wNOP v0.2

[tombh]

@prit1: It's lovely to hear you've been showing wNOP off
Mainframe emulation! Afraid I don't know much about that, what's citrix?
As for the missing dependencies, their usually in most Puppies they're just missing form this one! You can easily get them form MU's marvellous Puppy Software Installer.

@earlytv: Well glad it's working anyway! Do you think you'd get better performance if your MB was properly detected? What do you mean by "Intel keeps saying"?

[earlytv]

Intel sends emails and thinks I miss spelled D845GVSH and it should be D845GVSR which they do have drivers for? It is D845GVSH, the bios startup screen even says so. I guess it was used in ASIA about 2004 and now is being sold on our famous auction site. It has the INTEL 845GV graphics chip.
First time Wnop did not seem to set up correct with auto choice but it does now?
When I leave Wnop and it goes to save or not to save screen Wnop changes screen resolutions and my monitor flashes out of range? Why would it do this? This is with live CD mode because I do not yet have a hard drive on this bread board set up. I guess once I have it installed on a hard drive this will not be a problem. The micro is soldered down very low power no fan micro running at 1gig. Ram is 512MB DDR266 and front side buss is 400mhz. The I/O chip is INTEL ICH4.
This is like a early INTEL D201GLY but uses a INTEL graphics chip not the SIS.

EDIT note
I have a better SVGA monitor somewhere and it might have a button to tell me what resultion is sent to it. I might use it to find out what is going on with the save screen?

[prit1]

Tom,

Citrix Metaframe allows you to run applications you have
at work from anywhere in the world or on your local area network (LAN). I am a mainframe programmer. This is the only way I can get into my work mainframe environment.

Anyway I guess when I am at work, I will not rotate the cube to show off .

I can do this at home anyway. Yeah I have installed the dependencies and made gnumeric and abiword work.

I think it would have been good if abiword and gnumeric could have been installed by default in wNOP. (just a suggestion as these are basic office software anybody will require).

[puppyluvr]

Hey Tom !
Due to laptop fan issues i had to set acpi=off in my grub for My Puppy on my new laptop (p 4 1.8g/768mb ) .When i installed wNOP on it I did the same and rebooted ...no prob.. installed your mplayer pet (Very Cool BTW).and several others..rebooted...viola...all saved..x works ...great!!!..
.....So i thought
so i rebooted w/ a live cd and i wiped the old hd install out on the wifes laptop.. then..
i rebooted the wNOP live cd with acpi=off set..installed pets and such as b4..full hd install again..ONLY shut down by ctrl/alt/backspace..reboots fine.. all pets and changes saved (oh and to all you laptop users..acpi=off makes my fan stay on...otherwise it quits when puppy boots up, even tho its set in the bios, and then eventually )
So , as long as i quit X .FIRST and then type reboot or whatever(and have acpi=off), it works great on both laptops.
and yes, we ALL love showing off this puppy
oh , and have you put a movie on the corner of the cube yet!!!!WOW!!!..even better w/subtitles LOL
Thanks dude for all your help and i must say ive learned a lot about my own puppy along the way (now i have wNOP dual booted w/it)
Got 2 Wobbly Puppys and 1 Enlightened one in our Kennel


Puppy Rocks....


"But eleven IS one more than ten"

[puppyluvr]

[iscraigh]

Worked without a hitch for me, with an old nvidia mx440 card. Looks great and performs ok, Great work.

Craig

[kalabaw]

I have successfully installed wNOP on a flash drive, i am running it via a laptop with an external monitor. i cannot seem to change the display resolution on my external monitor to its native 1680x1050. i tried editing the xorg.conf to no avail. the resolution defaults to the 1280x1050 native resolution of the laptop. under ubuntu, i just reconfigure the xserver-xorg and i get 1680x1050 on my external display. i tried xorgconfig in wNOP but i still do not get 1680x1050. i am using the intel driver and i have an intel 855gm card.

one more thing, how can i turn the laptop display off while im using the external display. i can do this in ubuntu using i810switch, how can i accomplish this in wNOP?

thank you so much.

[tombh]

@earlytv: Sounds like there is a resolution change when switching between graphics and text mode. I don't know why this would happen -- I guess it could just be to do with the Xorg resolution you've chosen and that a different resolution and/or a different monitor would make it better. Perhaps post this as a general hardware question on the main forum?

@prit1: Wow, a mainframe, I just picture a huge super computer thing, like on some movie So theoretically yyou could install wNOP on your Citrix Metaframe and it could be run from a LAN on the other side of the world!? I think its good to keep the Puppy ISOs down to a minimum and make it easy to install new applications with a couple of clicks -- you shouldn't have to install loads of dependencies just to get wordprocessing. But the Puppy I base wNOP, NOP, is in release 5 at the moment and wNOP-v0.2 is only using release 2, so I wouldn't be surprised if gray (NOP's maintainer) has made a few improvements since then.

@puppyluvr: WOOHOO! At last Reading between the lines I get the impression that you're happy about that -- don't ask how I can intuit such things, it's just a hunch! ACPI=off it is then. Nice work. Hopefully will help a lot of others in the future too. I'll certainly be trying it on my flatmates setup. Hey and excellent screenshot too! Very fancy. Could you explain what's going on there, I know it's the cube with 3D windows, but you've got some other stuff going on in there too....

@iscraigh:

@kalabaw: I'm glad you asked this. Back when I was first trying to get Compiz-Fusion working on my setup, even before wNOP was a mere twinkle in my eye, I had exactly the same problem as you -- and it plagued me for days. I have a laptop that was dropped on the floor and so the screen no longer works, I have to use an external monitor. What happens is that Xorg still detects the laptop resolution by default and outputs that to the monitor, instead of using the monitor's native resolution. Okay, cutting a long story short the solution was this,
In etc/X11/xorg.conf under the Section "Device" change,

Code: Select all

#Option     "MonitorLayout"      	#[<str>]

to

Code: Select all

Option     "MonitorLayout"      	"CRT, CRT"

However, it may not be as straightforward for you. Firstly, these maybe ATI specific options, I'm not sure but there's a chance. If that is the case then I'm sure there'll be an equivalent for Intel. For me this option appears as one form a very long list of commented-out options pasted into xorg.conf at first setup. I just needed to uncomment it and the relevant string. So the other thing is that you may not have a CRT, you may have a flat screen, in which take note of this guide,

This option is used to overwrite the detected monitor types. This is only required when driver makes a false detection. The possible monitor types are:
NONE -- Not connected
CRT -- Analog CRT monitor
TMDS -- Desktop flat panel
LVDS -- Laptop flat panel
This option can be used in following format:
Option "MonitorLayout" "[type on primary], [type on secondary]"
For example, Option "MonitorLayout" "CRT, TMDS"

The original web page is here.

Let me know how it goes...

[puppyluvr]

Hey Tom
Cool background huh?
all i did was replace the fire png with a screenshot of my other puppy (see "my puppy is more georgous than yours" page 23
placing it as the skybox static image warped it a lot, but it looks cool!!!






"we should listen to us dude, why would we lie to ourselves?"

[kalabaw]

@tombh

Thanks for responding. I tried to edit xorg.conf and insert the option you provided and restarted X. Both displays (laptop display and external monitor) remained black and the external monitor returned an "out of range" error message.

I tried Option "MonitorLayout" "CRT,LFP" with Option "Clone" "True", restarted X and both display works. However, it only works at the laptop display's max resolution of 1280x800. no 1680x1050 still.

[HairyWill]

Thanks for this,
I'm not normally swayed by eye candy but this was fun to play with. It works automatically on my thinkpad X30 with intel 830m graphics and also on my desktop nvidia.

I didn't think that the laptop would cope but it is reasonably quick.

[tombh]

@kalabaw: So was the Monitor Layout option there already, albeit commented out? Because I guess then it might actually be an ATI-only option. You see at first I spent ages trying to force modelines (lines that look like this -- ModeLine "720x576" 32.7 720 744 816 912 576 577 580 597) and although I probably found the correct modeline for my monitor I could never get it to stick at boot time. Very frustrating. So the only two things I can recommend are these --
(1)Trying to force modelines.
(2)Finding out if there is a similar option to MonitorLayout for the intel driver.

There is lots of advice on Google about Modelines, I think you use xvidtune (comes with all Puppies) to set up your resolution, refresh rates and sync then it outputs a readymade modeline for you which you then manually paste into xorg.conf

I hope that this points you in the right direction, there's nothing worse than putting up with something that you know can be better.

@HairyWill: Gert Lush.

[Sage]

A masterful piece of work, indeed. Now you might wonder, with CF, Opera, Xfce, all the fixes and patches, GXine that works on all the stupid formats and tricks that the morons of the RIAA, MPCA, not to mention the BPI poodles can dream up, what else could I possibly request?! One word - Streamtuner. OK - two words - please. This version outclasses all of the offerings from the big boys by a large margin.

Oh - nearly forgot - someone recently described a trick to have BBC iPlayer show full screen. Might be worth including that before you retire to the People's Republic of Wherever, out of the clutches of the world's media parasites......

[puppyluvr]

Hey Tom
Just an update..
Well, so far all three wNOP installs work GREAT!!! Even the Dinosaur!!(but i did have to turn off wobbles to make it run at a reasonable speed,but the cube and stuff work good)..
I have had a few programs "freeze" on the P4 and Opera is haunted but MPlayer works great (gxine freezes up EVERY time eventually). Textmaker works well for word processing..
Start-up and shut-down are good since acpi=off but i always shut x down first (ctrl/alt/bksp) and then shut down..scared to do it any other way..
Sure do love showing this one off..Gets more attention than my Enlightened Puppy.. LOL..



And your wise men don`t know how it feels, to be thick as a brick...

[tombh]

@sage: Thankyou kindly Sage
I used to use streamtuner but I've got amarok going now. You can get streamtuner from PSI. I seem to be remember that one of the directories, Shoutcast maybe, was a bit temperamental, I think I ended up linking streamtuner to another player other than gxine. I know that realplayer actually has much better support for some codecs, for instance BBC News 24 plays perfectly in realplayer, but frequently drops out of gxine. But I think Mplayer is the king/queen of mediaplayers especially now that it is patched to play hardware accelerated video in Compiz-Fusion -- woohoo!

It's so weird hearing mac and windows users complain that they can't play this and that file format - we're so lucky (perhaps 'sensible' is a better word) in linux land.

As for the BBC iPlayer, I've not used it, waiting for some Ray Mears, but I do know that the Opera in wNOP-0.2 and NOPr5 won't play flash video in fullscreen. However if you install thuuxxx's latest Firefox pack (which includes latest flash player) flash plays fullscreen hunkydory. Yet another option wNOPers have though is to setup Compiz-Fusion's zoom plugin to respond to your mouse scroll wheel (goto CCSSM->zoomplugin and setup buttons 4 and 5). Doing this one can easily zoom so that the video window takes up the whole screen -- as good as fullscreen.

Oh yeah and SirDuncan's songbird might play streams aswell

@puppyluvr: Good to hear it's still going well All three eh! Yeah I occasionally get program freezes, though I can't tell whether it's just my old setup or wNOP, the most annoying thing is the show desktop function occasionally sends firefox to oblivion! Yeah Gxine just doesn't play with CF, that's why I patched MPLayer -- in fact it will be completely replacing Gxine in wNOP-1.0

Start-up and shut-down are good since acpi=off but i always shut x down first (ctrl/alt/bksp) and then shut down..scared to do it any other way..

lol -- best stick to what works!

"Ah!" -- The Perfection of Wisdom, Discourse in One Letter.

[tombh]

I'm so sorry that I didn't mention this before

But wow, the real pioneer behind Compiz-Fusion in Puppy, ceaselessly keeps us up to date with the latest Compiz-Fusion goodness And his Compiz-Fusion page is here. Latest versions can be installed directly on top of existing versions - so easypeasy for wNOPers However, you might also like to check out Screenlets and the Cairo dock.

Thankyou so much wow

I'll try and announce wow's latest treats sooner on this thread in the future!

[nic2109]

Sad news from this kennel.

I've d/l'd wNOP 0.2 and done a short-cut frugal install (i.e. manually copy the files to a folder, and update GRUB's menu.lst) and booted up, but my question is "What's supposed to happen next?". And how do I ask it to activate my graphics card? In other Puppies I used MU's 3DCC to install the fglrx driver which then works fine. What is supposed to happen in wNOP?

As far as I can tell this looks just like "ordinary" Puppy 3.0 but with a different window manager. I cannot get any effects to work, the graphics card (an ATi X300) isn't being used, and the C-F Control panel is a mystery. I've changed a few settings, but the keys don't DO anything.

What might be wrong?

The only clue I can give is that when the xorgwizard ran during the first boot it complained that I had selected xvesa (and warned me that C-F wouldn't work) even though I really had selected xorg. If that was true then imagine that none of the effects will work.

I'm sorry to report a complete failure, but such experiences can be fruitful - eventually!

[prit1]

Tom,

Do you know if HotPup can be integrated onto wNOP? As far as I know HotPup is created to work with Rox.

As wNOP is my show-off version, I would like to create a remaster of this with Abiword, Gnumeric, HotPup etc.

Thanks!
Prit

[tombh]

@nic2109: Your short-cut frugal install shouldn't be a problem. wNOP is all in the pup_301.sfs. There is a an extra script run at the end of xorgwizard (called cfwizard) that automatically sets up your graphics, hopefully you shouldn't have to do anything.

I think you'd know about it if Compiz-Fusion was active! So my suspicion is that it is a problem with the ATI proprietary driver -- ATI has had a notorius reputation for under-developing its linux drivers. It's a bit of long story how I've tried to work wNOP around this and I'm surprised its worked so far up till now -- in fact it is one of the main reasons why this version wasn't given the prestigious title of version one.

So I trust you've been able to get your machine using Xorg under other Puppies? And that no pup save files are getting in the way?

Next thing would be to try using the open source ATI driver instead. You do this at first ever boot, when the Compiz-Fusion wizard script runs choose manual setup, then when asked between the proprietary fglrx driver and the open source radeon driver choose the radeon option. Basically the radeon driver is a far better driver but doesn't work on the very newest ATI cards. The fglrx driver is disappointingly poor but doesn't work on older ATI. There is a middle ground they both overlap and I decided that fglrx should cover that ground.

Now if that doesn't work I'll need a wNOPdump which is copied to the desktop when you type wNOPinspect at the CLI. Get one for the current state and another after you've tried the radeon driver.

The only clue I can give is that when the xorgwizard ran during the first boot it complained that I had selected xvesa (and warned me that C-F wouldn't work) even though I really had selected xorg. If that was true then imagine that none of the effects will work.

But then I don't really understand why that would happen either, seems a bit worrying too!

Okay, good luck and thanks for your help

@prit1: I've never used HotPup, although it does seem like a great app. Unfortunately I think it would be a lot of work to get it going in wNOP. Firstly it requires ROX, which isn't in wNOP and secondly it is reported not to work in Puppy 3
As for remastering, it's pretty straightforward, Barry has made a wizard script for it at Menu->Puppy Setup->Remaster CD, you need to be running off the LiveCD for it to work properly.

[nic2109]

@nic2109: So I trust you've been able to get your machine using Xorg under other Puppies? And that no pup save files are getting in the way?

Yep; XORG always works for other Puppies. It's so reliable that I never bother to test these days: it just works. The thing that doesn't happen is the ATi card. The xorg.conf file is built with the correct values e.g 1440x900x24, but only displays at 1024x768 until the fglrx driver is installed. I haven't tried any other driver - I don't know how - but as that one gives the correct resolution and 50fps in the speed test I reckon it's been fine for me. But then I haven't tried to do anything fancy or very taxing.

I don't think that there are any other pup_save file in the way. And anyway, I have today burned a CD and booted from it with pfix=ram, but the outcome is just the same.

Next thing would be to try using the open source ATI driver instead. You do this at first ever boot, when the Compiz-Fusion wizard script runs choose manual setup,

Erm, sorry but that's not possible as it never gets to that point. It always chooses and uses xvesa. In these circumstances is a wNOPdump relevant? Are there any log files written during the boot process that might hold any clues? Or would a verbose boot show me any clues?

I do have some good news, however. It works fine on a different Dell; one that uses Intel graphics. It's seriously COOL, so thanks for your hard work.