Menu in other languages

Message

Lobster · #1 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 04:33

I have long thought the Puppy menu is too complex and should be available in other languages.

Barry has created the menu as an xml file.
For 1.0.5 this is in root as a hidden file (for JWM) called .jwmrc

If you go there with ROX and right click display / show hidden
You will see this file

Rename it .jwmrc_old and replace with the enclosed file (gunzip it with MTToolsFM - what a mouthful that is) then put it in root and rename to .jwmrc

Now if you refresh the JWM from Start you will see the changes

You can edit my file further or translate to your language (please post language modifications)

Have no idea if what I am doing is safe or sensible but it works

rarsa · #2 Post by **rarsa** » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 04:47

Hi lobster,

I think that its a good first step, although I still think that the application name should show on the menu. Maybe between brackets.

It is also safe as long as you don't modify the icons for some of the entries as the only way for dotpups to know where to insert themselves in the menu is by searching for something that exists in the original puppy.

If people play too much modifying the menu, some dotpups will be unable to add themselves to the menu.

As you just modified the descriptions, the risk is minor, (but not zero).

Another clarification. The XML file is not puppy (or Barry) specific. It is the format used by JWM as designed by Joe.

Lobster · #3 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 05:16

rarsa wrote:Hi lobster,

I think that its a good first step, although I still think that the application name should show on the menu. Maybe between brackets.

Yes I did think of doing this at the end of the program
eg Unzip File Manager (MTootsFM)

rarsa wrote: It is also safe as long as you don't modify the icons for some of the entries as the only way for dotpups to know where to
insert themselves in the menu is by searching for something that exists in the original puppy.

A h h h . . . Shame about that . . . 'coz I thought changing these graphics to a Chinese/Hebrew/Arabic or other characters as a graphic would be a way of offering foreign scripts . . .

rarsa wrote: If people play too much modifying the menu, some dotpups will be unable to add themselves to the menu.
As you just modified the descriptions, the risk is minor, (but not zero).

Yes this was my concern - that is why I was hoping it was the sort of thing thoughtjourney might like to add to her JWM configurator? - so we could swap between Simple / full menus
Because JWM is using XML this makes it ameniable to this sort of modification.

As JWM is the default we could offer menus in different languages?

rarsa wrote: Another clarification. The XML file is not puppy (or Barry) specific. It is the format used by JWM as designed by Joe.

Many thanks for adding your knowledge. As a general programming point . . . is it possible for us to make MORE use of XML? Such files are easy for anyone to understand and modify and can be called and modified in a variety of ways . . . Perhaps that is a topic for another thread . . .

OzzyBB · #4 Post by **OzzyBB** » Sat 22 Oct 2005, 08:58

Hello all.

I just edited the "jwmrc" file to give it a Spanish language face to the Puppy. I'm posting it here, hoping it will be useful as a first step to give it a truly Spanish language interface.

If you people find it useful, I'll follow with the main Puppy help file (and of course, I'll post it right here).

As you may see, I'm giving it the filename "jwmrc.zip", so any user who gets this file will need to rename his/her existing ".jwmrc" file (just as Lobster said), then extract my file to ".jwmrc", then restart JWM to see the change.

Please let me know of any observation you may have for it.

Warmest greetings from Peru,

Oswaldo Bellido
"OzzyBB"
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hola todos.

Acabo de editar el archivo "jwmrc" para darle a Puppy un "rostro en espa

Lobster · #5 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 22 Oct 2005, 10:07

My Fellow Peruvians (I am Peruvian in spirit),

I have put a link here under "A Qui" - which I think means "whats this" but it could mean anything . . . My Spanish is no better than my Indigenous Peruvian - there is I hope such a thing . . .

http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/SpanishLanguage

Support for other languages is important, even though Puppy is primarily developed for English.

When I was using WIndows (an almost working operating system for sheep) I used an email client from China called Foxmail. It was thankfully translated into English. Two Puppy derivatives (if they are indeed based on Puppy as has been suggested) were originally translated and available in Serbian (Mitrax Linux) and Latvian (Austrumi Linux). What I wonder is what is being developed in languages I have not even heard of? For example "Mozart" - wait a minute that is a programming language . . .

OK better not say anymore . . .

OzzyBB · #6 Post by **OzzyBB** » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 04:49

Hello All,

Since I started translating the Puppy main menu, I had in mind translating the help files and getting Spanish language versions of the main programs (Firefox, Open Office, and so on).

Well, this is the first step in the help file translations. It's called "index-es.zip", so all the user needs to do is download it and extract it to "index.html" in the appropiate destination folder (/usr/share/doc). Of course, the user is encouraged to make a backup of the original help file.

Please note that so far, I've only translated the main help file. I have not touched the other help files nor their links. I guess this is what Barry calls a "work in progress".

Warmest greetings from Peru,

Oswaldo Bellido
"OzzyBB"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hola todos.

Desde que comenc

Lobster · #7 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 08:11

Good news I was going to place a link here

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/SpanishLanguage

and found you had already done so

A lot of pages on the wiki have been translated over the last few days into Spanish. Remember that you can click on a persons name and send them a pm (private message) from this forum

Puppian is translating (not sure how the display will work out) into two versions of (I assume) Mandarin Chinese. One version is used in Hong Kong and Taiwan and I believe the other version is used in mainland China . . .

Initially I used babelfish (use Google ex-Windows users - your time of helpless haplessness must end . . .) for translating - which I think gave endless amusement to those who actually spoke the languages

Good luck to all our Spanish speaking Puppy friends

What language can you translate Puppy into - even if just a bit? Go for it!
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

PS. Putting George Bash ramblings in, you must remember GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out)

OzzyBB · #8 Post by **OzzyBB** » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 05:39

Hello again,

I just translated the second help file, the "HOWTO Internet dialup". As before, you just need to download the compressed file and extract it to /usr/share/doc/HOWTO_Internet.htm.

Now I wonder, isn't anyone out there willing to give me a hand here? I'm doing this on my free time, and it's really not that much to say. I'm worried that at this pace, I'll end up one or two Puppy versions behind.

Warmest greetings from Peru,

Oswaldo Bellido
"OzzyBB"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hola de nuevo.

Acabo de traducir el siguiente archivo de ayuda, el "COMO conectarse por tel

Guest · #9 Post by **Guest** » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:08

Hi OzzyBB and isntfunny.

I plan to post this on both threads since it appears that you 2 don't know or realize that the other one is also working to get Puppy into Spanish.

dewdrop

Puppy Power - thread is: Puppy in other Languages

Cutting Edge - thread is: Menu in other Languages

dewdrop · #10 Post by **dewdrop** » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:20

removed

dewdrop · #11 Post by **dewdrop** » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:21

Hi OzzyBB and isntfunny,

The previous post was mine to both of you on this thread. Somehow I was signed in, then I wasn't......quien sabe que paso...

dewdrop

rarsa · #12 Post by **rarsa** » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 16:25

Por cierto, el standard de menus xdg que estoy implementando en Puppy soporta multiples idiomas.

Solo se necesita aggregar una linea en cada archivo <application>.desktop para que aparezca en el nuevo lenguage en los menus de todos los WM (se basa en el locale)

por ejemplo:

Code: Select all

Name=Paint
Name[es]=Dibujar

=====================
By the way, the xdg menu standard I'm implementing in Puppy supports multiple languages.

The only requirement is adding a new line to each of the <application>.desktop files for the new label to appear in all WMs menus. (It decides based on locale)

For example:

Code: Select all

Name=Paint
Name[es]=Dibujar

isntfunny · #13 Post by **isntfunny** » Fri 04 Nov 2005, 19:08

Thank you Dewdrop.

Hola OzzyBB,

Wow! Suddenly everyone speaks spanish here!

Yes, I'd like to see a spanish running version of Puppy. Not for me (I hate translations, hehe, particularly those made for household products' manuals from asia) but for all the difusion I'm planning to give Puppy Linux in argentina, as an excellent approach to both Linux and IT.

OzzyBB, I just had a look at your index.html, so to discover you are translating the documentation on the CD (am I right?). I was translating some of the wiki pages but as you said, is kind of endless and I ended up wondering what would be the point of translating if nothing was going to be done to the actual software.
Now I see something is being done, but as I'm new to linux I felt kind of lost, wondering about the real chances of having internalisation done. What I mean is, when a new package is selected to be member of a new version of Puppy, is it taken into account its readiness to be translated? Further; was that package planned in design to be i18n? And something else, as I was translating incomplete help pages on wiki: what if the original pages I translated were modified? So I think translating is fine, but not without a proper order, organization, communication, etc...

There is plenty of good stuff out there, Ian's pages, etc, but are they properly organized, not redundant, etc.?
Anyway, just thoughts.

Marcelo.

OzzyBB · #14 Post by **OzzyBB** » Sat 05 Nov 2005, 04:30

Hello all!

Well, this is really unexpected! So there was someone else translating the Puppy wiki pages? That's great! And I agree, we should begin organizing ourselves to make the best of our efforts.

Rarsa, I'd like to give your menu system a better look.... if I got it right, you could actually write in several languages into a single menu file. So, I would just need to write the appropiate menu titles into that file, and the user would have to select Spanish in the localization script to activate it.

Isntfunny, I know what you mean, regarding translated user manuals. I think they must be done by a machine.... I hope I'm doing better than that.

Dewdrop, thank you for telling me about isntfunny and telling him about me.

Now, here is my plan for a Spanish language Puppy:
1. Translate the main Puppy menu (done).
2. Translate the help files (just started).
3. Get Spanish language versions of the main programs:
a) Firefox (done)
b) OpenOffice.org 2.0 (DONE NOV.19)
c) Abiword
d) Gnumeric
e) Rox filer???
f ) I'm all ears...
4. Translate the text inside the Wizards.
5. Translate the text inside the scripts.
6. Remaster the Puppy CD and upload the whole thing to a suitable server.

What do you people think? What part would you like to help with? Let's do this!

Warmest greetings from Peru,

Oswaldo Bellido
"OzzyBB"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hola todos.

Lobster · #15 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 05 Nov 2005, 08:14

MU - see new dot pups and the language support on the wiki has created a .pup new keyboard support program. As you seem to be the first language that is getting organised I have made "isntfunny" owner of the language support on the wiki - so please be aware that what you learn together will be of benefit to those using other languages . . . so in many ways it is worth communicating in English to everyones benefit (where possible)
Ownership of a wiki page means acl's (who can post) can be set - I have set this to anyone . . .

Hope that is all acceptable

isntfunny · #16 Post by **isntfunny** » Sat 05 Nov 2005, 12:27

Hi OzzyBB,

I still don't know enough of Linux like to have the big picture. I know there is a kernel, applications, tcl scripts, bash? other languages? something else?
You may already know this, but depending on all of that, you can have different approaches to integrate the language support, for example using parameters in the actual code and separate language files containing the actual strings for each language. So I don't know.
As Dewdrop said, might be interesting having a look at other distros approach to the matter.
I didn't see in deep your translation of the help, I just wanted to see what were you actually translating, but your english is really good (far better than mine) so I'm sure you are doing fine.

What I meant, having seen the wiki pages is, it seems many people is writting tutorials about the same topics, or the same topic turns up partially in different pages. Some of them are "to be continued", etc. So it seems a bit scary for a translating effort. I think if we start translating pages (wiki for the matter) the chaos will multiply geometrically soon and we'll end up with thousands of unmantained pages for the novice to feel lost in the ocean of information (or disinformation).

I was thinking of 2 approaches for help/support.
1-Documentation, help, wiki, etc. to be located in a repository (CVS or whatever) so changes will be easily tracked and easy to know if an original english file was modified and needed to modify its translation. Topics to be unified as possible. At least for the "official" stuff to be translated (anyone will be free to write on whatever subject but that will not necessarily be translated).

2-I've seen not far ago, a "bugs/help submission" page, don't remember for what application, which was really good. BEFORE allowing you to submit your actual request, it asked you to type a general description, in a few words, of your problem and then it shows the user a page "I found these topics that might be related to your problem, please have a look before submitting your post".
It is excellent because it keeps the user from the stress of doing a proper search, the uncertainty of picking the proper words to find something, feeling lost in thousand of topics, which is one of the reason people just "post" about their problem. This system provides the user with 5-10 topics related to his problem, and that's all.
So that could be a intermediate step of help and support to avoid duplicate topics to get to the forum. Maybe the forum is not too busy yet, but could get in the future.
As one of Puppy's characteristics is being user friendly, I think unskilled IT people is the most likely to flood the forums (actually, I hope that, I hope Puppy were a way to have the big mass away from M$Windows).

My thoughts.

Lobster · #17 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 05 Nov 2005, 12:35

User Sirexel (A spanish speaker has expressed an interest in doing some translation) You can pm (private message) him from this forum

I also seem to remember - way back - there was someone interested in translating Puppy itslef into Spanish or Portugese . . . sorry can not remember which . . . This may have been on the simple forums discussion forum - which I think is only available as an archive - maybe someone will remember . . .

isntfunny · #18 Post by **isntfunny** » Sat 05 Nov 2005, 20:52

Hi Lobster,

It seems sirexel hasn't been posting for a couple of months now, so I conclude is... absent?

I think is fine having people from different cultures wishing to translate, actually, southamerica (argentina and brazil as far as I know) were doing big moves lately to migrate to linux, government and other institutions have gotten (were going to get) rid of microsoft products and started analysing the move to open source, so I think would be a good market to flood with Puppy, besides is where my hearth is

But before wasting energies wouldn't be good to agree on a methodology?
I started translating as a nuts when I realized my effort would be blurred by the diversity of pages with links to pages with links to pages... most of them good, but... Why don't we select a set of official, finite stuff to translate?

One other thing, Lobster, I was trying to find a Tcl/tk tutorial, manual, nutshell, teach yourself, or the like. Do you have something I can read? I've seen O'Reilly have some, but couldn't find any.

Thanks a lot.

Lobster · #19 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 05 Nov 2005, 21:29

sirexel posted his interest to translate in a PM in the last couple of days . . .

Why don't we select a set of official, finite stuff to translate?

Well you can decide what is officially worth translating . . .

tcl tutorials
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/TclTutor

Hope that helps

isntfunny · #20 Post by **isntfunny** » Sat 05 Nov 2005, 22:04

Ok, Lobster, I'll try to build a set of material to put to the community's consideration as official course of learning for Puppy Linux.

Thanks for the tip about tutorials.

I was thinking, maybe I'm wrong but, could be positive to open in the forum areas for foreigners, not only to interact among them, senior Puppy users, but particularly to get answered questions, for non-english speakers, newbies to Puppy. For example, that guy from argentina very excited and thankful about Puppy, maybe he's got more things to say, or to ask, but he's limited by the language even he's a professional Puppy user. The same might be valid to many other people. One of us, spanish speakers, might moderate the spanish area (not me at the moment, hehe), there are plenty of germans in the forum and other nationals I don't know. I think that would greatly help to get the people involved, and to drive the translation efforts.

Thoughts.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Menu in other languages

Menu in other languages

this is my first try

Spanish Language Update

Spanish language update

Menu in other Languages---Puppy in other Languages

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It was me

Spanish Language Update