Starting Up "Living Water 3.01"

[LaneLester]

K3b is indeed excellent, but then you have to load all the KDE stuff... I think.

Lane

[KF6SNJ]

No. There is already a dotpet file for K3b. I am using on ChurchPup on my tower and on MacPup on my laptop. I like it. Check out the dotpup/dotpet sub-forum.

[Subito Piano]

I LOVE k3b -- BUT idk how resource-intense it is, do you have an idea?

As far as Brasero goes, i first encountered it in antiX and found it both very intuitive and much to my liking.

Say -- we're using LW's forum to discuss ChurchPup. Ttuuxxx is a great friend to CP -- but maybe i should start a new forum for "ChurchPup2" or something like that?

Soooo...ttuuxxx, is this a good place to hold these discussions about ChurchPup? I feel like we're on NBC advertising CBS or something!! )

[ttuuxxx]

That is where I am forced to differ. If I were to try to retool ChurchPup, I would likely make K3b the default cd/dvd burner program. It has always worked well in my experiences, even on puppy.

Yes I like k3b also, I made it work with bibletime, Actually the k3b I made up has more plugins than any other k3b on puppy, But the bibletime on the other hand works well, just that some of the advanced options causes it to crash, I'll either have to look further into it or use gnome sword, If i was to use gnome sword then I could include brasero,gnucash . Or if I went with kde I could include k3b+kword+bibletime, So many options. I might just make the gnome sword as the small version and then add kde applications, would increase the size about 60mb and be around 250 MB ball park.
But first I'll have to work on bibletime
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

I LOVE k3b -- BUT idk how resource-intense it is, do you have an idea?

As far as Brasero goes, i first encountered it in antiX and found it both very intuitive and much to my liking.

Say -- we're using LW's forum to discuss ChurchPup. Ttuuxxx is a great friend to CP -- but maybe i should start a new forum for "ChurchPup2" or something like that?

Soooo...ttuuxxx, is this a good place to hold these discussions about ChurchPup? I feel like we're on NBC advertising CBS or something!! )

You can talk here, thats alright, I gives me ideas for living water:)
I was also thinking of expanding living water if I went with gnome, you see I would have the base installed and putting together applications to work on the base would be somewhat easy:)
ttuuxxx

[Subito Piano]

i wonder if LW is geared more toward personal use and PC should be geared more toward church ministry -- office apps, recording and editing, etc. Or maybe just two flavors of the same thing. Just tossing ideas...

What's your upper limit size-wise for LW? That's another good philosophical question. I don't know what the curve looks like, that as the size grows, the number of potential users drops off; or, how many either need or prefer a small- or medium-sized Puppy, and how many are fine with some of these St. Bernards that weigh in at 450+ MB -- ????

[ttuuxxx]

i wonder if LW is geared more toward personal use and PC should be geared more toward church ministry -- office apps, recording and editing, etc. Or maybe just two flavors of the same thing. Just tossing ideas...

What's your upper limit size-wise for LW? That's another good philosophical question. I don't know what the curve looks like, that as the size grows, the number of potential users drops off; or, how many either need or prefer a small- or medium-sized Puppy, and how many are fine with some of these St. Bernards that weigh in at 450+ MB -- ????

Well I would like to keep it around 150-180 MB I can add a lot with that size, But if I add to the gnome sword base say kb3+bibletime that will add around 50MB compressed pet, which would bring it to around 220
I really wanted to keep it small for slower pc's even thou I don't own one. Just so people wouldn't miss out. Most people can add just about any package to puppy 4.0 these days. I'll work on a small version and maybe I might release 2 version small and large.
The only thing this time around is browsers, Firefox 3 just isn't that stable on puppy and should be avoided . Firefox 2.16 will be updated until dec and still works fine, Opera is ok but some sites don't work with it.
I'm thinking either I keep Seamonkey or use Firefox 2.16 this time. With Firefox I can add the church skins and ProCon Latte
Any Ideas what people might want in a large version?
ttuuxxx

[LaneLester]

Some thoughts from a Puppy newbie:

I like the idea of two "Christian" Puppies: one for pastor/church office and one for individual Christian... particularly the younger ones. I'm leaning toward using Skinny Puppy as the main OS in my school lab, with CP and/or LW as grub options that students can get to know for future use.

I think OpenOffice is essential for a church version; maybe AbiWord would do for the personal one. Whatever is used for word processing needs to be able to read/write in MS Word format, and both of those can.

I hate it that Firefox 3 doesn't get along with Puppy, and I sure hope someone is addressing that problem.

Lane

[ttuuxxx]

Some thoughts from a Puppy newbie:

I like the idea of two "Christian" Puppies: one for pastor/church office and one for individual Christian... particularly the younger ones. I'm leaning toward using Skinny Puppy as the main OS in my school lab, with CP and/or LW as grub options that students can get to know for future use.

I think OpenOffice is essential for a church version; maybe AbiWord would do for the personal one. Whatever is used for word processing needs to be able to read/write in MS Word format, and both of those can.

I hate it that Firefox 3 doesn't get along with Puppy, and I sure hope someone is addressing that problem.

Lane

The church-Ministry Version I have planed after the next LW release.
Yes FF3 is a great disapointment, thats why I like 2.16 it runs nicely:)
It will be LW with other Ministry applications, and like you said Open Office, Some finance bookkeeping, Video applications , etc
ttuuxxx

[Subito Piano]

Well - i have questions!

I've never understood the difference (if any) between making Puppy fatter and making Puppy slower. Lots of added programs doesn't affect performance in any OS installed on a HD, but do the rules change with a live CD? Yes, if it all has to load into RAM to run -- but what about after you've created a pup_save file? Doesn't that radically increase speed if you are short on RAM? So what is a good compromise? Do we assume that LW is meant to be installed (through HD, frugal, or a pup_save file) ? Do sfs files work faster than adding, say, OpenOffice on?

Also - is JWM faster than IceWM? JWM is looking good as i mentioned elsewhere, perhaps it's time to use it with some nice new snazzy themes -- IF that represents a more economical use of resources.

As far as size goes, i think you already are cutting out redundant programs...like no need for 2-3 editors, 2-3 media players, without god cause.

FF with ProCon out-of-the-box (and maybe Adblock and the auto-updater?) would be good -- not everyone knows about ProCon and it's a great little program. Perhaps it should be pre-installed with the default settings turned on, but idk if Cornineum would appreciate that... Also, there's another content filter out there now but i haven't bothered to try it.

I have little use for AbiWORD but i know others love it. I need the presentations, webpage designer,and (yes) the graphic editor. Your call on that, there are always sfs files...

Well -- i got to get ready for my Career class...

[LaneLester]

I've never understood the difference (if any) between making Puppy fatter and making Puppy slower.

The points you raised are similar to what I fruitless sought for all over the Puppy home site and forums, namely, some basic information about what was going on under the hood? Just what gets loaded into RAM at boot? Do separate .sfs files for applications reduce RAM usage? I'm using office.sfs, into which someone put OpenOffice 3 and Adobe PDF Reader.

I don't use AbiWord, either, but it seems like it might be all the word processor that a lot of students would need.

Lane

[Subito Piano]

Advantage of AbiWORD: EXACT clone of MS-Word. Students don't have to learn anything at all.

Disadvantage of AbiWORD: EXACT clone of MS-Word. Students don't have to learn anything at all.

[LaneLester]

Advantage of AbiWORD: EXACT clone of MS-Word. Students don't have to learn anything at all.

Have you looked at the current version of MS-Word? MS went berserk in designing the interface. Gone are the standard menus that have served so well for so long: File Edit, etc.

I don't use it, but I've been in situations where I had to look at it. Ugh!

Lane

[ttuuxxx]

The Speed difference between the icewm package I compiled and jwm is really not noticeable. Icewm is small and fast, I make my themes around 250KB. For the main LW it will have gimp, Inkscape, Gnome sword, ttuuxxx tv, Galculator, Bible memorizer. Open song, daily message. I might be tempted to install the pidgin Package i compiled but its a bit large because MSN messenger works on it. Plus maybe just a couple of small church study programs.
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

Yes Ms Office 2007 is just too much of a drastic change. I never liked it, I guess you can get themes for it and make it look like 2003 also.
ttuuxxx

[Subito Piano]

I don't care for meebo but a link might be nice to add unless you know of a real lightweight multi-client IM. Overall a nice selection - OpenSong is really good for church musicians nowadays, the guys i showed it to were quite impressed (although they don't share my enthusiasm for Linux..)

[Subito Piano]

I'm a die-hard OpenOffice fan -- and i'd like to see at a minimum something included to show .ppt files, if not produce them. However, if you are thinking of adding k3b, would it be faster/more lightweight to use KOffice? I have no idea of the dependencies involved....

And of course, what about dealing with those stoopid .pptx and .docx, etc.. files??? Anything coming down the pike for our rescue?

[Subito Piano]

me again...

Just thinking (always a dangerous game for me to play) -- is LW2 going to be based on Puppy 4.0 or 4.1 (or other)? To my untrained eye, judging by the rc, 4.1 seems preferable over 4.0.

Also -- i understand why LW will include Firefox version 2.xx, at least until Mozilla or whoever fixes the problems running FF3 under Linux. That being said, perhaps it would be good to include a half-dozen themes and a few good extensions in the release. I say this because Mozilla's new website makes the user do a bit of digging to find the appropriate version 2 addons; it might be a nice touch to already have added some different themes and have a few choice extensions all set for users to install -- you know, several themes already loaded, plus on the first-time use of FF be presented an option to enable or not enable whatever extensions are included, such as adblock, filterset G updater, ProCon, Greasemonkey, whatever.

Anyway -- you are doing a LOT for Puppy all-around, not just LW...thank you! Just don't burn your candle at both ends.

[ttuuxxx]

me again...

Just thinking (always a dangerous game for me to play) -- is LW2 going to be based on Puppy 4.0 or 4.1 (or other)? To my untrained eye, judging by the rc, 4.1 seems preferable over 4.0.

Also -- i understand why LW will include Firefox version 2.xx, at least until Mozilla or whoever fixes the problems running FF3 under Linux. That being said, perhaps it would be good to include a half-dozen themes and a few good extensions in the release. I say this because Mozilla's new website makes the user do a bit of digging to find the appropriate version 2 addons; it might be a nice touch to already have added some different themes and have a few choice extensions all set for users to install -- you know, several themes already loaded, plus on the first-time use of FF be presented an option to enable or not enable whatever extensions are included, such as adblock, filterset G updater, ProCon, Greasemonkey, whatever.

Anyway -- you are doing a LOT for Puppy all-around, not just LW...thank you! Just don't burn your candle at both ends.

I like your ideas, I usually included firefox extensions and have a default theme when I make a release, The thing is that I've been working on "FirePup" and that might just be the best Firefox to use, Plus I Can theme it up.
I have been building everything on puppy 4.0, but I've been waiting around for a final 4.1 to be released. That to me would make the best base, due to all the upgrades over 4.0
Meanwhile I might like to see if I upgrade Firefox 2.0, because it has built in spellcheck, But first I might try to get it going on 1.5. Or I might just stick with 2.17 so many Firefox options these days

ttuuxxx

[Subito Piano]

oh, yes -- i googled for "firepup" and saw both your efforts at optimising FF for Puppy. Kudos!