
could columns be available?
(71.25 KiB) Downloaded 326 times

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#54 Post by can8v »

@Aitch
I had in mind that each version of Puppy that the card is tested with would require a whole new entry, so that it could be searched by and sorted by the puppy version it is tested with. For example if someone is using 2.15CE and they want to buy a WiFi card they can search for all WiFi cards by whatever company they like, then filter out anything that doesn't work with 2.15CE If we only separate entries based on Mfg. model version and revision then put all of the puppies that it works with in one entry this is no longer possible. The application would still be vastly superior to a simple list, but not as easily filtered as it could be. What are your thoughts on this?
can8v

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#55 Post by can8v »

This is really not a huge thing. I am thinking it can be resolved by annotating which revision number if any was used for testing if any and the chipset if known. I will simply change the input form to include two more fields labeled something like this.

Rev. # if known:

Chipset if known:

When the form is submitted,if the user entered any text for these fields, I can have the script append that text to setup notes like so.
(just an example here)
revision: 3
Chipset: Atmel

This way if a user is searching for their card and they search by Mfg, model, and version they will see their revision and any other revision. This of course is assuming that someone has gone before them and entered it into the db.

User avatar
Aitch
Posts: 6518
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 15:57
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

#56 Post by Aitch »

OK,
Re: the first, maybe because there was no intro, which there will, presumably, be, on finished product

I think seperate entry is better, just at the mo' with so little in db it's hard to see/visualise how it's going to return with different search filters

you have an advantage over me as you know what it's going to/intended to do :)

re: the second

yes, it was just that I was thrown by losing all the data, for the sake of not filling a 'required field' when I was returned to the entry page

maybe an onpage backbutton to restore you to last entry attempt, with errors/omissions highlighted?

Aitch

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#57 Post by can8v »

I was able to spend almost three hours on this project tonight (first time in a few days). This few hours proved productive as I was able to fix all of the bugs and add almost all of the suggestions reported by Aitch and urban soul, as well as add some critical validation to keep users from inadvertently adding duplicate records to the db for the same adapter (determined by manufacturer, model, version and Puppy version). There are now revision and chipset fields that get appended to the setup notes. I hope to complete some more validation functions to help ensure accurate data entry. I plan work on this for about an hour either Saturday night or Sunday afternoon. Once the validation is completed I will upload the updated scripts from my localhost to the web server for testing. Hopefully this will be no later than Sunday, as I am anxious to complete the edit and delete functions, so we can have a somewhat comeplete application online. The final release will come about a week after that. Next week is the last week of school, before summer break. If the project is not complete before then, progress will pick up sharply thereafter.
Kind regards,
can8v

User avatar
urban soul
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed 05 Mar 2008, 17:03
Location: "Killing a nerd is not as much fun as ist sounds" B.Simpson
Contact:

#58 Post by urban soul »

yust one more note -

we have many Puppy versions. Let's say more than 20. Is it appropriate to have a 'per puppy version' entry?

If everybody can edit the 'notes' field, we can list puppy versions there. At the end it all breaks down to the kernel version and many puppys have the same kernel.

Urban

User avatar
Aitch
Posts: 6518
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 15:57
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

#59 Post by Aitch »

good point, urban

only thing, I see 'wrong' with it, without picking fights, is, even I don't know which kernel each puppy is based on, & that is already a nuisance factor to me!! :lol:

If the kernel version was hard wired into each puppy in a way to make it easily visible, [as I know howto with say, W98/2K], & it could be 'scraped' for our purposes, it might help the noob being asked to fill in details

If entering puppy version automagically changed the info stored in the db to popup & say 'you have kernel xxx.xxx'; then fine, no prob, but I don't know, can/should this be done, Jason?

Maybe it should be put in the db as kernel version,....... [as there's certainly less variations, & who knows what the future may hold?15 puppies per kernel version is not beyond possibility, eh?]..... as the v4 example when BarryK took the .25 kernel out & went back to the .18.1 or whatever, springs to mind, but I can't even be sure about that, as I don't use v4, it still seems too buggy to me, & I prefer my solid reliable type distro,
like 2.14&/orR

- what[2?] kernel[s?]? - no idea!! > :( > :x > :lol:

Aitch

User avatar
erikson
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed 27 Feb 2008, 09:22
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Contact:

#60 Post by erikson »

Aitch wrote:If the kernel version was hard wired into each puppy in a way to make it easily visible...
It is.

In rxvt simply type

Code: Select all

uname -r
Cfr uname - print system information at die.net for description of all possible options.
[size=84][i]If it ain't broke, don't fix it.[/i] --- erikson
hp/compaq nx9030 (1.6GHz/480MB/37.2GB), ADSL, Linksys wireless router
[url]http://www.desonville.net/[/url]
Puppy page: [url]http://www.desonville.net/en/joere.puppy.htm[/url][/size]

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#61 Post by can8v »

Okay,
Urban Soul and Aitch, both bring up good points on this issue, but I had already thought about this before I started development of this project in earnest. Here is what I came up with.
First of all I agree with urban soul that it is the kernel that is really important, but I don't really know (or more specifically don't have any assurances) that the zdrv_***.sfs file will include the same exact drivers from version to version. Certainly some drivers could be considered NOT crucial and taken out for a specific version or some other driver that was previously NOT considered crucial may be added in the future.
Second, Aitch's point of users not knowing what kernel their version they are using is also valid. Erikson is correct in saying that uname -r from rxvt is a simple way to find out the kernel being used, but command line scares the hell out of many people and while it is helpful for the user trying to find a WiFi card that will work with his version of Puppy, it is useless for the user that is trying to figure out which version of Puppy they need to get their existing WiFi adapter working.
Third, I had considered Aitch's question of should the application popup and say, which kernel the user has, based on their entry of puppy version, but I decided a better approach would be to simply (and automatically) append a list of all other Puppy version(s) that use the same kernel. Ultimately I decided against even doing this because of the first reason listed in this post (I have no assurance that all that the same drivers will be retained in the zdrv_***.sfs file, even between Puppies using the same kernel). Of all the options available this is the only option I can see myself being persuaded to adopt, primarily because of reason number two. Anyone trying to figure out which Puppy they need to make their existing WiFi work, would need Puppy versions listed, not kernel versions (you cannot use uname -r on a Puppy you don't have installed).
This is a sticky situation with no real great way to handle it and each of you have brought up good points and I thank you for the input. I would be willing to consider more input on the issue, as I acknowledge that even the solution I settled on is not great. The solution I settled on makes for redundant information in the db. It is something I am willing to live with if a better solution doesn't present itself, but hey maybe someone else will present a better solution.
Kind regards,
can8v

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#62 Post by can8v »

I have uploaded all of the changes mentioned in my previous post and some additional validation. I have a few more validation functions I would like to add, but I would like to get some user feedback on the new form for adding WiFi adapters to the db first. Also a couple of the features are not totally cross-browser compatible yet, such as that maintaining variables when using the browsers back button (not losing all of the form data). I will eventually add a JavaScript to auto-redirect back to the form with all of the form data in place, so users with JavaScript enabled won't have to click anything to get back to the form for making corrections. This should all get done in the next couple of days, if I get some user feedback fairly soon, however; there are only two testers so far, so this may take a little while. The edit adapter function will be relatively easy, so I hope to have it completed by the end of the week as well. That means, when school gets out for summer at the end of this next week I will have only the user registration system to complete. This will definitely be one of the most elaborate functions in the whole application. I still have not sorted out all of the details and I am even open to basic suggestions for how registration should take place. I am hoping to come up with a system that is not too elaborate and can be completed within a week (even on my tight schedule). That would give me a target release date of June 20, 2008. Of course the system will not be very practical until users input a substantial amount of data.
Kind regards,
can8v

User avatar
urban soul
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed 05 Mar 2008, 17:03
Location: "Killing a nerd is not as much fun as ist sounds" B.Simpson
Contact:

#63 Post by urban soul »

.
what is the 'search by date' for ? cant understand. It is the first thing I see...
.

can8v
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat 15 Jul 2006, 08:20
Location: Yuba City, CA
Contact:

#64 Post by can8v »

urban soul,
The search by date enables one to search the database by when the adapters were added to the database. For example if you are a moderator or if you are following the progress, waiting to see if anyone is going to added data for a particular card you own, you don't want to look at all of the old post. Perhaps you would like to just look at the last few days or weeks. Anyway simply input the start date and the end date of the range you would like to look in and the system returns all adapters that were entered into the database during that time.
regards,
can8v
p.s. I thought that feature was pretty self expanatory, but apparently not. Perhaps you could recommend a more easily understood label for this feature. Maybe I will also move it below the search by manufacturer function, which will obviously get more use.

User avatar
urban soul
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed 05 Mar 2008, 17:03
Location: "Killing a nerd is not as much fun as ist sounds" B.Simpson
Contact:

#65 Post by urban soul »

first, the db is not for moderators.

second how do i know the date format. it leaves me with a insecure feeling about what to do and why. (If it is a good php db you can sort it the way you want.) It looks like before I can use the db I have to enter two valid dates. 23.1.2008 -> correct format ?

third it is not important to the enduser WHEN the data was entered.
Can you hide these fields somewhere at the bottom of the page, so you have it still available?

Another thing: How do I enter data e.g.?

Urban

Post Reply