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How best to make an internet cafe Puppy?
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gola10

Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat 01 Mar 2008, 09:20    Post subject:  How best to make an internet cafe Puppy?  

The computers are diskless Pentium III 256mb of memory + cdrom.

They are used in a LTSP system but if the server is out (very often) , the Internet Cafe must be closed. Puppy could be an alternative to replace but the iso i have tried (2.16) has so many softwares that could confuse a regular user and lack of others. I have tried to make my own iso but do not know how to remove unneeded software.

The regular user would wants to surf on the internet and others use openoffice which is on the LTSP installation and they like it. Other light weight software can not display Power Point documents and it is needed to.

Seamonkey seems ok but it must have other softwares that would let the user play flash, java, mp3 and those other addons needed to access internet. I am not an expert and was wondering if someone with experience has assembled a iso for that purpose.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4775
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sat 01 Mar 2008, 10:26    Post subject: safepup for simple menu  

With simple menu, Safepup would be the one for this setup, and if you can RDP to the LTSP server, you can still use OpenOffice as well as other big software. (RDP is in Control Panel in the recent Safepup). The ISO building tutorial is also there.

Edit: The pup_213.sfs base is 62 Mb but contains browsing capability as well as full multimedia suite, file management and other utilities. Pistoi0's pup_213.sfs build with tonicpoint and Java is 90 Mb. This will play well using live CD for the no-hard-disk PCs mentioned.

There is a new Safepup ISO with Java: Pistoi0 has packaged a pup_213.sfs that contains tonicpoint (PPT viewer with Java). You can get any Safepup ISO and replace the pup_213.sfs with pistoi's pup_213.sfs.

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Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? Get the sfs (English only).

Last edited by raffy on Sat 01 Mar 2008, 20:06; edited 1 time in total
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3429
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 01 Mar 2008, 19:32    Post subject:  

It's not puppy...but worth trying for your situation.

Made for Internet Cafe's by an Aussie in Sydney....103 megs?

Slower than Puppy....but a good comparison ...speedwise.
Test it against any Puppies you download.
Even run Puppies on most machines....and use this on one or two...for user response.

I have tried it myself....on old machines.
A very good first effort....and he has been on the Puppy forum.

http://cl33n.com/

http://cl33n.com/faq.html

" Why did you make cl33n?

I work one day a week for a charity-run community centre in Sydney, Australia. The community centre has an internet cafe with a severe virus and spyware problem.
I was looking for a Linux Live CD that is very easy to use. I tried lots of great Live CDs that I thought would work out well at the centre.

Unfortunately they didn't work out. Some were not compatible with the video cards in the centre's computers. Some were not intuitive enough for people who were beginner Windows-only users.
Some were painfully slow on the centre's computers.
Some would work great only if they were started up in a special way...and most of the time there was not a technical person around to help start up and reboot the computers there.
I loved all the Live CDs that I tried but for one reason or another I couldn't use them at the centre. cl33n is designed to be minimalist, simple, fast and compatible. It just does web browsing- that's all. "

////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you just had a 2 Gig USB....Ecopup would have been a good proposition as well. Normally 1 gig would be fine...but you would need to copy the save file. Maybe buy one USB...try that as well.

http://micro-hard.homelinux.net/puppy/Ecopup/index.html

http://www.deoss.org/positive/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=43%20target=

................................

Central Queensland University..good server for Ecopup:
Thanks again Neville Richter.

http://os.cqu.edu.au/iso/puppylinux/

..................................................

Regards ....Chris.
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gola10

Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun 02 Mar 2008, 20:48    Post subject:  

Thanks cthisbear i will take a look to cl33n.

raffy:
I has tried to replace on Safepup ISO pup_213.sfs with the one you suggest using isomaster. The iso is build but when booting, there is a Kernel panic message and everything stops.

What am i doing wrong?

Also, tried Safepup on a machine with 128mb of ram, i will run very slow, would it be a way to use the harddisk of another computer on the intranet running linux, as swap file for this 128mb ram computers? I would call it swap server?

Also, i would need to print from this diskless computers and almost any printer has drivers for windows, what if i had a windows computer on the intranet configured to print on every printer. Instead of trying to configure the printers on every linux diskless, could i use the windows machine to print?
I has been thinking that if there where a daemon running on windows that would read every document saved to a particular folder and print it, it would solve my problem. Does this exist?
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HairyWill


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 2949
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar 2008, 02:41    Post subject:  

Assuming you are setting up a windows print server, these instructions might be helpful
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/GenericSharedPostscriptPrinterOnWindows

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Will
contribute: community website, screenshots, puplets, wiki, rss
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4797
Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar 2008, 03:57    Post subject:  

cl33n seems to use DHCP only? Waste of space in Europe? Apart from which, it is much too big for deliverables and uses too much HW resource. MeanPup may be getting old but it's still the one to beat. 50Mb .iso is the challenge; I don't see many Puppy developers stepping up to the plate. An 100Mb .iso makes them 'also rans'. Any road up, Puppies are becoming like the 101 Dalmations, except without the family coordination, but that's another thread.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4775
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar 2008, 13:04    Post subject: 128 MB RAM  

For 128 MB RAM, you can remove the Textmaker word processor and Planmaker, and the new remastered size will be about 50 MB, net of drivers - the same as the original safepup build.

By the way, you said earlier that
Quote:
The computers are diskless Pentium III 256mb of memory + cdrom.
Surely, Safepup (and most Puppies) will run like a speed demon in 256 MB RAM Pentium III.

For 128-MB RAM machines, it will be better to use the built-in PDF reader to view presentations converted to PDF. (Re the bigger pup_213.sfs with Java, I will relay your test result to pistoi0.)

Safepup has both browser and FTP client, so you can collect files for printing in a server (as you were planning to). You can also tell students to use a website, www.drop.io , for submitting files for printing.

@Sage - I've already supported that position of yours, so perhaps you can start a separate thread about how to implement those ideas. And also remember that newer Puppies have drivers file included. Again, please use another thread for that.

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pistoi0

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar 2008, 18:17    Post subject:  

@gola10
@raffy

Something came to mind as I read your post about difficulties with my build of Safepup pup_2.13.sfs I encountered a kernel panic when adapting the build for a Thinkpad 700x and found I had to toggle apci. Raffy's original comes with apci=force. I suggest trying apci=on /=off =/force to see if any of those work. There is also the possibility that the upload is corrupt.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4797
Location: GB

PostPosted: Thu 06 Mar 2008, 12:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
...can start a separate thread about how to implement those ideas. .......Again, please use another thread for that.


Seems to have happened all over the shop without my intervention, raffy!
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Laberwurschd

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2008, 18:18    Post subject:  

Greetings!

Same here. I'm working on Puppy3.01 (more precisely "Muppy080" - for German localization) to use it in our school's internet café as the OS on all PCs (only floppies, harddisks and USB support, NO CDROM) as well as the OS on the gateway computer.

My unsolvable problem is that I simply can't get the network cards to work!! They're quite old: "3c905c-tx". I've read many threads on this website and many just stop (being a year old or more by now) without solving the problem. This is most annoying.

Same thing with my gigabit ethernet card (Linksys model). Even compiling the sources for the Linux drivers simply ends in endless error messages (I do have the correct devx....sfs and kernel-src.....sfs files!). It would seem that the Linux driver files (they got shipped with the CD) have syntax problems(???). How is a newbie supposed to get things up and running when even using the appropriate Windows driver (using the "ndis wrapper" function) fails but at the same time states that it should be compatible with the "sk98lin" module which of course can't find any new interfaces?

What is the problem with Puppy's network driver support? Other live CDs run just fine with my hardware (Knoppix or Ubuntu can handle the cards) so it can't be the cards themselves but must be a major flaw in Puppy's network driver package.

Who can help? Please! Otherwise I'' have to abandon PuppyLinux for my purposes which really would be a shame since otherwise it runs very nicely on these old PCs!

Thanks for any helpful hints!

Laberwurschd.
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muggins

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 6688
Location: lisbon

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2008, 19:06    Post subject:  

Laberwurschd,

I'm using pup216 at the moment, but are you sure that the required modules aren't already available for pup3.01? Does entering the command modprobe 3c59x work?
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Laberwurschd

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2008, 19:24    Post subject:  

Hi muggins,

muggins wrote:
are you sure that the required modules aren't already available for pup3.01? Does entering the command modprobe 3c59x work?

I never doubted that the modules were present. The module "3c59x" for instance isn't listed but loads well anyway if you specify it. My problem is that the network interfaces won't get detected! The Network Wizard seems to recognize that there is a card that hasn't been initialized yet so it offers to load a module but doing so won't change a thing, because successfully loading any module won't make the system detect the interface in question (as is the case with all the auto-probed modules).

In one PC (internet café gateway) I've got two network cards where one gets detected correctly whereas the other doesn't. Since my 100MBit card is an integrated model it might supress the added 1000MBit card (a theory I get after reading too many forum threads here) but this shouldn't happen as it isn't the case with other live CDs (linke Knoppix or Ubuntu) either!

Thanks for your answer, though. I appreciate it.

Laberwurschd.
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2008, 20:26    Post subject:  

try to type
ifconfig
to see what cards are there.
If you have 2 cards, there should be eth0 and eth1

Try
ifconfig eth1 up
to activate it.
Maybe the network-wizard just gets confused by the 2 cards.
You might also have to run
dhcpcd eth1

I also googled for "3c905c-tx linux"
There were very old messages from 1999 showing problems.
Nothing that helped me though.
If you have a system that works, please type
lsmod | more
to see what kernelmodules are loaded.
It is important to see, if the working Linux really uses 3c59x.ko or another one with special patches.

Mark

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Laberwurschd

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2008, 21:19    Post subject:  

Hi MU,

thanks for your reply!

My post was a bit confusing I guess. There are two different kinds of computers I'm working on right now.

1.) A "client PC" which is a Muppy080 frugal installation (with a msy_save.sfs) on an ext2 partition. This kind of computer has just one networks card which doesn't get initialized properly. I can successfully "modprobe 3c59x" but the wizard won't detect any new interfaces however.

2.) A gateway computer (PC) also with a Muppy080 frugal install and also on an ext2 partition but with two different network cards. One card gets properly detected and initialized (its an integrated card with 100MBit). The other card ("Linksys" model with 1000MBit) doesn't get initialized but the system seems to be aware of it since the wizard offers me to load some modules.

I can tell you more about the issue of computer type1 when I'm back at school. Concerning the gateway PC I can answer your questions:

MU wrote:
try to type
ifconfig
to see what cards are there.

There are two things: "eth0" and "lo". There is no "eth1" however.

MU wrote:
Try
ifconfig eth1 up
to activate it.

Throws the following error "ifconfig: SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device".

MU wrote:
I also googled for "3c905c-tx linux"
There were very old messages from 1999 showing problems.
Nothing that helped me though.

Same here. A solution seems to be to use 3c59x instead which seems to work like a generic 3com driver...

MU wrote:
If you have a system that works, please type
lsmod | more

I will report back from school where Knoppix managed to successfully power the networks card and tell you the outcome of lsmod.

Concerning the GBit LAN card in my gateway computer I can already tell you this: It has "sk98lin" loaded (which Muppy had told me when I wanted to load a Windows driver with the "ndis wrapper" option, but failed to detect new interfaces), size is 156512 and it seems to be used by "0" - maybe because at the moment I have no cables plugged into the network cards. The other card (eth0) is powered by the same driver Muppy already provided.

As promised I will report back as soon as I have new information.

Thanks for your ideas!

Laberwurschd.
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Laberwurschd

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2008, 15:23    Post subject:  

UPDATE: The 3com ethernet cards got correctly recognized as soon as I added the file zmsy_080.sfs to the other files on the hard drive. It seems that I didn't copy this file onto the hard drives due to my ignorance. I didn't know that it contains many important drivers. Module "3c59x" did the trick and it could be loaded as soon as the additional driver file was present on the hard disk drive right "next to" msy_080.sfs and the like. In fact I didn't have to load it manually anymore!

As for my gigabit Linksys LAN card: As I have already written Knoppix loads the "sk98lin" module in order to detect the card and use it as eth1. Muppy doesn't detect any new interfaces with its own "sk98lin" module... After I copied Knoppix' version of "sk98lin" onto my hard disk drive and tried to load it from inside the network wizard all I got was "...failed to load module. Try another driver instead." It would seem that Knoppix' "sk98lin" file is of a different design...? It would also seem that Muppy's "sk98lin" module can't accomplish the same things that the Knoppix version can.

So much for today (had to work). Thanks for bearing with me.

Laberwurschd.
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