Starting Up "Living Water 3.01"

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Subito Piano
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#16 Post by Subito Piano »

Now how come i never seem to get notifications?!?!?!?!?!

OK, now for my ramblings thoughts...

First -- nice work, ttuxxx!! You are doing a good thing. Of course, you have to figure out your target audience. Good for you that you are aiming for the low-end machines, i think that is all the spirit of Puppy AND plain old good stewardship -- of money and possessions, plus it's against this rampant consumerism of our age. (My own laptop is a P1, 165Mhz, 40 MB RAM -- maybe just to prove it can be done!!! Alas, i can't find any Puppy for it...sigh...) Anyway, please do trim, trim, trim.

A question regarding your target audience: are you aiming for Puppy enthusiasts OR for Windoze-trained people? Another way to say this is, should a newbie to be able to figure out Living Water instinctively or rather is LW something that a Linux enthusiast would demonstrate and train others to use? Do you want this to be a good "first Linux experience" for those not accustomed to Linux/Puppy? The path you choose to walk your Puppy depends an awful lot on how you answer that question. (Gee, i'm starting to wax philosophical....)

I know PrairieDog had put together a preliminary beta of ChurchPup lite with wine and e-sword pre-installed. THAT would be sweet -- but permission would be needed from e-sword's author before making it generally available. Maybe that would be the best solution; e-sword is roughly equivalent to BibleTime and GnomeSword. I LOVE my BibleTime but i'm sure there's no way to include it without all that K-stuff weighing everything down. If you decide to try adding e-sword, PrairieDog might be able to give you some pointers or give you a copy of that ChurchPup lite beta. I mean, yeah, you're sharp enough to figure it out for yourself but it might save you some time if you knew how others got it all to work correctly. Also, there are a few web pages on installing e-sword with wine; i know you need the correct version of wine and to install what -- a dll somewhere special. A good friend of mine in town got it to work -- i can get hold of him or find those pages for you if you want me to -- just let me know.

OK -- long post. First version was really good. I'll be interested in what you come up with next!!

wpurcell
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#17 Post by wpurcell »

Hello! Here's the link: http://shepherdschapel.com/index.cfm
It uses Real or Windows media player. so I don't know if it will work in Linux.

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Subito Piano
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#18 Post by Subito Piano »

Somewhere i mentioned this, but here goes...

I contacted Rick Meyers about including e-sword in a release. He said no, that would violate the copyright, but suggested we make an installer like the Ubuntu CE folks did. Hmm..seems ChurchPup or LW could come with wine pre-installed and pre-configured to download e-sword (and maybe MS-TTF). Then a user could have a terrific piece of Bible Study software. (Yeah -- i'm thinking about trying to do thisover the summer -- HA!!)

By the way, is there a dotpet (or whatever they're called now) for automounting removable drives?

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ttuuxxx
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#19 Post by ttuuxxx »

Subito Piano wrote:Somewhere i mentioned this, but here goes...

I contacted Rick Meyers about including e-sword in a release. He said no, that would violate the copyright, but suggested we make an installer like the Ubuntu CE folks did. Hmm..seems ChurchPup or LW could come with wine pre-installed and pre-configured to download e-sword (and maybe MS-TTF). Then a user could have a terrific piece of Bible Study software. (Yeah -- i'm thinking about trying to do thisover the summer -- HA!!)

By the way, is there a dotpet (or whatever they're called now) for automounting removable drives?
Hi, at this point in time, "Living water" Is a small church related operating system, If I was to include wine 13mb plus e-sword 18MB, OpenGL 1MB, the release would increase 32mb just for 1 application, I would seriously have to think about it. Then its the whole bringing Windows to Linux issue. Plus wine isn't always easy to use, well I did spend 5 minutes with it once, I might have to re-look at it:) I could have 2 versions, with it and without. Decisions, decisions, what to do???
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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prit1
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#20 Post by prit1 »

@ttuuxxx: You could always have this as an add-on sfs package. Something like Grey is doing with NOP. Give additional SFS files so that folks who like plug in anything they want.
[url=http://macpup.org][b]Macpup - The beauty of linux[/b][/url] [b] | [/b] [url=http://pritlog.com/][b]Pritlog - Simple blog app[/b][/url]

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Subito Piano
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#21 Post by Subito Piano »

Decisions, decisions, what to do???
idk -- i'm kinda leery of anyone spending a lot of time on something few ppl end up using -- you know what i mean!?!!?! I haven't seen a lot of action on ChurchPup, so i'm not sure how much of a call for there is for an e-sword Puppy. I'm tempted (bad choice of word :) ) to play with this idea myself come August, based on Dingo. You're MORE than welcome to pick it up but i don't want you to go chasing after something that's not going to find a lot of users. You're doing a really good thing already!

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grouchyhermit
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#22 Post by grouchyhermit »

Subito Piano wrote:
Decisions, decisions, what to do???
idk -- i'm kinda leery of anyone spending a lot of time on something few ppl end up using -- you know what i mean!?!!?! I haven't seen a lot of action on ChurchPup, so i'm not sure how much of a call for there is for an e-sword Puppy. I'm tempted (bad choice of word :) ) to play with this idea myself come August, based on Dingo. You're MORE than welcome to pick it up but i don't want you to go chasing after something that's not going to find a lot of users. You're doing a really good thing already!
I would use it, esword is one of the few things I miss about windoze. It just seems to have more of a kick than the rest of the free Bible programs.

bill
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Churchpup and various distros

#23 Post by bill »

Being new to ALL Linux and what little I have tryed to add to Dingo.Well OK,I'm lying,I have thrown a lot of stuff at it ,some of it worked and some of it didn't but it has been a marvelous learning experience and if I have learned anything,it is the amount of effort people expend on these various distros ie. chasing dependencies can be a mind boggling thing for me.I think one of the reasons many people don't try various distros is simply because they haven't a clue what they contain and DLing ,burning ,auditing is also a time consuming project.I would hope the folks who post these variants might be inclined to say what programs are featured etc.which might generate more interest from the community.cheers,bill

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Subito Piano
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#24 Post by Subito Piano »

BILL - a lotta truth there -- but i THINK most distro's do list their contents -- not all, and sometimes it's work finding it all. I thought i read that someone is trying to organize such a page for Puppy derivatives, one which lists what each one is like, but you are correct that Puplet Parents ought to list the stuff they included. I continually find it easiest and best to find a distro that has what i want rather than to try adding much to it (for instance, music writing/Rosegarden is just NOT working for me unless it's like, in Musix Linux...!)

GrouchyHermit - There ARE pages on how to configure wine in Puppy -- do a search in the Puppy forums or maybe check the ChurchPup forums (old and new) as i think the link is there.

As far as Linux in general, Ksword and GnomeSword both are excellent Bible softwares (and people argue which is best, i know). They usually install fine if you don't mind a fatter distro (i.e., using KDE of Gnome). Somebody else can answer if there is Puppy version of K-sword for some of these bigger K-based Puppies like Fire Hydrant that would work. (Hint, hint, ttuxxx! :wink: )

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ttuuxxx
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#25 Post by ttuuxxx »

well guys at present I'm trying to build a smaller versatile puppy release based on puppy 4.0
Also finding newer church related programs,
As for the Ksword and GnomeSword issue, yes this has been on my mind for sometime, In the next up & coming "Living water" release I might Have an alternative release with Ksword or GnomeSword. Last time I had 2 versions, Firefox and Opera, Maybe this time I might just 2 versions, Have Firefox and Opera together in both and have 1 with Ksword or GnomeSword and one without Its just that the library's for gnome or KDE are so large for just 1 program. But I guess its a necessity for what the people want and need that it can't be over looked.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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Subito Piano
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#26 Post by Subito Piano »

Hmm -- 'been thinking about a small lightweight (??) ChapelPup based on Dingo pre-compiled to receive e-sword BUT it looks like you are already to tackle it -- and if i know you, you'll do it 1/10th the time it would take me and do it ten times better. K-sword, Gnome-Sword, e-sword, it doesn't matter much to me -- thank you ahead of time!
Last edited by Subito Piano on Wed 11 Jun 2008, 00:07, edited 2 times in total.

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ttuuxxx
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#27 Post by ttuuxxx »

Subito Piano wrote:Hmm -- 'been thinking about a small lightweight (??) ChapelPup based on Dingo pre-compiled to receive e-sword BUT it looks like you are already to tackle it -- and if i know you, you'll do it 1/10th the time it would take me and do it ten times better. K-sword, Gnome-Sword, e-sword, it doesn't matter much to me -- thank you ahead of time!
Actually might be a third release for the church administration/functions. But thats in the planning stage and is in the way distant future. Basically it would be made for day to day services of the church.
ttuuxxx

ps thanks for the vote of confidence :)
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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Subito Piano
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#28 Post by Subito Piano »

Oh - not to be misunderstood...that "hint" of mine meant "do you know if there's a way to run K-Sword on a KDE Puppy?" and not "would you build one?" That would be a little presumptuous of me. :oops: BUT if it's something you enjoy, then, like, go for it!!! 8) There seems to be a need and you seem to have (or MAKE) the time to put your experience to work on it. JanitorOfGod built ChurchPup and we seem to have lost track of him, although LOF is thinking of making ChurchPup final, pretty much as it now exists in beta. :?

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#29 Post by ttuuxxx »

Yes there is so many parts to it, packages, graphics, bugs, fixes, testing, it is a lot of work. Thats why it takes me so long to get it all together.
Right now I'm at the package stage, Then I'll move on to the ttuuxxx tv stage which Since I have the base it should be way quicker :)
last will be the gnome or kde because I can release the smaller version first.
But today I'm going to finish this other project I'm working on, Basically its graphic related. Hopefully in a day or 2 I'll be back on the church related project.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

PastorEd

Helping with Living Water

#30 Post by PastorEd »

Hello, everyone.

I've been lurking through these forums for some time now, but I thought I'd jump in and add my two cents.

To give you a bit of background: I've been pretty active in the Linux community for a few years: I originally volunteered with JAMD Linux, and then when that died, I moved to Vector Linux (helped them get some distribution issues worked out, and did some graphics for them), and then have been ping-ponging back and forth between Debian and PCLinuxOS/TinyMe.

I'm reading your conversation about K-Sword (I think you mean Bibletime?), and the necessary libraries to get it running. It requires:
- Sword libraries (just like JSword/BibleDesktop/GnomeSword)
- kdebase
- kdelibs

I've done an experiment and hacked it to run on a system with as few libraries as possible. Basically, what I did was find the Bibletime RPM (on my TinyMe distro), and downloaded (but did not install) it.

Once I unpacked the RPM, and moved the files into their locations, I did an
ldd /usr/bin/bibletime | grep not
and found all of the libs that were needed but not found. I then tracked them down one by one.

I suppose it would be possible to do the same thing in Living Water - just find the closest Slackware compatible file, and then track down the dependencies one by one, and then make a dotpup(?) containing both the Bibletime program, and its dependencies that are needed from KDE.

It's a pain in the backside to do, but it is doable...

KFJ - PastorEd

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Subito Piano
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#31 Post by Subito Piano »

A dotpet of BibleTime??!! Whoever does that will find many grateful souls.... Image

PastorEd

about Bibletime dotpup

#32 Post by PastorEd »

Please keep in mind that I'm not exactly volunteering to PACKAGE one for you, as I don't have Puppy installed on anything, and I've never made one of your packages.

I have, however, hacked together a couple of tgz files for Vector Linux back in the day. Checkinstall was my friend!

Perhaps I didn't make myself abundantly clear - what I was trying to do was to outline the process whereby I've hacked together a static package for Bibletime using another distro.

I assume, of course, that the process would work just the same on Puppy. But not having a Puppy installed, I'm not able to actually do it myself.

1) download an already-compiled Bibletime package from the most closely compatible Slackware version. Puppy Linux will run Slackware 12 packages, yes?

2) install the TGZ package WITHOUT checking dependencies.

3) ldd /usr/bin/bibletime | grep not
(this will find all of the unmet dependencies)

4) track down and download all packages with the missing dependencies.

5) DON'T INSTALL THEM - rather, just extract only the needed dependencies out of them, and put them all in the same place. If you want to be *really* elegant, create a series of symlinks that when the finished package is installed, the libs needed will go into /usr/lib (or whatever the Puppy equivalent is).

6) After all the dependencies have been tracked down, and the libs extracted, package Bibletime along with all of its required libraries into ONE dotpup, and name it Bibletime-static.dotpup

That's the process I'd do if I were trying to get Bibletime to work on a system that didn't have KDE installed.

((please note - since Puppy 4.0 has the gtk2 libs installed already, it would seem that Gnomesword would be a better fit for Puppy than Bibletime - but that's just a thought...))

KFJ - PastorEd

PastorEd

Another alternative

#33 Post by PastorEd »

I have another thought for you guys...

What about the Biblestudy app? I think the 2.0 version might be a bit heavy, but the 1.0 version might just do the trick for you...

http://downloads.sourceforge.net/christ ... g_mirror=0

You'll need some development libraries to compile it (I've had ZERO luck finding already compiled versions of Biblestudy anywhere), but it seems to require wxgtk, and I *think* that's a lot lighter than KDE or GNOME.

Just another thought...

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#34 Post by Subito Piano »

Hi PastorEd --

No, don't misunderstand me. I perceive a "need" here. Problem is, i'm "accidentally" a computer teacher (long story) & Linux enthusiast who plays with Puppy and finds it useful; i can remaster Puppy a little but i'm no good at so much technical stuff. I'm trying to light a fire -- if somebody will take the bait -- not necessarily you!

I do know i could probably install e-sword by following the directions, but i don't myself have a need for it (working distro isn't Puppy, sorry! Image) BUT i do think others "might" benefit from Puppy with a good Bible program installed, of the caliber of those mentioned. I fear a negative cost/benefit ratio here, however ("cost" meaning time invested), so i'm just tossing ideas around. Now, if i could get Biblestudy going in a remaster easily, i might go for it...but some of the things you've said are over my head, and there is only so much time to learn new things...sigh......

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#35 Post by ttuuxxx »

Subito Piano wrote:Hi PastorEd --

No, don't misunderstand me. I perceive a "need" here. Problem is, i'm "accidentally" a computer teacher (long story) & Linux enthusiast who plays with Puppy and finds it useful; i can remaster Puppy a little but i'm no good at so much technical stuff. I'm trying to light a fire -- if somebody will take the bait -- not necessarily you!

I do know i could probably install e-sword by following the directions, but i don't myself have a need for it (working distro isn't Puppy, sorry! Image) BUT i do think others "might" benefit from Puppy with a good Bible program installed, of the caliber of those mentioned. I fear a negative cost/benefit ratio here, however ("cost" meaning time invested), so i'm just tossing ideas around. Now, if i could get Biblestudy going in a remaster easily, i might go for it...but some of the things you've said are over my head, and there is only so much time to learn new things...sigh......
I'm already on it, :)
I'll have a look at it and see what is like, :)
But I have a feeling Gnome-Sword might be the way.
Thats what I'm starting to work on today :)
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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