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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
wish list for next puppy release
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10750
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr 2009, 12:41    Post subject:  

rheya wrote:
well, puppy is a small OS , so it couldn't bear toomany programs, besides, it doesn't need them , but I'd love it could work with all hardware ( old and new ) ...
besides I'd like puppy had the newest web browsers and mail client and IM and skype .
these are light programs puppy could permit.
last : I'd prefer puppy would make upgrading and new installed programs easier...( skype IS easy , anyway ) Very Happy


4.2 has the latest Seamokey/mail the latest x-chat, forget about skype as default its too big:) but the pet is in the forum software section somewhere, plus it actually comes as a precompiled application when you download it from skype itself, you can just install it because its a static application.
ttuuxx

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 09 Apr 2009, 04:44    Post subject:  

Suggestions for the next puppy (from me and my users) which I hope will be 4.2.1 (bugfixed 4.2)

-Thorough and complete bugfixing process (see below)

-Easy access to additional applications MOST USED BY END USERS from the desktop install icon, ie

Firefox (2.0.0.20 as its most stable)
Openoffice (preferably 3 series)
Amsn (0.98 beta is quite stable, and has webcam support)
Skype 2
GCompris

NONE of these are currently in the repositories AFAIK

-A reintroduction of a chat client (I hear the latest pidgin has a facebook chat plugin?)

-The new prettier JWM 2.x window manager, which also fixes gxine fullscreen bug - will need testing

-Testing of all filetypes (mimetypes) so they open automatically by clicking on them (i.e. .torrent files) or opening from the browser

There have been some positive suggestions about changes to the development process itself from 4.2.0 - taken from a thread here.

Quote:
- Pre-release ticklist - Ecomoney

- Whole Forum "sandbox" section for bugs, with "bug per thread" approach, rather than one thread for all bugs -Ttuxxx

- Recruit "Package use experts" (not the compilers) and ask them to take part in testing before development begins - Patriot

- Have a "Testing Manager" to keep track of the testing process, only release when theyre happy too do so...no rush! - Ecomoney

- Make it easy to collect bug reports (default homepage) - James C

- Keep changes/package updates to only the ones needed by Users - Ecomoney



Suggestion: Perhaps Ttuxxx's "no-bling" bugfixed 4.2 could be used as a base...but definitely with the "bling" put back in (pWidgets), perhaps sans Icewm to create space for a chat client (new JWM is pretty enough).

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10750
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 09 Apr 2009, 06:01    Post subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
perhaps sans Icewm to create space for a chat client (new JWM is pretty enough).


Listen Ecomoney what part of what WhoDo said when we started 4.2 did you not get,? he said something like "we are having 2 window manager to ease the transition into Icewm, you and zigbert both get this confused, JWM is on its way out! not new and improved, Its rounded corners, big deal, and to have a transparent desktop that would be unstable and resource stealing crap again. We can put 2 shovels of crap in every release can we? lol
Seriously the applications you place on top are too big for the repo, basically they are more for your own interest we read what you type all the time, Puppy isn't here to serve your clients, it here to serve the general public, And to kill Icewm for another chat client is stupid, don't you see Xchat in the menu?? oh ya I forgot your clients likes Im with voice, why do think this is your own company and your try to run us for your clients needs? man you have gull.
You want us to host like 400MB compressed of software for like 57 applications,
Firefox (2.0.0.20 as its most stable) <-- mozilla no longer supports it. Dead in the water
Openoffice (preferably 3 series) <--- 280MB-/+ lol ya right
Amsn (0.98 beta is quite stable, and has webcam support) <-- every update doesn't work with the previous version. Stupid application.
Skype 2 <--- Get the static bin and install it, No need to host static archives, So tell your clients to download it and run it direct, no compiling needed.
GCompris <--- Very large and unstable kids game for your schools, not puppies agenda.

Next you'll probably want to rename 'Puppy Linux' to 'ecomoney Linux LTD" lol what a FW
We aren't here to turn puppy linux in your own little puplet. Stop using us for your own personal benefits its so transparent.
ttuuxxx

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NathanO

Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 198
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Thu 09 Apr 2009, 09:13    Post subject: Software  

I am sure this has been requested, but just adding my request for it:

If Pizzasgood would be in a position to keep it up to date petbegone as part of the release would be a big help for a person trying to keep Puppy as small as one can and still add programs that one wants.

I do not need 2 window managers, so being able to remove one of them and all related Eye Candy would be useful. I am sure that other people have other items they would like to remove.

If it could be made part of the package manager would help.

One other idea for the package manager would be to give a discription of what the installed package does such as 'Firefox: Web browser'.
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pa_mcclamrock


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 657
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA

PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 06:02    Post subject: Re: Software  

NathanO wrote:
If Pizzasgood would be in a position to keep it up to date petbegone as part of the release would be a big help for a person trying to keep Puppy as small as one can and still add programs that one wants.

The "Remaster Slimmer" feature of Remaster Express ("RemaX custom live-CD creator" under the Setup menu in Puppy 4.2) does basically the same thing as petbegone--lets you uninstall built-in programs in order to remaster a Puppy live-CD that doesn't have them.

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NathanO

Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 198
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 09:01    Post subject: Petbegone  

Petbegone under the Package Manager would be a better place for one that is working with a save file or an install. Just my 2 cents worth.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr 2009, 19:56    Post subject:  

unfortunately "removing" packages with petbegone does you no good unless you actually remaster... to learn why you will need to read up on how unionfs and aufs works
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pa_mcclamrock


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 06:04    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
unfortunately "removing" packages with petbegone [or Remaster Slimmer] does you no good unless you actually remaster... to learn why you will need to read up on how unionfs and aufs works

The bottom line is that (complications aside) you have a read-only layer, typically /initrd/pup_ro2, and a read-write layer, /initrd/pup_rw. In a simple boot-from-CD setup, the read-only layer comes from the pup_xxx.sfs main file on the CD (or copied somewhere else for faster booting), and the read-write layer comes from the pup_save file. "Deleting" a file doesn't actually delete it from the read-only layer, which would be impossible. What it does is to put a hidden "whiteout" file with zero bytes in the read-write layer, which makes Puppy not see the corresponding file in the read-only layer.

So, if you don't remaster, the entire pup_xxx.sfs file still goes into RAM and it's just as big as it was before, only you can't see the whited-out parts. If you do remaster, though, the files that were whited out don't go into the new, smaller pup_xxx.sfs file, so less RAM is used when you boot from the remastered CD.

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NathanO

Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 198
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 07:30    Post subject: Remaster  

What would it take to solve that 'whiteout' problem? A complete recopy? Why should we force a user to remaster if they have information they use in the My Docs? And is the same true for a full install?
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 11:00    Post subject:  

yes, petbegone should actually remove programs on a full install
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 11:52    Post subject:  

Quote:
Listen Ecomoney what part of what WhoDo said when we started 4.2 did you not get,? he said something like "we are having 2 window manager to ease the transition into Icewm, you and zigbert both get this confused, JWM is on its way out! not new and improved, Its rounded corners, big deal, and to have a transparent desktop that would be unstable and resource stealing crap again. We can put 2 shovels of crap in every release can we? lol


I wasnt part of the 4.2 planning stage, so this is news to me. I always thought jwm was slightly faster than icewm? If jwm is more flexible too (i.e can do transparency if people want it) then my vote would be for that.


Quote:
Seriously the applications you place on top are too big for the repo,


Then the repo needs redesigning/re-working. They are the most popular open source apps in the world and the repo cant handle them?

Quote:
basically they are more for your own interest we read what you type all the time,


Yes, I use them too, along with the most of the rest of the world (except Ttuxxx)

Quote:
Puppy isn't here to serve your clients, it here to serve the general public,


My clients are the "general public", who are yours? Mine like OpenOffice, aMSN and Firefox.

Quote:
And to kill Icewm for another chat client is stupid,


To have two window managers but only one single niche Instant Messenger client is far Stupider.

Quote:
don't you see Xchat in the menu??


Yes, but it only handles IRC chat, most of General public use MSN, Yahoo, Facebook, ICQ etc and only sometimes IRC. Pidgin handles them all. Puppy should "have all the applications needed for daily use (by linux newbs)" - Puppy Mission Statement.

Quote:

oh ya I forgot your clients likes Im with voice,


Yes, Vocally is generally the way people find it natural to communicate, this is why we evolved complex language and a voicebox.

Quote:
Why do think this is your own company


I dont, Puppy Linux isnt a commercial profit making company, and neither is mine. If it was I would be using Windows, Ive made a LOT more money out of that.

Quote:
and your (sic) try to run us for your clients needs?


As I said, my clients are the general public/linux newbs. Who are yours again?

Quote:
man you have gull.


Do you mean "Gall"? If so then yes, lots.

Quote:
You want us to host like 400MB compressed of software for like 57 applications,


Not necessarily, I want new users of linux to have access to the applications they want and need.

Quote:
Firefox (2.0.0.20 as its most stable) <-- mozilla no longer supports it. Dead in the water


Who cares if it works?

Quote:
Openoffice (preferably 3 series) <--- 280MB-/+ lol ya right


Like I say we dont need to host it, we need to give Puppy Linux users easy access to it.

Quote:
Amsn (0.98 beta is quite stable, and has webcam support) <-- every update doesn't work with the previous version. Stupid application.


Then we stick with a version that does work. Its an application that fulfills a need to new linux users. It should be available easily to them, it would be "stupid" not to.

Quote:
Skype 2 <--- Get the static bin and install it, No need to host static archives, So tell your clients to download it and run it direct, no compiling needed.


Yeah, you try explaining that to them. They dont need any more reasons to stick with Windows.

Quote:
GCompris <--- Very large and unstable kids game for your schools, not puppies agenda.


An excellent program used the world over for teaching children literacy, numeracy, cognitive skills etc by people that cannot afford commercial software - so they can hopefully escape poverty. Thats on a lot of peoples agenda....at least those who dont have your personality as a contraceptive.

Quote:
Next you'll probably want to rename 'Puppy Linux' to 'ecomoney Linux LTD" lol what a FW


TBH, its name doesnt do it justice, but I understand if BarryK wants to call it that for historic reasons. He is a man with very blessed with very unselfish ideals and a wish to create something that will be of value to others than just himself. Ive already explained why I set up an organisation for my work with Puppy Linux, and just how corporate Im not.. Dont keep trying to make this false point in various places just to forward your own personal agenda. FUD

Quote:
We aren't here to turn puppy linux in your own little puplet.


Too true, or yours either. Im simply not going to let you turn puppy into something that benefits you and your own niche computing needs. Its too important a resource for that.

Quote:
Stop using us for your own personal benefits its so transparent.


I would dearly love that you would use your technical skills for anyones benefit, mine included. Unfortunately your inability to take on board constructive criticism, include other peoples observations, recognise others needs, produce tested packages, work as a team, share and document your work, maintain a level of civility to other prevents you from being any use whatsoever....to anyone least of all yourself.

Considering all of these things, together with your obvious skill at spreading FUD, perhaps you might better serve Open Source by getting a job with Micro$oft?

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Last edited by ecomoney on Sun 12 Apr 2009, 08:55; edited 1 time in total
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 15:52    Post subject:  

Can anyone compile a FUD filter for the next version? Wink

Aitch Smile
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Dingo


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1415
Location: somewhere at the end of rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 16:02    Post subject:  

a warm wish is this:

from Puppy 4.1 version, I'm not able to use my wireless adapter

NETGEAR WG311v3

via ndiswrapper that works fine in older puppy versions (until 4.0) why this? what's changed?

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synth


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Sat 11 Apr 2009, 16:45    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
Note: this is mostly of interest to people with a box that will pretty much only be used by kids. It isn't set up to be easily switched back and forth between a protected mode and a root mode (unless you enjoy working on the commandline, because you can get to a password-protected root commandline easily). This could be made to work in a dual-use situation without too much work though.


Attached is a tarball containing two scripts: dot.xinitrc and initialize_kids. What you do is extract them, backup your .xinitrc file (it's hidden, so click the "eye" button in the toolbar), then rename the dot.xinitrc file to .xinitrc. Then open a terminal and run the initialize_kids script:
./initialize_kids

What that will do is create a new user named 'kids' with the home directory /home/kids/, copy in some of the settings from /root, and do some slight tweaks to set them up. The modified .xinitrc file will cause the desktop icons and the windowmanager to run as the limited user 'kids' also, so that if they start any programs those programs will be limited to /home/kids and /tmp.

Notice: From the next time you restart X, that will be the default situation. To put it back, you would need to restore the backed up version of /root/.xinitrc and then restart X.

In order to get root-powers, you can either run the command 'su', which will ask for the root password (woofwoof by default), or you can press <CTRL><ALT><F2> to log into a virtual terminal. All commands executed from that terminal will be run as root. Be sure to close the terminal or run 'exit' after finished, so the kids don't take over the system. You can return to the gui from the virtual terminal with <ALT><F3>.


My reccomendation for how to do this would be to first set up a pristine Puppy 4.12. Then install all the games they'll want. Next do the above steps to set up the kids account. Then restart X and you should come up as 'kids' (you can test by opening a terminal and running 'whoami'). Now you can configure the icons, wallpaper, theme, etc. You'll probably also want to edit the file /home/kids/.jwmrc so that it doesn't have any of the extra stuff they don't need. You may also want to disable the option to exit X, since if they did that they could mess around on the commandline as root. And the reboot and shutdown options won't be functioning right because of some permissions issue I didn't bother looking into. If you want them to be able to turn it off, let me know and I'll look into that. Otherwise just open a terminal, run 'su', then run 'wmpoweroff' or 'wmreboot'.

You can change the root password from 'woofwoof' to whatever you want by running the 'passwd root' command.

If they discover that pressing <CTRL><ALT><BACKSPACE> lets them kill X and reach the root commandline, you can disable that feature by editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf and adding this option to the "ServerFlags" section:
Option "DontZap"


Once you have it all working how you want, backup their home directory. As root, run this:
Code:
cd /home
tar czpf kids.tar.gz home/

Now if their home directory gets goofed up, you can restore it by running these commands as root:
Code:
cd /home
rm -r kids
tar xpf kids.tar.gz



One more thing to mention: the 'kids' user cannot mount and unmount partitions, so I set this up to disable those drive icons that show up on the bottom, since they won't work anymore. If you have stuff you want them to be able to access on the drive, you can edit (as root) either the file /etc/rc.d/rc.local or the file /etc/fstab to have it automount. But be aware that you'll need to play with the permissions to make sure they can't wipe out the drive. If it's a windows drive I think all you can do is set it to mount read-only. If it's a linux partition you can set specific locations to be owned by kids (using 'chown') and make sure everything else isn't world-writable (chmod changes permissions).


EDIT: If you right-click in the white-space of a rox-filer window and go to options, you can edit which buttons appear on the toolbar. May be worth removing the "eye" button. Then the only directory they could goof up easily is the /home/kids/Choices directory, which mostly just contains info about the desktop. If you get everything the way you want it, you could run chown -R root:root /home/kids/Choices and I think that would still leave everything working but make it so they can't modify anything in Choices. It will also make it so they can't reorganize the desktop icons.


@Pizza: Are you planning to update this script to enable easy reboot/shutdown for the protected user and easy user switching?

A dual-user Puppy sounds like a great idea.
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computerophil

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun 12 Apr 2009, 16:03    Post subject:  

I wish that Puppy stays as it used to be small, quickly and realible,..

The atands to put too many things into it I feel disturbing espezially there shouldn't change the primary Puppy feeling (JWM) , Seamonkey is a perfect joice (inkl html-editor + mailclient) please remain with Abiword (I don't like OpenOffice)

So the only changings I would like is Java, maybe Skype and a radio.

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Last edited by computerophil on Tue 19 May 2009, 17:40; edited 1 time in total
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