Install Puppy without VFAT partition?

[gliezl]

how can i install puppy in a real linux partition without existing VFAT partition.

hda1 /boot
hda2 /
hda3 /home
hda4 /usr
hda5 swap

can this be possible for puppy? I happen to experiment on Gentoo.
I like this implemented on my Puppy. Can you please help me or teach me how? I have an idea but don't know how to start. Will i edit /etc/fstab?
What will i use, grub or lilo for this one?

[gliezl]

will it affect its performance?
thanks!

[MU]

Glizl, it is a little bit slower, but still fast, see also here: http://www.murga.org/%7Epuppy/viewtopic.php?t=2655

Here are instructions on how to do what you asked for.
I might have mistakes in it, so if you get errors, write them own and post them here, so that we can help further


Ok, create some partitions on your harddrive.
I suggest to use a grafical tool like QTparted.
it is not available for Puppy, but the widespread "Knoppix" has it onboard.

hda1 /boot - can be very small, 20 MB (I use 100 MB to be flexible)
hda2 / - can be small, maybe 200 MB.
hda3 /home - should be larger, maybe 500 MB
hda4 /usr - should be very large, the largest.
hda5 /swap - should be double size of your RAM. But also 200 MB is a good value.

When you created the partitions, reboot with a puppy-CD and run "setup- install puppy-harddrive"

When it asks where to install, choose the big hda4

Skip "Grub" in the end.
Now mount all these partitions in "MUT" and copy some files with rox from the new hda4 to the other ones (activate "show hidden files !") :

everything in /root/ to hda3
everything in /boot/ to hda1
everything else EXCEPT /usr to hda2
everything in /usr/ to / (one folder up)

when I say in/root/ , then I mean the files in it like .jwmrc, but not /root/ itself.
So on hda3 you should have .jwmrc and so on, but not /root/.jwmrc


Now open hda2/etc/fstab in beaver, and replace it with these lines:

Code: Select all

/dev/hda2     /            ext2     defaults               0 1
/dev/hda1     /boot            ext2     defaults               0 1
/dev/hda3     /root            ext2     defaults               0 1
/dev/hda4     /usr            ext2     defaults               0 1
none          /proc        proc     defaults               0 0
none          /dev/pts     devpts   gid=2,mode=620         0 0
/dev/fd0      /mnt/floppy  auto     noauto,user,rw         0 0
/dev/cdrom    /mnt/cdrom   iso9660  noauto,user,ro         0 0

Save and exit.


Now run "control-panel - Grub Bootloader Config"
It will ask what partition to use: select hda1 (/boot)
Then it asks where to install grub itself, select MBR.

Choose "install" and Exit.

Now on hda1 should be /boot/grub/menu.lst
Open it with beaver, and replace the content with these lines:

Code: Select all

timeout 10
color black/cyan yellow/cyan

title Puppy Linux-HD
kernel (hd0,0)/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 
initrd (hd0,0)/image.gz

Now reboot your computer without the CD, you should see the Grub-menue with your Puppy

[GuestToo]

i would copy vmlinuz, image.gz and usr_cram.fs to one of your partitions (option 1 install)

that's it ... Puppy is installed

i don't know why anyone would do an option 2 install

you have to edit menu.lst or lilo.conf to add a Boot Puppy option ... my menu.lst file has a Puppy entry that looks something like this:

Code: Select all

title = Puppy Linux
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PFILE=pup001-none-262144 PHOME=hda1
initrd /image.gz

change the partition to the one you want to use

you can mount your partitions when Puppy boots by putting something like this in rc.local:

Code: Select all

mkdir /mnt/hda3
mount -t ext3 /dev/hda3 /mnt/hda3

the partition you copied vmlinuz, image.gz and usr_cram.fs to will already be mounted as /mnt/home

[Walt H]

i don't know why anyone would do an option 2 install

If it is to be our primary or even our only OS, why not? Personally, I want a system installed on my hard drive, and I like the idea of starting small and building it up to what I want (sort of the opt-in approach) rather than cutting down from something large with a bunch of stuff I don't want, need, or use (the opt-out approach). I also don't want to have to have another OS on my machine if all I plan to run is Puppy. Especially now that we can compile applications for ourselves, what is the point?

[rarsa]

How can i install puppy in a real linux partition without existing VFAT partition.

That's a strange question and very strange answers. I didn't know that you need a VFAT partition.

Mark's (MU) explanation has the real answer to your particular question for having dedicated partitions. (I still don't know why a home user would like to do that).

My only comment with Mark's explanation is the sizing for the partitions.

The size of the partitions depend on your particular needs and the size of your HDD.

hda1 /boot - can be very small, 20 MB (I use 100 MB to be flexible)

If you have HDD to spare, then 100MB is OK. If not, use at least twice the size of the actual contents to have room to manouver in case you need to play with a different kernel.

hda2 / - can be small, maybe 200 MB.

As you will have /tmp and /var, etc in this partition, you will need more if you have applications that create large logs, or if you have heavy print requirements that would require a large print spool, etc.

hda3 /home - should be larger, maybe 500 MB

Size it depending on the size of the files that you will work with. If you will work with large files (download an large ISO, or process video or sound, etc) you will need as much as you can. I personally think that this should be the largest of the partitions.

hda4 /usr - should be very large, the largest.

Id you only want your computer to install applications, I agree. If you want to install applications and use them with real data, consider the size of the applications that you want to install, and allow room for installing more applications. Saying that it should be the largest is risky, I have a 160 GB HDD, does that mean that I should make this partition 159 GB? I don't think so.

hda5 /swap - should be double size of your RAM. But also 200 MB is a good value.

This was my original rule of thumb... until someone pointed out that the more RAM you have the less swap you will need. I have 500 MB RAM and when processing video, I barely use 100 MB from the swap. The truth is that if you use more swap than your physical RAM regularly, it's time to buy more RAM because the computer takes mor time swapping than working. Swap should be emergency RAM. (Like having overdraft protection on your checking account).

I know that you want to know how to do this with puppy. Splitting it the way you propose is very nice for learning.

Having said all that... In a real production environment, unless you have specific requirements based on your number of users or backup requirements limited by the size of your partition, it is better to have less partitions. If you have too many partitions, some of them will have more space than what they need, some will have less. It's a loose loose situation.

So, bottom line: Try to get a good understanding of the technical reasons for splitting the partitions.

[MU]

Hi Rarsa,

I prefer a large partition for /usr, as applications spread their files there (/usr/lib , /usr/share and so on).

In case my /home gets too small, I create a symlink:

Create a folder /mystuff on the /usr-partiotion, then symlink /home/mystuff to this folder.
Same can be done with /tmp, if it gets too small.

I think this is easier than linking subfolders of /usr to other partitions, when it runs out of space.

I personally prefer a different system:
One partition for / , one for /home, one or more for /stuff1 /stuff2
I agree 160 GB for one partition is too much.
If you have more than one big, you still can use the others, if one gets corrupted by bad sectors (though that would indicate to replace the harddrive soon).

You are right, there is not "the" best solution, it depends on your usage and preferences.

Greets, Mark

[rarsa]

Point taken.

I forgot to add: When I move partitions around I always want to be careful:
1. copy the partition contents first
2. Modify my fstab to point to the new locations
3. Reboot and test the new set-up
4. Delete the old directory

For example

Code: Select all

mkdir /mnt/newhome
mount /dev/hda3 /mnt/newhome
cp -a /home /mnt/newhome

Do something like this for all the directories you want to move
Modify the fstab
Reboot

If everything is OK
mkdir /mnt/oldroot
mount /dev/hda4 /mnt/oldroot
rm -fr /mnt/oldroot/home

Do something like this for all the directories you moved

Disclaimer
Please note that I'm doing this 'blind' (without actually doing the commands). While I've done this several times I cannot guarantee that I gave you the exact commands (I think I did). Consider this is just a guideline so you understand what needs to be done.

As you are starting with a new installation, the risk is practically null, if you do something wrong, you just start again and do it right.

[gliezl]

Well, it's only an experiment. That's the way I learn new things, even if I don't even have a logical reason why. It's just I want to satify my curiosity. And seeing all your replies will help me get what I need.

Thank you guys!

P.S. So why does Gentoo & Freebsd have many partitions?

[MU]

P.S. So why does Gentoo & Freebsd have many partitions?

Hi Gliezl,

I think the main reason:

It comes from using those systems with many users as a server.
If the / -partition is full, the system does not work correct.

So if /home is on an different partition, the users can not fill up /.
There are other ways to go around this, too (Quota - each user just gets limited amount of space). But I think the solutions with several partitions is older.

Another reason will be updates.
If you want to replace a system, you can erase /usr , unmount /home, and install a new system.
Then you mount /home again, and have a new system with the old userdata.

For a personal Desktopsystem that can make sense too, but is not really needed.
You also could TAR your /home-folder and backup it on a CD when you install a new system.

In Germany we say: "Many ways lead to Rome" (there are always several possibilities to do something).

Greets, Mark

[gliezl]

It comes from using those systems with many users as a server.
If the / -partition is full, the system does not work correct.

Things are getting a lot clearer to me.

So if /home is on an different partition, the users can not fill up /.
There are other ways to go around this, too (Quota - each user just gets limited amount of space). But I think the solutions with several partitions is older.

How would you create quota for each user?

Thanks for your fast reply!

[MU]

I think quota need a special software-package, I don't know details about it.

Here is a HowTo:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Quota.html

Ohoh, 6 am... must go asleep now
If you have more questions, I will try to answer them this evening

Good night, Mark

[rarsa]

would copy vmlinuz, image.gz and usr_cram.fs to one of your partitions...

etc...

you have to edit menu.lst or lilo.conf ...

If you only copy the three files you mention, where is grub going to find the stage and menu.lst (grub.conf) files?

Are you assuming that there is already a /boot partition?

[gliezl]

Hi, can someone among the developers create a Puppy 1.0.5 install cd? And would be similar like Vectorlinux installation.

[rarsa]

Why Gliezl? Do you want to experiment how Puppy looks with a crippled installer?

Puppy HD installer is quite simple and effective. I have my list of pet peeves with vector installer. (not as long as my pet peeves with slackware's installer, but still anoying).


What characteristics of the Vector installer do you like?

[GuestToo]

Are you assuming that there is already a /boot partition?

yes, i assumed gliezl already had gentoo installed and wanted to install Puppy to the same hard drive ... i thought that the quickest and easiest way to install Puppy would be to copy the 3 Puppy files to one of the gentoo partitions ... since grub or lilo would already be installed, all that would be necessary to boot Puppy would be to add a few lines to menu.lst or lilo.conf

reading the first post again, maybe this is not what she intended doing (or maybe it was)

however, it would still be the quickest and easiest way to install Puppy on one of her hard drives ... to copy 3 files to one of the gentoo partitions and add a few lines to menu.lst ... if she wanted to install an option 2 Puppy later, she could do that too

[rarsa]

My impresion is that she want's to start from scratch. Apparently we all jumped with our own unchecked assumptions.

Gliezl: Do you already have a distribution installed? Are the partitions that you listed already in the HDD or is that the target partition scheme?

[gliezl]

Why Gliezl? Do you want to experiment how Puppy looks with a crippled installer?

So Vectorlinux has a "crippled installation"

Puppy HD installer is quite simple and effective.

Yes I agree and I like it that way.

What characteristics of the Vector installer do you like?

it goes something like this:

Puppy Linux installation options:

[X] Icewm & xwindow
[ ] jwm desktop
[X] base
[ ] Open office
[X] Abiword & Gnumeric
[X] Grub
[ ] Lilo
[ ] FTP server
[ ] HTTP server
[ ] Puppybasic
[ ] Krazypup
[X] Apps

[rarsa]

My first thought is that something like that will make the ISO fatter as you will need to include all the alternatives in the CD.

I've been thinking about an alternative Fatter ISO that still runs a slim puppy. I've posted some thoughts in another thread http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=15783#15783. Right now, just thoughts.

[hendrikus]

Mark,

I think quota need a special software-package, I don't know details about it.

Here is a HowTo:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Quota.html

Is there somebody compiled Quota for puppy? I have some problems compiling it, it needs many libraries who are not available in devx.

regard's Hendrikus